recs for first g&l

[cporro]

hi. i'm new to g&l but not new to guitars or music. i'm looking for a "go to" guitar, a "can't go wrong", a staple. like the sm57 is for snare mics, or the u87 is for vocals, or the fender twin is for clean tones. they might not be everyone's favorite but no one would say they are dogs. they have endured the test of time and been used a lot.

i'm a strat player. and i've had problems over the years. not so playable, bad necks, noisy electronics, questionable tone. i've been looking for a better strat for some time. g&l has been mentioned and from what i've read they seem like a good bet.

i do stuff from almost clean to rock. no metal. no country. no blues. no jazz. mostly what would be considered pop, indie, rock. might try some funk-ish rythem stuff if i can pull it off. : )

i would consider an older g&l if there is some type of tone or playability advantage. but i don't want to get into another fix it guitar. i'm not a collector so don't care about vintage appreciation. would also consider a tele style as a second guitar. but need a strat for the trem bar since i do some of that stuff.

sorry for the open question. it's not easy to play g&ls around here (san francisco). it requires some driving, especially if you try out the used stuff on craigslist. hoping to narrow things a bit.

thx

[Craig]

hi. i'm new to g&l but not new to guitars or music. i'm looking for a "go to" guitar, a "can't go wrong", a staple. like the sm57 is for snare mics, or the u87 is for vocals, or the fender twin is for clean tones. they might not be everyone's favorite but no one would say they are dogs. they have endured the test of time and been used a lot.

i'm a strat player. and i've had problems over the years. not so playable, bad necks, noisy electronics, questionable tone. i've been looking for a better strat for some time. g&l has been mentioned and from what i've read they seem like a good bet.

i do stuff from almost clean to rock. no metal. no country. no blues. no jazz. mostly what would be considered pop, indie, rock. might try some funk-ish rythem stuff if i can pull it off. : )

i would consider an older g&l if there is some type of tone or playability advantage. but i don't want to get into another fix it guitar. i'm not a collector so don't care about vintage appreciation. would also consider a tele style as a second guitar. but need a strat for the trem bar since i do some of that stuff.

sorry for the open question. it's not easy to play g&ls around here (san francisco). it requires some driving, especially if you try out the used stuff on craigslist. hoping to narrow things a bit.

thx

Welcome!

First take a look at this post: Welcome! Read This First, as it will help you navigate our site.

Definitely take a look at G&L's website (if you haven't yet).

Check out the G&L Audio and Video Clips!!! sub-forum.
Here's a good one to start with: S-500 or Legacy? Video Clip.

Hope this helps.

[cporro]

thx. i should have mentioned... i've done some homework already. listened to the pickup comparison. prefer the MFDs. been to the site and listened to the audio clips. but no s500? from the site i was thinking the s500and maybe an asat classic too. seen a bunch of youtube stuff...somewhat helpful.

i went through the knowledge base but couldn't find much for my question. tried a search on the products forum...maybe didn't use right keywords...but not much came up. user error?

[Fumble fingers]

Craig gave you a link to S500 verses Legacy sound clip , I wanted a S500 until I heard the sound clip then bought a brand new legacy !! ..... but I just bought a used S 500 this week , so now have one of each

[cporro]

fumble fingers your...username sounds familiar. are you over on brandon's site? do you mix?

so what's the final verdict then after having them for a while? or maybe i should ask in 2 more weeks. i like the MFDs better in that clip.

[Fumble fingers]

don't know of Brandons site .... but my S500 should be delivered friday or monday , so I'll need a couple weeks .... the Comanche is another model you should look at , the z-coils are bad azz

[blargfromouterspace]

How about an SC-2? I prefer the bigger MFD's to the small ones, and they aren't overly hot as some will have you believe. Cheaper too.

[cporro]

can you roll back the volume on the hotter MFDs to achieve something less hot? i never have my strat up 100%. it just doesn't sound good there even for hard stuff.

[Elwood]

can you roll back the volume on the hotter MFDs to achieve something less hot? i never have my strat up 100%. it just doesn't sound good there even for hard stuff.

That ,and/or lowering the pickups a bit help to bring back the definition if they are hitting the preamp too hard.
What amp are you using most the time?
elwood

[cporro]

i'm off amps for now. so it's a fractal axe fx. when i got it it was one of the few that could do a good sim. now they are on version 3 i think. there are a few other companies doing good sim boxes. not many.

my amps have been sold. : ) fender twin re-issue. Marshall 25th anniversary.

