New to single coils. What's the difference

[phil likesheet]

between true single coils and noiseless, sonically?

In 20+ years, every guitar I've ever owned had humbuckers. Until now. My new legacy will be arriving any day now and I'm trying to figure out my pickup options. I definitely intend on jamming with the stock pickups for a while but if they prove to be too noisy I'm going to want to change. Everyone says that noiseless SCs don't come close to vintage single coils. But then what do they sound like? I definitely want a strat like sound but I'm not married to a particular tone. I just want a change of pace from my Les Pauls.

I've been considering either Duncan Classic Stacks with a Vintage Hot Stack in the bridge, or Dimarzio Virtual Vintage. I've had one person on here tell me those were both crap and suggested Fralins, Kinmans, and Tom Anderson as better options. I would like some more opinions, so if anyone has experience with any of these pickups or has other suggestions, I'd really appreciate it.

By the way, I play blues and classic rock through a Marshall. The Legacy is ash with rosewood. Thanks guys

[Miles Smiles]

I definitely intend on jamming with the stock pickups for a while but if they prove to be too noisy I'm going to want to change.

Congrats for the new guitar.

Always keep in mind, that pickups itself aren't noisy, they just gathering the noise your environment provides. So it may be better, to remove electronic smog producing devices, than making a single coiled guitar deaf for it and some other things too. Your body will e still receive all that stuff.

You always have the option to use positions 2 and 4 of the 5 way switch. In this position hum will be filtered out, like a humbucker does. May not exactly sound as you want, but sometimes useful on locations where certain devices are heavily emitting, like lights or damaged amps of your band mates.

Hum is acceptable for most of us, as long it isn't heard while you're playing.

[NickHorne]

Please don't be in too much of a hurry to change out the stock pickups in your Legacy! They really are very nice strat-type pups indeed, right up with top custom products.
Likewise, don't be too anxious about background noise until you know whether you really have a problem.

If you like the single-coil experience after getting to know it, then the answer to noise, if you really must have one, is the Suhr / Fralin / Illitch coil system.

Not noise-cancelling pickups - the response of these changes too much with string-to-pickup distance, including the playing action as you move around the fingerboard. The one application where I have found them to be acceptable in this respect is at the bridge position, where the string/pickup distance hardly changes. But in general, you're likely to come up against compromises when you're trying to get tone / volume balance sorted across the strings and between the pups.

Noise-cancellers also won't give you the same directness of connection from hands to sound that simple singles do. For all sorts of technical reasons, they just feel a bit neutered to this correspondent, among others.
The hum-cancelling coil systems that I mentioned don't harm your music experience one tiny bit, and they are the right answer if you have noise issues. They sense ambient noise in a very general way, and subtract it from the pickup signal without impairing it. Trying to do this with windings in the actual pickup itself, in the string-sensing area, is riddled with compromises and while some have got close-ish to something good, it's still a long way round to get to a second-best result.

Pickup-makers have marketing people.
Your Legacy pups will be really nice.
Stay cool and enjoy.
The answer to noise, if you need one, is cheaper and better than a tour of aftermarket noisecancelling pickups. Some people may say you need a new set of pups, no RW/RP etc; just not true. Any good tech can wire up a coil system to work fine in a stock Legacy / Strat etc with no problems at all.

[Salmon]

i don't think there is truly such a thing as noiseless single coils. I think most if not all noiseless "single coil" pickups are actually humbuckers that try to produce a sound that is closer to the single coil, generally thinner, brighter, attempts to be glassier (a term which is hard to convey without examples and a strong vocabulary). they can look like single coils on the outside but inside they are doing similar things to humbuckers to buck the noise.

The g&l mfd's are quieter than the alnico's even though the mfd's are hotter. i can live with any noise from mfd's but noise from alnico's bother me, depending on what i want to play. i prefer the neck position over any in between or the bridge. i often have to use the in betweens when the noise of the neck by itself grates on my nerves. it isn't so bad it is just that i like quiet passages.

[louis cyfer]

Please don't be in too much of a hurry to change out the stock pickups in your Legacy! They really are very nice strat-type pups indeed, right up with top custom products.
Likewise, don't be too anxious about background noise until you know whether you really have a problem.

If you like the single-coil experience after getting to know it, then the answer to noise, if you really must have one, is the Suhr / Fralin / Illitch coil system.

Not noise-cancelling pickups - the response of these changes too much with string-to-pickup distance, including the playing action as you move around the fingerboard. The one application where I have found them to be acceptable in this respect is at the bridge position, where the string/pickup distance hardly changes. But in general, you're likely to come up against compromises when you're trying to get tone / volume balance sorted across the strings and between the pups.

