Help ID a "1999" Legacy

[xg5a]

Hello,
A few days ago I bought a nice Emerald Blue USA Legacy on the local craigslist. While it's a really great sounding and decent playing guitar, I was getting some sitar noises from the high e string, which are worse the higher it's fretted (none played open). After some trial and error, I thought maybe the saddle had a burr or something, so I took it off for a closer look. To my surprise, the height adjustment screws took a 1.5 mm allen key. (Also have a 2004 S500 with 0.050" hex keys - isn't that what's supposed to be there?). As I took the saddle off, I noticed it's really cut up where the string rests. So, I took the rest of the strings off and noticed all of the saddles are in poor shape. Also, I noticed a casting seam inside (aren't they machined)? Plus the "G&L" stamp is definitely crooked.
This got me curious - why are the saddles metric? The big studs are 1/8" hex, which makes sense. I noticed that the bridge block is chrome instead of the dull black of my S500.

Next, I decided to have a look "under the hood". The neck date is Feb 1999, which makes sense with my serial # and the registry on this site. But, the body stamp looks more like 1996. Even stranger, when I removed the pickguard, there is some writing in the pickup route that says:
EMR RW
S500
179572

is this an S500 body?? Do I have a "parts" guitar?? I noticed some of the pickguard screw holes are ever so slightly misaligned. I've uploaded some photos - let me know if any more views would be helpful.
http://s111.photobucket.com/user/xg5a/l ... L%20Legacy

The frets are decently worn, as is the back of the neck, so the bridge saddles could definitely be just worn out, but the marking in body has me curious. It would sort of explain the fact that the body has not even a scratch, while the neck is very worn, as in started out with a satin finish, and is now super smooth, with "rolled edges" and decent fretwear. Do those markings in the body mean anything?

I do "like" the guitar. Maybe smooth out the bridge saddles and just play the thing as-is? Are G&Ls designed to have parts swapped like people do with Fenders? I've always thought that these guitars are more engineered to work as one piece, rather than a modular design.

Thanks for your help!! I'd really like to get an idea of what this guitar is worth, if anyone has an idea. If these parts don't match, does that make it worthless? Hopefully I didn't make a bad deal.

[darwinohm]

You have several questions and I will answer what I can. I cannot see the dates clearly so I am nor sure but comparing to my Legacy whis is a few years later build in the CLF24xxx range. My saddle screws are not metric but the saddles look just like yours. The string tree appears period correct. The newer saddles look different than these so I would doubt that these have been changed. I believe the S-500 and Legacy bodies are the same so the S-500 do may be okay. It looks legit to me except for the metric screws. May Craig will comment on that.

As for the sitar noise, I have had that on the same string and have corrected it. One thing in the picture that I observe is that it looks like the saddle block screw under the high E saddle may be backed out a bit. If it is, that could be you problem otherwise a correct setup will cure that, especially making sure that the saddle is not tilted one way or the other, meaning the saddle should be parallel across the bridge from side to side. If the saddle were touching the block screw, that could cause a buzzing. Do a search on Sitar noise and you should find a related post. Good luck, it looks like a nice guitar and could have even been an employee guitar.-- Darwin

[xg5a]

Thanks for the info! I just put the guitar back together, after getting rid of the grooves in the saddles, making sure the saddles are sitting flat, and tightening the bridge block. The sitar sound seems reduced, just about gone now. Maybe ever so slightly still there. When reassembling the guitar I noticed that there is some space in the sides of the neck pocket. The high e is a smidge too close to the edge, but there is play where the neck screws go through the body so I think I can fix it by taking the neck off and puttig it back on. In general, how tight are g&l neck pockets?
Is this nomal?
As far as the saddles, I noticed that the setscrews have metric hex sockets and metric threads. The intonation screws look metric too, as the threads are a bit finer than my other G&L.
Last question: I keep seeing employee guitars mentioned in threads here-what are they?

