poor resale value? really?

[cporro]

i'm new to g&l. still looking for that first guitar. one thing that attracted me was the supposed low resale value of g&ls. thinking i'd get a good deal on a good guitar. but i'm not seeing that so far. it's been about 3 weeks. here is what i see.

locally, there are about 6 g&ls i'd consider. there was a 86' asat for $850 in poor condition. pass. then some stuff in good shape that was priced maybe $200 less then new. also some stuff priced at new like, a $1700 Comanche. they were firm about that.

ebay has about the same thing going on. good condition is about 200 off retail. in many cases they actually want the retail price for used which makes no sense to me given the warranty doesn't transfer.. and there are some vintage things like another 86' asat selling for $1650.

no deals to be had as far as i can tell. i have been turned down on ebay 3 times with offers. my general formula is 60% of new including shipping. my thinking is the warranty is not transferable and if i'm going to pay close to new i may as well order one custom with exactly what i want.

if this 3 week sample can be generalized then maybe g&l has good resale value. good for those of you with 10. : )

one other note. they aren't exactly flying off the shelf. i see the same craigslist ads week after week. i check the ebay sold listings and see many listings have not sold.

[Elwood]

I think patience will pay off for you (if you can stand it).
Three weeks to me only represents a window into a market that seems to fluctuate about every four months .
You'll see some deals that will be hard to pass up if you have the funds at hand. I've been watching the G&Ls on ebay and CL for the last 10+ years.
If you look at the completed listings daily you occassionally see a deal that someone snagged , usually because the seller needs money quick or they don't know the pedigree of a good USA G&L. But those deals only are up for a few at hours until a fanatic or resaler grabs it.

For 750-900 you should be able to pick up a nice one with hardshell case with little wear. Used Legacy's are going for 550 -700.
That's a deal , especially if it had the finish and woods you are looking for.

happy hunting,


elwood

[Fumble fingers]

I don't have any trouble finding them ...... I bought my Mint 1998 ASAT Classic on consignment at the local G & L dealer , made a low ball offer and the countered 650.00





found a 2000 Comanche advertised as 2006/07 on the local CL for 700.00 firm absolutly flawless with locking tuners, I took it




got this one from here on the Market place , 1984 Cavalier , firm on 550.00 plus shipping , he even gave me a money back gaurantee if I didn't like it




heres a Mint 1996 S-500 I saw and made a offer on ebay , asking 899.00 and accepted my offer of 650.00 shipping included






keep looking and don't be afraid to make a offer

[yowhatsshakin]

What Elwood and Fumble Fingers say. You'd have to check the listings about every day but heck you can watch some nice guitars. Another thing that has helped me and relates to something Elwood mentioned: I always create a note with the instruments I'm watching. In it I always note the values listed in the Blue Book, for which you would need a subscription (or a good friend ), but also changes in price if something gets relisted. It gives you some idea on what the seller is willing to give up and some indication whether the price moves at all especially for those listings that are up months on end.

Even with an extensive collection as mine, for the vast majority of used models I paid $1,000 or less (even some rarities) so it is possible.

Good luck and happy hunting,

- Jos

[Elwood]

1984 Cavalier , firm on 550.00 plus shipping

Thats a crazy good deal !

[yowhatsshakin]

1984 Cavalier , firm on 550.00 plus shipping

Thats a crazy good deal !

I was thinking the same here.

[Fumble fingers]

1984 Cavalier , firm on 550.00 plus shipping

Thats a crazy good deal !

it was on the Market Place for a week or two to boot !! ..... I was even second in line , the first guy caved in from the wifey poo pressure and backed out ...lol ... it's mine now !!

[Elwood]

It is Home !



