Another employee guitar?

[yowhatsshakin]

I saw this eBay listing just a moment ago:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-1997-G-L-A ... 4aca5c62e3

The years mentioned seem to be off by at least 2 since I always understood that our own Tim GuitarsOnTheWeb introduced the model in 1999. I was hoping for Tim to chime in if this guitar looked familiar to him or whether it is a (much) later build employee guitar. Do the signatures on the pups look familiar and authentic? And what about that 'ASAT Classic 001' whereas is looks like the neck pup cavity got rerouted to fit the bucker?

What do you people think?

- Jos

[Salmon]

The Cherryburst on this guitar is very nice the way it gets relatively darker on the edges than I have seen. I prefer a rich dark transparent cherry rather than the lighter tomato soup red that I also see done.

[darwinohm]

I am suspicious of the condition. Yes it appears to have a route made for the pickup. The output jack appears to have been changed and why wouldn't it have a serial number. I thought all prototype guitars had a serial number but I don't know. The small cracks by the neck pocket would be a concern for me and I think the description is a bit vague and they remind you to review the photos closely. That is a flag for me. I also have not seen that type of string tree on a G&L Asat before -- Darwin

[Salmon]

Excellent Condition!! There is a small crack in the pickguard, a tiny spot on the front near the controls, very light finish cracks in the neck pocket, and a very small ding in the side of the neck.

It's not using "mint" but is it a fitting call for "excellent condition" with the mentioned wear and tear? I know people consider the age but I think descriptions like "mint" and "excellent" condition stand on their own irrelevant to how old something may be. They simply are or are not in a certain condition, period. In this specific case I would not consider something with those issues to be in excellent condition, new or old.

I would like a Cherryburst finish and grain like that though.

[yowhatsshakin]

I also have not seen that type of string tree on a G&L Asat before -- Darwin

Oh, I think you have

That's my ASAT '50 #1. Tim specifically demanded an Esquire-esque, old-style string tree that had to be sources from a vintage part company.

And since the ASAT '50 was also introduced in 1999, I'm pretty sure the guitar in the OP is an employee guitar produced with a left over string tree. Hence my doubt about the stated year(s) for age mentioned in this auction.

- Jos

[darwinohm]

Cool Jos, These are the string trees that were on my American Deluxe Teles and I like them. I had never noticed it on yours! I learn something everyday. I don't always remember it! -- Darwin

[yowhatsshakin]

Thanks for the input Tim. You only confirm what I suspected! Another caveat emptor entry on daBay!

- Jos

[KenC]

Wouldn't the lack of a date stamp in the neck pocket and "birthmark" on the back of the headstock be red flags too? Could these indicate Tribute or aftermarket parts? I've never seen a Tribute up close enough to know the differences.

Ken

[yowhatsshakin]

Wouldn't the lack of a date stamp in the neck pocket and "birthmark" on the back of the headstock be red flags too?

Talk about sharp eyes Ken! I had to check for myself but even my latests ASATs, a Solamanete and Solamente Alnico, still have the birth mark. That makes this all even more fishy.

- Jos

[Salmon]

Does anyone know whether G&L employees sign an agreement not to do certain things with G&L parts like use the front face headstock decals on anything that could be mistaken as an officially sanctioned guitar?

[yowhatsshakin]

c) The Seymour Duncan SH55. Seymour colaborated with Seth Lover in 1994. Would they have supplied a hand signed one to G&L which in turn was used on a guitar from 1996/1997? VERY Unlikely. Keep in mind that G&L did NOT have the SH55 in the factory. I put together the deal with Seymour Duncan around April of 1999 in final design stage and then placed the order for the first Bluesboy's in May of 1999. Then G&L bought/ordered them from Seymour as he already provided pickups for the ASAT Deluxe, Invader, etc. While Seymour has always had a reputation for being generous and sending out pickups for projects for manufacturers, the ones I've always seen were production models. Not a hand done model. To top it off, once received Tony Petrilla (king of service at the time) was the guy who found there was a ground plane issue and we had to modify the bridge MFD to avoid issues.