[xg5a]

heres another thought: could the bridge be from a tribute model? I noticed on a post in the knowledge base here that they have cast saddles rather than machined (mine are definitely cast). The G&L online store says that the replacement df bride will also fit tribute models, so I would think the reverse is true.

[KenC]

I believe there would have been a bathtub route for either model (Legacy or S-500), so the differences would all be on the pickguard rather than the body. I'm not 100% certain, but I'd guess the writing in the route means the Emerald finish and rosewood neck. It could have been intended as an S-500 but ended up leaving the factory as a Legacy. The number in the route would have been the order number.

The difference in dates between the neck and body are not unusual. Necks and bodies were built in batches for the production models, and matched up during assembly. There was no strict "first-in, first-out" process, so a body or neck would could sit around for a year or more before it was used to fill an order. Unless there is specific documentation of the build date, it's normal to call the newer date stamp (1999 in your case) the year of the instrument.

Employee guitars are a G&L tradition dating back to 1980. In order to keep builders' skills up and keep the factory running when sales were slow, Leo allowed employees to build guitars for their personal use as long as they paid for all of the parts they used. These instruments often included "off-menu" options, or mash-ups of parts from different models.

I can't answer your saddle/bridge question, as my only BBE-era six-string is an ASAT Classic with the ashtray bridge.

[xg5a]

Thanks for the info!

I'm pretty sure the trem is a tribute model, with the cast saddles. On the G&L store, the USA saddles say they're an "upgrade" for tribute guitars. So, would I improve tone by getting the correct saddles / bridge? Maybe I could at least eliminate the sitar noises.

Also, I see stainless steel "DFS" saddles. Is there a tone difference there?

[Elwood]

Thanks for the info!

I'm pretty sure the trem is a tribute model, with the cast saddles. On the G&L store, the USA saddles say they're an "upgrade" for tribute guitars. So, would I improve tone by getting the correct saddles / bridge? Also, I see stainless steel "DFS" saddles. Is there a tone difference there?

I'd go for the DFS saddles, probably tighter high frequencies and a bit better defintion in the bass as long as everything is tight and properly set-up ( no wobbling,loss of energy,etc. ).
I think you'll notice the difference.

elwood

[baldu]

Thanks for the info!

I'm pretty sure the trem is a tribute model, with the cast saddles. On the G&L store, the USA saddles say they're an "upgrade" for tribute guitars. So, would I improve tone by getting the correct saddles / bridge? Also, I see stainless steel "DFS" saddles. Is there a tone difference there?

I'd go for the DFS saddles, probably tighter high frequencies and a bit better defintion in the bass as long as everything is tight and properly set-up ( no wobbling,loss of energy,etc. ).
I think you'll notice the difference.

elwood

Hi

I got the problem with the sitar sound also. The saddles of my new legacy [high E-B and G string] are slightly grooved, and trying to get rid the noise by changing the angle of the bridge a bit does not help a lot. I had the bridge adjusted exactly like the manual says, but the sitar sound was there and there is less sustain.
When I have a look at the saddles I wonder why they make those saddles flat on the top where the strings are laid on, while on my fender strat the are round, and by other fenders I see grooves in the top made by fender where the strings are lead through.
The fender way makes the space of connection from string to saddle very small while on my legacy the strings probably touch the saddles since the saddles are flat.

When I change the angle by loosening the spings a lot, the noise gets less but it is still there. But this makes the tremolo tension very low and strings detune often. I spent much time to try out eveything, but the noise stays.