I don't use the frames version of the G&LDP , so no link at the top of the page.I'd check the marketplace more often if there was,
I guess I'm way too lazy..er busy ... to add another bookmark to my browser toolbar..LOL

[Fumble fingers]

its home for sure !! ..... some things are just meant to be , I supose ...... the Cav has quickly become one of my favorites ..... at 550.00 I didn't even try to get it lower , I just simply asked if it was still available and patiently waited for a reply

[KenC]

i'm new to g&l. still looking for that first guitar. one thing that attracted me was the supposed low resale value of g&ls. thinking i'd get a good deal on a good guitar. but i'm not seeing that so far. it's been about 3 weeks. here is what i see.

<snip>

if this 3 week sample can be generalized then maybe g&l has good resale value. good for those of you with 10. : )

one other note. they aren't exactly flying off the shelf. i see the same craigslist ads week after week. i check the ebay sold listings and see many listings have not sold.

Like other have said, the prices seem to go in cycles. I will watch weeks of overpriced (IMO) listings, and then all of a sudden a couple of good deals will show up. My impression of eBay listings overall has been that many come from businesses that are willing to wait for a buyer who is willing to pay above market value, or individuals who really aren't eager to send their instruments away "Gee honey, I'm trying my best to sell it, but I just can't go below $5,000 without losing money on it").

Mine have come from big box stores' used inventory, local shops, and other collectors. I'm right around two dozen G&Ls at the moment. The only one I paid more than $1000 for was a near-mint John Jorgenson Sig ASAT, which I just traded for a vintage bass amp. I'd say the average on all the others has been around $700. A couple have been $450-$500 (a 'hog 1981 F-100 last December, a 1986 SB-1 last month, and an '86 Superhawk with some cosmetic issues about three years ago). A few have been around $900 (a pre-production 'hog 1980 L-1000, and a Gold Flake ASAT Bass last year). Most of the guitars have cost me between $650-$750. Then again, I prefer older instruments and am not put off by honest cosmetic wear. If I limited myself to recent guitars with zero dings, I would expect to pay much more per instrument.

Ken

[darwinohm]

I have also found that waiting and watching the local CL can be very fruitful. I have purchased two pristine Legacys for $600 each and a very recent one for $500. I don't sit around and wait once it appears. This week while picking up my Asat Bass, I took the swirl Legacy to show them. Another customer in there asked me if I had purchased it on CL the week before. He said "you beat me to it" as he had contacted the seller after I had already bought it. I had set up an appointment to look at it as soon as it appeared. The good deals don't usually stick around. Wait for the good deals and jump on them immediately. -- Darwin

[cporro]

i am hearing this: "patience grasshopper" : )

i have been checking cl and ebay dailey. must be in an high cycle. but today i see something i just might grab...if it's still there.

thanks.

[yowhatsshakin]

i am hearing this: "patience grasshopper" : )

You will be ready when you can walk over rice paper without tearing it ...

May the Zen be with you

- Jos

[spgl1]

I don't have any trouble finding them ...... I bought my Mint 1998 ASAT Classic on consignment at the local G & L dealer , made a low ball offer and the countered 650.00





found a 2000 Comanche advertised as 2006/07 on the local CL for 700.00 firm absolutly flawless with locking tuners, I took it




got this one from here on the Market place , 1984 Cavalier , firm on 550.00 plus shipping , he even gave me a money back gaurantee if I didn't like it




heres a Mint 1996 S-500 I saw and made a offer on ebay , asking 899.00 and accepted my offer of 650.00 shipping included






keep looking and don't be afraid to make a offer

Yep, I see G&L's at those prices all the time to, super guitars for super price !

[Fumble fingers]

I don't even look at Fenders anymore ..... everything I need is right here

[Miles Smiles]

One thing looks true for me. Currently used G&Ls are offered at a much higher price than maybe about 2 years ago. If they are bought at that prices, I don't know, probably not.

Anyway, Ebay seems not to be a good source anymore and I'm lucky, I already have my bunch of G&Ls and they are already more, than I can regular use.

My first ASAT took me almost 3 years to get, but only because I did not want to pay very much, finally I got a 1994 for $ 615, that has been in 2008. In 2006 while searching for an ASAT, I won the auction for the Legacy and payed about € 500 for it, which is pretty much comparable to $ 500.