Noise-cancellers also won't give you the same directness of connection from hands to sound that simple singles do. For all sorts of technical reasons, they just feel a bit neutered to this correspondent, among others.
The hum-cancelling coil systems that I mentioned don't harm your music experience one tiny bit, and they are the right answer if you have noise issues. They sense ambient noise in a very general way, and subtract it from the pickup signal without impairing it. Trying to do this with windings in the actual pickup itself, in the string-sensing area, is riddled with compromises and while some have got close-ish to something good, it's still a long way round to get to a second-best result.

Pickup-makers have marketing people.
Your Legacy pups will be really nice.
Stay cool and enjoy.
The answer to noise, if you need one, is cheaper and better than a tour of aftermarket noisecancelling pickups. Some people may say you need a new set of pups, no RW/RP etc; just not true. Any good tech can wire up a coil system to work fine in a stock Legacy / Strat etc with no problems at all.

nick is right, the suhr/illitch noise cancelling system (available as a backplate as well, although the regular one should also fit in the bathtub route of the legacy) is a better choice than the hum cancelling singe coils. they effect the tone the least, maybe a slight loss of low end, but not bad at all.

[Salmon]

the suhr/illitch noise cancelling system (available as a backplate as well, although the regular one should also fit in the bathtub route of the legacy) is a better choice than the hum cancelling singe coils. they effect the tone the least, maybe a slight loss of low end, but not bad at all.

it would have to be the full factory installed version because backplate version holes don't line up to the backplate of a g&l, only a fender strat.

[Salmon]

btw, i figured out how to describe the "glassy" single coil pickup sound. try to ignore the references to "quack" in a strat for the moment. "glassy" is how donald duck talks compared to a normal human voice.

[louis cyfer]

the suhr/illitch noise cancelling system (available as a backplate as well, although the regular one should also fit in the bathtub route of the legacy) is a better choice than the hum cancelling singe coils. they effect the tone the least, maybe a slight loss of low end, but not bad at all.

it would have to be the full factory installed version because backplate version holes don't line up to the backplate of a g&l, only a fender strat.

i would avoid the screws and use earthquake putty. it's a different shape, but the back of the guitar is big.

[Salmon]

the suhr/illitch noise cancelling system (available as a backplate as well, although the regular one should also fit in the bathtub route of the legacy) is a better choice than the hum cancelling singe coils. they effect the tone the least, maybe a slight loss of low end, but not bad at all.

it would have to be the full factory installed version because backplate version holes don't line up to the backplate of a g&l, only a fender strat.

i would avoid the screws and use earthquake putty. it's a different shape, but the back of the guitar is big.

the g&l backplate is long and narrow compared to a wide and fat strat backplate. there would be a gap exposing the cavity using the strat shape glued to a g&l. personally, it makes me queasy thinking of using any sort of goop to attach it. from what i have read that ilitch system is best for places with bad wiring rather than dealing with 60 cycle hum. i think the solution is to use g&l mfd's instead of the alnico's.

[louis cyfer]

the suhr/illitch noise cancelling system (available as a backplate as well, although the regular one should also fit in the bathtub route of the legacy) is a better choice than the hum cancelling singe coils. they effect the tone the least, maybe a slight loss of low end, but not bad at all.

it would have to be the full factory installed version because backplate version holes don't line up to the backplate of a g&l, only a fender strat.

i would avoid the screws and use earthquake putty. it's a different shape, but the back of the guitar is big.

the g&l backplate is long and narrow compared to a wide and fat strat backplate. there would be a gap exposing the cavity using the strat shape glued to a g&l. personally, it makes me queasy thinking of using any sort of goop to attach it. from what i have read that ilitch system is best for places with bad wiring rather than dealing with 60 cycle hum. i think the solution is to use g&l mfd's instead of the alnico's.

the ilitch system is exactly for 60 cycle hum. rfi and emi (bad wiring, lighting etc) is best dealt with good shielding.