[NickHorne]

Definitely try a Comanche, especially if noise bugs you.
Should maybe start with volume and treble controls backed-off a bit at the guitar, as you said.
The Z-coils are hot and bright, but tame down just fine. They are the only humcancelling single-coils I know that really sound like single coils.
Like a hot strat, but without any mud, and no hum.
Immensely versatile once you find your way around, definitely worth a look for the uses you describe.
And yes, G&Ls are great. A small detail I particularly like is the width of the neck at the heel, just a bit wider than a Fender and it feels really good, the outer strings are not so on-the-edge. The number 3 neck is a Fender nut width (1 11/16"); the more usual number 1 is a bit narrower, at 1 5/8. There is also a 1 3/4 (number 4). Have a look at all the options on G&Ls site if you haven't already.

An Asat for a second guitar would be luxury indeed!

[supereiv]

The S-500 is really a versatile beast, and not so noisy, even though it doesn't support noiseless pickups.

[KenC]

can you roll back the volume on the hotter MFDs to achieve something less hot? i never have my strat up 100%. it just doesn't sound good there even for hard stuff.

Most of my G&L experience is with 80s-vintage instruments, but I can say that the older ones absolutely do well with the controls rolled back. On many of mine, there is quite a bit of interplay between the volume and tone pots. Turning them down really changes the tone, instead of just making it more quiet or muddier.

The early G&L Strat-type models can be good choices, if you are open to some cosmetic differences from Fender products. The S-500, Nighthawk/Skyhawk and SC-3 should all be capable of providing nice tone. I'll weigh in if the conversation goes in that direction...

Ken

[supereiv]

the older ones absolutely do well with the controls rolled back. On many of mine, there is quite a bit of interplay between the volume and tone pots. Turning them down really changes the tone, instead of just making it more quiet or muddier.
Ken

I play all my G&L that way, the MFD are better than most of the alnicos I've played yet in that department, because they lose very little brightness when turning down the vol control, it makes a fine sort of gain control.

[patricks]

Another vote for the Comanche!

I've got a Tribute model and I love it to death. So versatile, noise-free and a joy to play. I'd definitely recommend playing one before buying, though, cos they're not for everyone - if you're of the "I want a strat" mindset and nothing else will do, then it might not be for you. If you want something that'll let you tailor your sound in a myriad of different ways, then they're wonderful. My only real advice would be that if you get a Comanche, keep a notebook handy so you can write down the settings that you use for various songs!

By the way, if you want to play a few different guitars before buying and can't find a dealer near you that you like, have a think about coming out to Davis and drop in to Watermelon Music. It's between an hour and an hour and a half drive, depending on where in the bay area you are, but they have a really good selection already in the shop. Mostly Tributes, but they have about half a dozen USA models in various styles, too. If you do make the trek, let me know and I'll shout you a beer

[Boogie Bill]

First of all, I have 18 G&Ls--eleven Legacys; two each of the Legacy Special, S-500, and Comanche models; and my ASAT Deluxe, with a DF Vibrato. I play and sing in a G/B/K/D gigging cover/originals band, and we do all kinds of music from blues, classic rock, country, jazz, and oldies--I never really know what we're going to do. I love the versatility, but it does make for some challenging situations. I also like to go local blues/rock jam sessions. I'm 62, and been playing since I was 14. I've been using Mesa amps for about the last 18 years.

Let me tell you a little about how I use my guitars.

I usually take as many as seven instruments, depending on the gig these days. Numbers Four, Five and Six and Seven: I will usually bring along my 5-string banjo, my DanElectro Innuendo 12-string; and if needed, either Ibanez Artwood or my Taylor 710CE acoustic and last—a Takamine 12-string.

Guitar Number Three is a 2HB, and I have several to choose from. If I expect to be doing softer, jazzier things--I'll bring one of my 335s or a clone (Ibanez Artstar AS-120 or my old Hondo 935). For straight-ahead things, though, I'll usually choose between one of my many Les Pauls, or an Ibanez Ghostrider, or my ASAT Deluxe. I'm still trying to figure out Les Pauls--I love them, but I've been a Strat/Legacy guy for so long that the Pauls feel very foreign to me. The Ghostriders have that great 2HB tone, yet are very light and easy on my shoulder. Honestly, the ASAT Deluxe doesn't get a lot of playtime in this group, as I prefer my 2HB guitars to have the Gibson scale length. The ASAT Deluxe does have its uses, though. Whatever guitar I choose, the 2HB guitar will be used for our BB King, Santana, Allman Brothers, Cream, and most of the jazz and fusion covers.

My Number ONE guitar is a Legacy. I love those bright, pop-py tones. My tone is closer to Knopfler, Robert Cray or Clapton, than SRV's darker, overdriven blues...and remember, I'm using Mesa amps, so an awesome overdriven, singing Lead tone is not a problem, even with the vintage alnico single coils on the Legacy. Most of the time, I live in Position #2 (bridge and middle). For oldies, blues, country, soul, and rock--the Legacy is hard to beat. I could do a gig without the 2HB, but I can't live without a Legacy.