[Miles Smiles]

Nice story Tim! Thanks for sharing it.

[HLG]

HELLO TIM. LARRY HERE.
GOOD EVALUATION.
Given the past and current evaluation of the markets I totally agree. With that being said. Hold on to your hats! While the markets on Fender, Gibson, Guild, etc... still in recovery, I believe in the next six months there's going to be a lot of that "sellers" remorse with those that have sold those G&Ls they shouldn't have.. How do I know this? Who am I? Although I don't post very often lately, I've been privy to many things from and since the passing of the late Dale Hyatt, the last partner of Leo Fender. Many things are about to be divulged that have not been known in the past. For the time being, all I can say is watch the market closely and with the information about to be divulged, things are about to change. Tim, send me a PM
Regards Larry

Hi there!

Thought I'd write (probably too much) about the resale value and how I see what changed things.

Poor Resale Value:
Back in the 90's, G&L's were very very affordable. While a few smart players and collectors snapped them up, most players didn't know who they were or that Leo Fender was really behind it with all the original Fender guys like George Fullerton, Dale Hyatt, Lloyd Chewning, etc. And since the name brand strength wasn't the same, a comparable G&L sold for less than a Fender and that's how it got the "poor resale" story. I remember in the 90's I bought my SC3 from a Pawn Shop in Arizona for $275 with case, trem bar, etc. Nice axe! Back then, I was getting Leo-Era ASAT's for $300-$400 on a regular basis in mint condition. Heck even my Broadcaster I bought off another dealers website around 1998 for just $950 with all the case candy, case, even the receipt and payment booklet from the original owner....and he knew what it was!!!!

But the world began to change given three major factors.

(1) The Internet.
Sites like this (I think I joined in 1997 or 1998) were spreading the word. You have to raise a glass to Brad Traweek, Greg Gagliano, and a lot of the guys who really contributed to this site in a positive way. They were collectors, musicians and they all had a huge passion for G&L's. The internet also gave way to retailer websites to continue getting out the word on G&L ~ stores like Indoor Storm, Fat Sound, my old shop Buffalo Bros. all added to it. Personally, as a G&L fan, I found the G&LDP a treasure trove of information. And being able to interact with end users at the G&LDP gave a lot of insight to desires of players. But I have to really hand it to the G&LDP as the match that started the fire and is responsible for getting the word out about these exceptional instruments. Look at how the internet has changed the way we look for information -- I don't think I've opened the yellow pages in 10 years, I just "google it." As more and more folks read about them on line, they started to pick up in popularity. And don't miss You Tube, how many hours have you spent watching your guitar hero and wanting to play like that and have a guitar or bass like that??

(2) Ebay.
Pawn Shops didn't have the clientel to buy G&L's. I'd find them sitting in corners, dusty, ignored. As rule of thumb, Pawn Shops owned them cheap. Without anyone buying, they would deal crazy! Retail stores who didn't embrace them or really understand what they had, treated G&L's as nice guitars but dead weight and would give little in trade. There was another retailer I used to trade with from the East Coast on a regular basis. He'd send me 3 or 4 G&L's because he couldn't "give them away" in trade for a PRS (at the time, PRS had a well deserved reputation in the East, but wasn't as strong in the West so they were slow sellers for me so we'd swap all the time with him). So the scenario was low Pawn Shop prices and poor trade in at Retailers. ENTER EBAY. Almost overnight, EBAY became the world's largest garage sale - started back around 1995 and I remember in 1998 my wife was really getting concerned how they would affect the shop. She was correct in her concern. Suddenly, Pawn Shops found they could sell them on Ebay at much higher prices and prices rose (and not just on G&L's, Pawn Shop prices have continually risen over the years ~ many sky rocketed in prices -- I was hard pressed to find a good deal!). Musicians who didn't like some of the trade in deals from retailers who didn't appreciate them ~ went to Ebay as well. This all contributed to increasing value. (NOTE: A reason I used to give 85% of what I'd sell it for in trade was to compete with Ebay as a seller was paying 10% and whatever to Paypal! Plus no waiting to see if it sold!).