Interestingly enough, there seem to be prototype Seymour Duncan SH55 around signed by both Seth and Duncan. Scroll down to entry #8 in this thread on the Seymour Duncan forum.

Hey Jos:

I was tired when I wrote that reply, and just noticed it's a 4 bolt neck.
So another nail in the "fishy" column -- Four bolts were late 1997 at best, so that would certainly kill the 1996 year claim.
The more I look at it, the more I see bogus based on claim of year/proto-type, etc.



Tim

All I can say, if anybody participating in this forum falls for the claims made in the auction, they should know better

- Jos

[Craig]

I saw this eBay listing just a moment ago:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/1996-1997-G-L-A ... 4aca5c62e3

The years mentioned seem to be off by at least 2 since I always understood that our own Tim GuitarsOnTheWeb introduced the model in 1999. I was hoping for Tim to chime in if this guitar looked familiar to him or whether it is a (much) later build employee guitar. Do the signatures on the pups look familiar and authentic? And what about that 'ASAT Classic 001' whereas is looks like the neck pup cavity got rerouted to fit the bucker?

What do you people think?

- Jos

Just got back from a weekend trip, so this is my first opportunity to reply on this.

Based upon the eBay description "Seymour Duncan's Seth Lover in the neck position, and the original G&L pickup in the bridge (original G&L neck pickup included). The route for the neck humbucker is a professional route." It's clear to me that it left the factory as an ASAT Classic SH. I also looked at the signatures "on the" SD SL pickup. I seriously doubt that the pickup have these signatures. It looks to me like the signatures are on the photo.
Anyway, I decided to check the G&L Registry and found an ASAT Classic SH without a serial number along with an Admin note (my note) which has a link to a topic on the G&LDP. So I opened up this link: Missing serial number?. Yep, it's the same guitar.

Without a serial number or SO number there is no way to determine any further history on this guitar. I've already commented on this guitar in that post.

I did not see any mention of the photos showing the wiring under the control plate. I would say that that wiring and controls were likely replaced or heavily modified.

I wonder if KenS still reads this forum? Perhaps he can telll us if the mods done were while he owned this guitar and perhaps who he sold it to.

Oh, and just because there is no date stamp in the neck pocket (on any G&L guitar) that does not immediately make it suspect as a fake. Many times to make a good
tight fit of the neck, the neck pocket will be dremeled out to fit the neck perfectly.

[Salmon]

The ebay guitar was sold.

Regarding the birthmark, in that older post the location is pointed out next to one of the tuners. Has anyone ever seen a G&L with two birthmarks?

This is the image from the ebay auction. The birthmark location is blocked by the tuner:




This is an image of the same guitar from Ken S showing the birthmark next to the tuner that was posted in the thread Craig linked:




Here is a Legacy Deluxe with two birthmarks, one of which is located in the same spot while the other is in the usual location:

[Craig]

The ebay guitar was sold.

Regarding the birthmark, in that older post the location is pointed out next to one of the tuners. Has anyone ever seen a G&L with two birthmarks?

This is the image from the ebay auction. The birthmark location is blocked by the tuner:




This is an image of the same guitar from Ken S showing the birthmark next to the tuner that was posted in the thread Craig linked:




Here is a Legacy Deluxe with two birthmarks, one of which is located in the same spot while the other is in the usual location:

Yes, headstocks with two birthmarks were normal from the early 80's up to mid-2006 (or so), just like the Legacy Deluxe photo you included.
When G&L started using CNC machines to cut the neck blanks, they were able to eliminate the upper birthmark (above the G string tuner).
See this post: what is the little dot on the back of g&l headstocks? to see what a newer neck with the single birthmark looks like and how it's made.

The ASAT Classic SH (converted to a Bluesboy) neck is unusual in that it has just the one above the G string tuner. It might be some type of
transisional neck, but without a serial number or neck date it cannot be determined when it was made.

I will be updating that post I mentioned above and include photos of some of my G&L guitars showing examples of the two birthmark necks and
the current single birthmark necks.

Hope this helps.