That leaves guitar Number TWO. This guitar is a backup to my #1 Legacy. Now, if I were touring, I'd probably have three or four Legacys in my rack "just in case", and I'd have a backup or two for the 2HB guitar, as well; but I'm already in overload for the gigs we do. I can do most of the 2HB songs on a Legacy, but I prefer the 2HB tonality. (There are a couple of songs I do on the 2HB guitar because the shorter scale makes for easier fingering.) So, the Number TWO guitar also backs up the 2HB guitar.

With this in mind, the best guitar for me in this situation has proven to be the Legacy Special. Legacy ergonomics, humbucking tonality; yet with enough tonal flexibility from the PTB controls to satisfy my back-up needs. This "High Octane" Legacy version also has a voice of its own, and works perfectly for some of the fusion or hard rock things we do; it's great when I want the HB tonality AND a great vibrato, too. ("Look Out, Eddie Van Halen!" Gee, if I could only play like him!) The Legacy and Legacy Special just fit together really well, and I have done gigs with just these two guitars, and never touched the 2HB.

I have also done gigs where I've taken a Legacy and either an S-500 or a Comanche; and a couple where I've taken either the S-500 or the Comanche, and a Legacy Special. All of these combinations work well, it just depends on what your style is. I like the ergonomics of the Legacy, and that makes changing "the same" guitar (with different pickups) to get different tones really easy. For me, in this band, the Legacy/Legacy Special combination works best.

I actually like taking my S-500s or one of the Comanches to the jam sessions, where only one guitar is necessary. While any of these guitars is capable of handling a jam session, the power and versatility of the MFDs is an asset. The Comanches in particular have a way of creating a lot of GAS and guitar envy in the other players; and combined with the Mesa amps, I seem to always get some nice compliments on my tone, even though I am usually not the best player in the house.

For whatever reason, I'm not a big fan of the Super-Strat H/S/S concept. If I were putting a 'bucker in a Legacy, frankly I'd be inclined to put it at the neck. One of my S-500s has a Duncan JB, Jr. mounted in the bridge. This is an interesting take on the "humbucker in the bridge" concept, but I'm not crazy about it. The JB Jr. is short on output compared to the MFDs. I lost the "quack" in position #2, and even wiring it so it went to single coil in that position was less than satisfactory. The guitar does work as a companion to a Legacy, if I'm doing "Hard Rock" songs where I want that bridge 'bucker tonality. But the guitar doesn't work real well for me when used as an "all-around" guitar, as I miss that quack too much. One of these days, the original pickup is going back into that guitar.

The S-500's MFDs have a much different tone than alnico singles or Z-coils. It's a snarly, aggressive tone that's great for rock and blues. The Z-coils are SIMILAR, but not quite as aggressive sounding, and they have the advantage of being noise-free. If you use a tube amp, the MFDs and Z-coils will DEMAND that you use a very high-quality pre-amp tube in the V1 socket; and it will mercilessly expose any harshness, noise or microphonics.

The Comanche is a guitar with unique tones--it doesn't sound like anything else. The pickups can be a bit of an acquired taste, and many people find them harsh, grating and edgy. I use my Comanche with radically different amp settings, dropping the Treble and Presence controls WAY down from my normal tone settings. This gives me a slightly darker sounding "Strat", with tremendous presence and punch--and still with that delicious string separation and clarity of a single coil. It never gets muddy sounding; very unlike a PAF humbucker.

If you want the whole story of how I learned to live with my Comanches, check out my original "Comanches For Dummies" post.

So, what's the best guitar FOR YOU?

If you want vintage Strat tone, run away from the Comanche as fast as you can. If you want something a little different, and are willing to free your mind; willing to let go of old ways and past conceptions; then you are a candidate for a Comanche. If you are looking for a guitar to record with, then I think I would choose a Comanche over the S-500, simply for its quiet operation. The Comanche is tremendously versatile—I think of it as a blank slate that allows you to create your own signature tone

If you really like single coil tones, and noise isn't an issue; if you want a more aggressive, snarling tone for hard rock or blues; if you love pristine clean tones, but want a little more "ooomph" than alnicos, the S-500 is a good choice. I would have loved to hear Stevie Ray play his Texas Blues on an S-500.

If you have ever contemplated a Strat guitar with three humbuckers--the Legacy Special might be a good choice. A Legacy Special can stand on its own, because of all the tonal variation you can wring out of the PTB controls with those hot Gotoh Blades. Changing the volume and tone controls can take from a PAF humbucker tone to something close to the vintage alnicos of the Legacy.

The Comanche, LS and the S-500 are all "hot" high-output Legacys—between them, you get to choose single coil clarity or darker humbucking tonality.