[Salmon]

the suhr/illitch noise cancelling system (available as a backplate as well, although the regular one should also fit in the bathtub route of the legacy) is a better choice than the hum cancelling singe coils. they effect the tone the least, maybe a slight loss of low end, but not bad at all.

it would have to be the full factory installed version because backplate version holes don't line up to the backplate of a g&l, only a fender strat.

i would avoid the screws and use earthquake putty. it's a different shape, but the back of the guitar is big.

the g&l backplate is long and narrow compared to a wide and fat strat backplate. there would be a gap exposing the cavity using the strat shape glued to a g&l. personally, it makes me queasy thinking of using any sort of goop to attach it. from what i have read that ilitch system is best for places with bad wiring rather than dealing with 60 cycle hum. i think the solution is to use g&l mfd's instead of the alnico's.

the ilitch system is exactly for 60 cycle hum. rfi and emi (bad wiring, lighting etc) is best dealt with good shielding.

what i am referring to is the option of the ilitch system specifically for a g&l guitar. because of the drama and expense involved in having a factory installation done it is less practical whereby switching over to mfd's is relatively simple. g&l's are not valued as highly when they have been altered from stock condition. the ilitch factory routed installation is irreversible. the backplate version of this system is only 85% effective and you lose the in between 100% silence. the backplate offsets the coil placing it the full thickness of the body apart from the pickups. it works best when in line as the factory routed coil installation positions the coil. unless you are set on choosing from the entire world of optional strat pickups out there which the ilitch system allows going with the mfd's and maybe adding shielding if you wanted is worth consideration.

(btw, you no longer have to get a non-reverse wound middle position pickup. they have special options for reverse wound in the middle now).

[NickHorne]

Of course you don't have to lose the "in-between" silence!
It only needs a 5-way with an extra wafer to disconnect the noise-cancelling in positions 2 and 4.
This part is cheaper than some curries, and the circuit / wiring a breeze to any competent electric guitar tech.

[phil likesheet]

Thanks for all the feedback guys. I got the guitar and it sounds and plays beautifully. The USA models must be unreal. The pickups sound fantastic and right now I plan on keeping them in unless the noise really gets to me. The 2 and 4 positions are amazing. Those are the sounds I was looking when I got the guitar so the noise won't be a problem there. The hum canceling systems sound like a pain in the ass. They may do the trick but I don't want to do anything thats irreversible plus it sounds like the factory installation would be a pretty pricey mod for a $500 guitar.

Does anyone have anything good to say about Duncan and Dimarzio noiseless? I've seen people on other sites say they like them (and others hate them) but it seems like the G&L community is all about the Fralins, Kinmans or the Suhr/ Ilitch systems. I'm just trying to get as many opinions as I can, so if you have experience with any of the pickups or hum canceling systems mentioned, please add your two cents.

[Fumble fingers]

first off your legacy has the same pick ups as a American G & L , to me the legacy pick ups sound great maybe even my favorite G & L sound , I have four different G & L's , legacy , comanche z-coils , SC 2 big MFD's , ASAT Classic small MFD's , I like them all , you have a nice guitar , maybe a better way of getting some humbuckers would be to just get a tribute ASAT Deluxe with dual humbuckers to go with your legacy , for what your going to end up spending on more pick ups combinations you might as well have two guitars instead of changing PU's , then when you want a different sound just plug the other guitar in

[phil likesheet]

first off your legacy has the same pick ups as a American G & L , to me the legacy pick ups sound great maybe even my favorite G & L sound , I have four different G & L's , legacy , comanche z-coils , SC 2 big MFD's , ASAT Classic small MFD's , I like them all , you have a nice guitar , maybe a better way of getting some humbuckers would be to just get a tribute ASAT Deluxe with dual humbuckers to go with your legacy , for what your going to end up spending on more pick ups combinations you might as well have two guitars instead of changing PU's , then when you want a different sound just plug the other guitar in

I dig you man. Like I said, I really like the pickups that are in there and I don't plan on changing them out for the time being. I definitely don't want a humbucker sound. Thats what the Gibson is for. I was thinking about noiseless single coils, which I realize are essentially humbuckers that mimic a single coil sound. I was concerned about the noise because I've never dealt with it before. I'm a newcomer to G&Ls, single coils and strat type guitars in general. But so far, so good.

I'm actually having way bigger issues with the trem than anything. Being a Gibson guy, the whole trem thing is screwing me up, particularly with any kind of 2 string bends. I'm looking into either getting a trem stabilizer of some sort or just blocking it off. I guess I'll have to start a new thread for that

[supereiv]

I used to have a Legacy with dimarzio stacks in it (area 54 pro in neck and middle position and a virtual heavy blues pro in bridge), they were good pickups, but not great
Eventually the guitar went original again ! that may mean something about G&L factory pickups, at least to me

If you wanna go noiseless, you could try the blades G&L put in the Legacy special, though they're not single coils

[Salmon]

my legacy seems to be okay with fret bends. it doesn't come out of tune or anything. i do not use the whammy bar much. i have considered getting a whammyless s-500 deluxe. briefly and as i write this i know i will get a whammy version.