(3) The rich 2000's ~ Eric Clapton, 9/11 and email:
The economy was doing ok. People were buying. And buying a LOT. I remember watching bidding wars on Ebay run all kinds of instruments hundreds of dollars over what we sold them for in my shop. I remember we carried the Danelectro Nifty 50 amp (I think that was the name) and sold it for $99, but on Ebay the bids had them up to $150-$175. Any of the old timer G&LDP'ers will certainly remember some G&L's hitting high dollar amounts like $3500 on Ebay. Pretty amazing!

There was a huge resurgence in the popularity of live music and guitar. Eric Clapton's Unplugged though out in 1992, single handly brought the Acoustic market to all time highs. Open Mike Nights gave "wannabes" a chance to play like they did 20 years ago in a garage band. Electric guitars were a natural "step" from acoustics. It all contributed to a renascence period of music. My own opinion was even 9/11 with it's uncertainty due to the rise of terrorism that people wanted an outlet to "forget about the world." I remember a customer coming in, his wife and him had cancelled a $10,000 European vacation trip planned for 2002 due their concerns from 9/11. Instead, he spent $5K on a guitars and she $5K on a jewelry....NO JOKE! I laughed and said, "well - once the trip to Europe was over....it's over...but this way you still have some very nice guitars!"

Face it, nothing's better than sitting on the front porch playing your guitar until the sun sets ~ or the Home Owner's Association lodges a complaint (or at least that's my experience! ). In a way, even email was responsible - how? People didn't talk - they emailed, just like they text now. Face to Face lessened and I think people wanted that contact, that feeling of belonging to something....and I saw a rise in participants at several guitar forums. So to me, this is kind of how I saw things change. I personally met and still have a ton of great friends from the G&LDP. We had get together Blues Jams with Will Ray, book and birthday parties with George Fullerton, and we would all meet at guitar shows to see, swap and trade G&L's, and tell the story of a killer find -- it was EPIC!!!!

Remember, a lot of folks who couldn't afford really nice guitars as a kid in High School, were 30+ and had a fat wallet and an empty credit card to burn. Thus guitar sales hit the moon! The G&L community seemed to really grow.....even retailers who once poo-poo'd G&L's would tell me at shows "They really are better than a Fender or any custom shop." The tide turned and value rose. And that my friends is how I saw it. My 2 cents (or no sense as my wife will point out from time to time).

While that was the "death" of poor resale prices....nothing stays the same. Things went great until 2007/2008 when the recession hit and had a huge impact on everyones' life. I watched vintage instruments plunge 25% in one year alone. Those "$20,000 Strat's from the early 1960's" were selling for $17K, then $15K, then $12K. A huge "correction" in the stock market, housing market, and the vintage guitar market hit. And while vintage G&L's did drop in price, overall -- they seemed to have fared better than their Fender counterparts in their family tree. I remember seeing an original Fender Broadcaster selling for $125,000 and a '59 Les Paul for $425,000. All which dropped and you'd get a "fraction" of that today. Maybe it's because G&L's got high ---- but not CRAZY HIGH --- so they had less to drop and didn't have as far to fall and hit the bottom as hard.

At any rate, I don't find (and I still look) cool ole' G&L's at those mid-1990's prices anymore. But that doesn't mean you won't find a killer deal, and that something's not lurking in a guitar shop, craigslist, or pawn shop gathering dust ~ long forgotten ~ and waiting to be brought home and loved. And personally, I think that's half the fun!

Hope you all have a great weekend!

Regards,

Tim

[Elwood]

!

You mean that handsome guy on the right?


You are a master of suspense Larry


elwood

[NickHorne]

A new G&L, here in the UK, is comparable in price with a team-built C/shop Fender.
It is a substantially better designed, spec'd and built guitar than the Fender.
It has features and options that totally swing the deal for this player.