For vintage Strat tones—it’s the Legacy. It's a vintage Legacy with all the right mods and upgrades for the modern styles and the modern player. I used to have a 1960 Strat and the Legacy is a better guitar. There’s a reason why the strat is the number one guitar in the world, and the Legacy is definitely a better mousetrap. These guitars can cover so many styles—the list of Strat players is endless, and runs the gamut from Buddy Holly to Hendrix, Clapton, Cray, SRV, Gilmour—to Buddy Merrill—Lawrence Welk’s excellent guitarist. That’s a pretty broad spectrum of style. The Legacy's upgraded hardware--specifically the DF Vibrato and the PTB tone controls--are major improvements to the vintage Strat.

Of course, there are two other options with the Legacy name. You could opt for the Legacy HB, especially if you want the power of the bridge HB for harder rocking stuff. And, there's a coil-split switch, too. And if you really like the HB and have no use for the single coils, then you might want to consider the Legacy 2HB option. Oh, and don't forget the three Invader models, if you just have to have a Floyd Rose vibrato!

Okay, seriously now, there is one other thing to consider. Say you REALLY like the Legacy; and you are a gigging musician; and you are REALLY committed to the Legacy; and you can't IMAGINE playing a gig without your Legacy: and you are totally fearful that something would happen to your Legacy and you'd be freaking out at the gig because you'd have to play some other guitar....

If that's how you feel about your Legacy, then what you need is another Legacy, as identical as possible to your NUMBER ONE. What you really need is a NUMBER ONE-A guitar. I'm a Legacy guy, and I'd be hard pressed to have to play a Les Paul for a four or five hour gig. SRV had several Strats to back up his NUMBER ONE, as does EC. Maybe rather than something DIFFERENT in your second guitar—like an ASAT, you need to recognize your need for something THE SAME. We all want a collection of interesting guitars; but if you are as committed as I am to a certain style of guitar, you need to have a couple of them in your stable--and that acquisition is much more important than a "Jazz Box" that never gets used. Get your NUMBER ONE-A, and then your ASAT, Gretsch or Ricky.

I love these kinds of situations, as it helps us grow and define ourselves. Just remember to enjoy the journey.

Bill

[cporro]

Definitely try a Comanche, ....
An Asat for a second guitar would be luxury indeed!

that one i did not try. i did try the asat (newer and an 86'), asat special, s500, legacy. so far i prefer the asat. something about it's attack and clarity. blah bah.

ok, will add comanche now. thx. that will most likely be found used.

[cporro]

I love these kinds of situations, as it helps us grow and define ourselves. Just remember to enjoy the journey.

Bill

woah, thx bill. i am def whittling things down. did a lot of playing today. like the asat best. which means i would get something tele and something strat for the whammy stuff i do.

even after playing about 8 guitars today (5 g&l) there is nothing that grabbed me. it takes a while to know a guitar and sitting in a store going back and forth is only partially decisive. perhaps the thing to do is buy used at a reasonable price, play for a few weeks, record, and find out. hmm...

enjoy the journey. is there a pill for that? want tone now! : )

[Fumble fingers]

you can get Bigsby or a DF on ASAT , ASAT S with DF could be a possibility ..... Have you used the "guitar builder" yet ?? ..... you can choose your options and see how it will look




what a GOOD read Boogie Bill !! ..... wish Craig would book mark that like Comanche's for dummy's

[cporro]

..... Have you used the "guitar builder" yet ?? .....

no. you see i'm too scared. my reasoning goes something like this. there is a reason that certain combinations have been around a long time. they work. so i trust in that now and trust in my ability to improve on it less. : )

this is a gear forum so much is custom, moded, etc. but a while ago i had an epiphany. i should have had it the first time someone waved it in front of my face. but me, i'm bull headed. it goes like this "get good gear. make music"

gear can be such a detour. in the end no one likes your album because of the pronounced attack of the kick drum or such. just don't pick total dogs.

and just look at me. can i follow my own advice? kind of. now i have to go to the guitar builder. thx.

[supereiv]

what a GOOD read Boogie Bill !! ..... wish Craig would book mark that like Comanche's for dummy's

+1000

[supereiv]

in the end no one likes your album because of the pronounced attack of the kick drum or such. just don't pick total dogs.
.

it's so true,
but I noticed the music IS different when you play on the "right" guitar (whatever that means). I think that playing an instrument is a physical experience too, and if you have some fun playing a guitar, other people will notice it in your music.
my 2 cents

[Craig]

what a GOOD read Boogie Bill !! ..... wish Craig would book mark that like Comanche's for dummy's

+1000

I just added this post to the G&L Knowledgebase, General G&L Questions: So, what's the best guitar FOR YOU? by Boogie Bill.

[supereiv]

Thanks Craig