Maybe I could simply solve this irritating problem by changing the saddles and use fender lookalike saddles, but since this is a new guitar I wonder if G&L knows about this problem. In my opinion this problem has to occur more often, and there must be a simple solution, one of them is making other saddles, round or with a groove

regards
Baldu

[baldu]

When I take a loot at the new saddles on G&L store, those look much rounder at the top while mine are very flat. Did my g&l come with a tribute bridge?
Since I did not buy my legacy from a dealer I wonder If they would sent me a set new saddles.............

regards
Baldu

[baldu]

And further; the stainless steel saddles have grooves at the top also, just like fender saddles
http://g-l-online-store.myshopify.com/c ... less-steel

[Elwood]

Sometimes the sitar sound is from the worn area on the backside of the saddle, look for anything that isn't smooth there.
The flat spot in front would be suspect to , as you said.

I agree that the design should be 99 percent foolproof, a new guitar might have a burr or mis cast part,
usually some careful filing and polishing will be a good and lasting fix.
You could experiment with different saddles , as long as they break point falls in the same range so you can intonate properly.

good job hunting the sound down, the G&L saddlle design should make your guitar sound stellar, a guitar tech might be able to fix it quickly if you don't have files or fine finegrit sandpaper

just brainstorming,
elwood
*edit
Here's the pics inline:
from G&L store-

The DFS saddles ..these are a little more sculpted


yours (which look a bit more used than 'new')


You should get the DFS , in the meantime I'd (or have someone) file and polish a nice shape into the problem saddle.

[baldu]

Hi Elwood; read between the lines

E. Sometimes the sitar sound is from the worn area on the backside of the saddle[/b], look for anything that isn't smooth there.

B. Yes, that also is the case. They are worn.

E. The flat spot in front would be suspect to , as you said.
I agree that the design should be 99 percent foolproof, a new guitar might have a burr or mis cast part,
usually some careful filing and polishing will be a good and lasting fix.

B. I think so

E. You could experiment with different saddles , as long as they break point falls in the same range so you can intonate properly.

B. I sold me at an internetmarket a set fender like saddles [10 euro's] and the dimensions are the same.

E. good job hunting the sound down, the G&L saddlle design should make your guitar sound stellar, a guitar tech might be able to fix it quickly if you don't have files or fine finegrit sandpaper

B. I think I will change the saddles and after that I will file and polish the G&L saddles in the inside area

E. just brainstorming,
elwood
*edit
Here's the pics inline:
from G&L store-

B. They definitely look rounder, especially at the inside

E. The DFS saddles ..these are a little more sculpted


B. Those are like the fender lookalikes I sold, sculpted.

E. yours (which look a bit more used than 'new')


You should get the DFS , in the meantime I'd (or have someone) file and polish a nice shape into the problem saddle.[/quote]

B. Yep, thanks, I will do as you said.

regards
Baldu

[Elwood]

Glad I could help Baldu,
I just noticed xg5a is this thread's OP, I posted his saddle pic as 'yours' baldu.
Sorry for any confusion , I just caught that.

elwood

[xg5a]

Glad I could help Baldu,
I just noticed xg5a is this thread's OP, I posted his saddle pic as 'yours' baldu.
Sorry for any confusion , I just caught that.

elwood

Hah I was pretty confused when I read through these replies the first time

Anyway, here's an update on my guitar. I took all of the saddles off and sanded out the string grooves with 320, 600, and 1200 grit sandpaper. I also made sure that the saddles were sitting level to the bridge plate. The sitar noises seem to be gone, and the guitar plays nicely now (except for the fretwear - that's a different story, but I know how to handle that).

Although they don't buzz, I am pretty certain these saddles aren't original. Given the amount of fretwear and "rolled edges" of the neck, maybe somebody just wore out the original set - this guitar has certainly been played a bit. Actually I'm thinking somebody may have even swapped the entire bridge out for a tribute model. My USA S500 has a black colored bridge block, while this one is chrome. Can anyone comment on what color and types of metal USA and tribute bridge blocks are?

Let's say it's a tribute bridge block + saddles. Would I hear an improvement by replacing the bridge block as well as the saddles with the USA versions? If so, I'd be tempted to just buy a whole new bridge to get the guitar back to original spec.

Last but not least, here's a photo of the finished guitar: