Asat Classic Value$$

[Big Twanger]

Hey there everyone,

I've just joined this forum so I look forward to chattin to everybody . I thought I would start with a good question that hopefully someone out there can help me with.

I guy I know has offered to sell me his G&L Asat Classic Leo Fender Signature but he hasn't given me a price yet because he wants to find out this guitars 'market value'. This guy has his own music shop and he got this guitar back in about '91(?) and decided to keep it for himself instead of selling it. So for all this time its been sitting brand new in its case out the back of his shop amongst the cobwebs. Its a sunburst colour with Leo Fender written on the upper body, its definitely not a commemorative leo fender model as it doesn't have that on the headstock.

I've phoned most of the major music shops here in Oz (incl the G&L dealers) to get an approximate $ value of this guitar and they have all told me that it would be worth no more than what a new Asat classic costs today. I found this interesting because I thought the Leo signature added some value on it. I rang a few big guitar collectors here and they all said that this guitar wasn't really that collectable as they weren't that rare and not that old.

I'm not buying this guitar as a collector but as a player. I've actually played this particular Asat Classic once many years ago and it is THE best tele I've ever heard. I own 4 Fender teles now and owned a few others and this G&L is far better. I'm amazed this guy still has it!

So I thought I would put the question to you guys in the G&L community who might know the what these guitars are worth today. I've seen a couple of Leo Signatures on ebay and they ranged from about US$1500 - 2000 which I thought was cheap.

Can someone help me out?? Many thanks in advance!

[Aussie]

Hey Twanger ... how's things on the East Coast! Hope you weren't too close to Ului - I have family up in Aiirlie Beach.

Undoubtedly there are a lot of folks here who will have more of an idea than I, but I did see a green 92 Classic Signature on Ebay USA a couple of weeks back that didn't sell with a BIN price of US$700.

cheers, Robbie

[Jim Sams]

Hi,
I wouldn't pay a ton extra for the Leo signature.
If you look at ebay this very second, there a tons of ASAT Classics with high BIN prices, but watch them....generally they don't sell.
You can buy ASAT classics in the US$ 750 range pretty easily (over here) I would think.

[SJG]

A Leo era Asat Classic Signature new in the box. $1300-$1500

[yowhatsshakin]

For comparison, see this post thread on prices of an early ASAT with wide MFD's. The Vintage Guitar 2010 Price Guide does not have a dedicated entry for a Classic Sig., but I gather that the price for an early ASAT would constitute an upper limit for the price of a Classic Sig. In my estimation Aussie is not far from the mark.

[SJG]

The Vintage Guitar Price Guide is so far off on the G&Ls it's not even funny!
Look up in the Price guide what it says an excellent condition X-body interceptor or G200 or SC1 or SC2 or early Comanche VI or Nighthawk all in excellent condition mind you, supposedly goes for. I'll take every one you have for those prices. Lets not forget about what it says for the JD5. $2K give me a break.
Theres an obvious agenda going on with Alan Greenwood and Gil Hembree for the time being. It'll show itself eventually. Look for Gxxxxx of Nashville to be part of it!

[yowhatsshakin]

Theres an obvious agenda going on with Alan Greenwood and Gil Hembree for the time being. It'll show itself eventually. Look for Gxxxxx of Nashville to be part of it!

From your post it is not entirely clear to me whether you think GL's are under- or overpriced, but I assume the former. I am a collector (not a reseller) and bought 10 ASAT's over the last year and a half. All of them, with the exception of the Commemorative for which I paid only slightly more, were purchased at or below the prices quoted in the Price Guide. To me this seems to indicate that these prices are indeed what one might expect a guitar in good to excellent condition to go for. Beyond that, it seems these are also considered to be reasonable prices by sellers irrespective whether they are stores or individuals on eBay dealing in vintage guitars. The zeroth law of economics holds true in this arena too: the price is set by supply and demand.

And yes, I have seen G&L' s listed on eBay for which up to twice the price was being asked. The $3,595.- Broadcaster on eBay? Not for me, thanks. Certainly not, if at least 2 others were sold on eBay for half that asking price. The seller is entitled to ask the price they want. If it doesn't sell that should send them a signal that the market is not bearing these prices. The economic collapse is most certainly noticeable here too. I have seen a number of listings on eBay where over the course of many months, sometimes a year, the price for a particular guitar was lowered by say $100 every 3 months until somebody bites (which was in one case me).

I'm not here to defend Greenwood and Hembree but it would be hard for me to accept they would have an agenda. As far as I understand, they ask participating dealers to provide prices of sold inventory to get an idea of the going rate for an item. The current 2010 guide contains the article also published in Vintage Guitar on the index they use and how the current economy affected that. Does that mean no collusion is possible? No, likely all dealers will look how these prices affect what they want to pay for an instrument and profit margins etc. But as a consumer, you will know what to expect when you look online or step into a store and will be able to make an informed decision.

And as an example what I personally find insane in terms of price point: while I was writing this mail I noticed the following eBay listing added this very morning. A beautiful set of an ASAT bass and ASAT DeLuxe with spalted maple top as a package deal for $4,900.-. Nice isn't it! Fairly priced for these instruments? Maybe in somebody's mind, but not mine. Why? These guitars were listed on eBay just a couple of months ago as separate listings. The guitar sold for about $1,575 and the bass for a little more. How do I know? I was barely outbid on the guitar. I wrote my friend Bryan Griffith (Griff on this board) at the time that I was happy they both went to the same person in that the instruments would stay together. You can determine for yourself whether a 60% profit margin is reasonable or if my words would have been that kind knowing that at the time.

[SJG]

Interesting take on Ebay, economics, and buyer/collectors in general. It appears as though you are a seasoned Asat collector over the past year or so. Very cool guitars indeed. Have a couple myself. But back to the Vintage Guitar Price Guide. The Guide is an excellent source of information as far as identifying models, years, brands etc. But they don't have a clue when it comes to the G&Ls. Heres a short list of the guitars I previously mentioned plus the 88-91 Asat sigs and what the guide says they have been and what they are worth in the years 2004-2010. Misplaced my 2005 somewhere, I'll have to look for it. Negligible changes on some of the most collectable G&L guitars.The prices are for guitars in excellent condition per the price guides description in the introduction. The G200 since 2004 has never been worth more than $1300? (in excellent condition yet) and the 1st style X-body Interceptor has never been worth more than $1400? (again in excellent condition) Can you see a pattern here? Although not an economic indicator, you would think these numbers would show some sort of economic pattern.

[yowhatsshakin]

But back to the Vintage Guitar Price Guide. The Guide is an excellent source of information as far as identifying models, years, brands etc. But they don't have a clue when it comes to the G&Ls. Heres a short list of the guitars I previously mentioned plus the 88-91 Asat sigs and what the guide says they have been and what they are worth in the years 2004-2010. Misplaced my 2005 somewhere, I'll have to look for it. Negligible changes on some of the most collectable G&L guitars.The prices are for guitars in excellent condition per the price guides description in the introduction. The G200 since 2004 has never been worth more than $1300? (in excellent condition yet) and the 1st style X-body Interceptor has never been worth more than $1400? (again in excellent condition) Can you see a pattern here? Although not an economic indicator, you would think these numbers would show some sort of economic pattern.

Point well taken. And we both should remember that you, I, and many other members on this board value G&L's highly. Unfortunately, we are not representative for the general market in vintage guitars which, as we all know, value Gibsons and Fenders higher although many of the instruments are qualitatively inferior to G&L's from the same period. If we assume that the price in the guide is set by supply and demand, than we also have to accept that as long as no instruments are sold to set new price points, the best yardstick available is the one you had. And hence price points for the previous year are reprinted. This may for instance explain the numbers listed for the Nighthawk where it is entirely possible no new inventory was available and/or sold between 2005 and 2008, whatever became available in 2009 came with a price drop due to higher supply and/or lower demand, only to see an resurgence in 2010 for opposing reasons. (Note: actually we have to subtract at least a year from all the years listed since the 2010 guide only includes data up to give and take July 2009)

To me it is all very comparable to watching the 'market value' of your house or retirement portfolio. In the end the value is set by what you can command to get at the point of sale. Up to that point it is all funny money. But I bet you that if all of a sudden all sparsely available G-200's sell for $2,200 and up, this will be reflected in the next issue of the guide. But I grant you this. I think with new markets like eBay and Craig's List getting more prominent, actual sales price data collected from these sites should be included to derive the market value listed in the guide.

[MrRoundel]

The Vintage Guitar Price Guide is so far off on the G&Ls it's not even funny!
Look up in the Price guide what it says an excellent condition X-body interceptor or G200 or SC1 or SC2 or early Comanche VI or Nighthawk all in excellent condition mind you, supposedly goes for. I'll take every one you have for those prices. Lets not forget about what it says for the JD5. $2K give me a break.
Theres an obvious agenda going on with Alan Greenwood and Gil Hembree for the time being. It'll show itself eventually. Look for Gxxxxx of Nashville to be part of it!

I used to run into the same situation when I was collecting pocket watches. There was a price guide, known as "THE book", that was fairly accurate on watches that had a lot f comparable sales. Ones that don't have as many can be way off. When my friend, who sold watches, was told that he was asking too much for a watch, according to "THE book", he'd say, "Then buy it from THE book". There were conspiracy theories regarding the pricing of the watches they were buying, that they purposely kept the prices low until they had their "position" in them. Stranger things do happen.

On the original question of value of a mint ASAT Signature model, I believe that it could be in the range of $900-1100, providing it's in excellent shape, and comes with OHSC. Cherry burst is one of the nicer colors for G&L's, so the color is a plus. I believe that the green Classic that didn't sell, didn't do so on Ebay because it was pulled before the auction ended. Green guitars are also a slow selling color as a rule. Guitars that were made when Leo Fender was alive, and running G&L, have the associated premium in value. The Signature models weren't around long, due to Fender Music's lawsuit filed to stop Leo from using the Fender name. It sounds funny, but he must have sold the rights to use it, certainly the Fender Co. believed so, on future music related ventures.
So, the guitar is what we call either a "Leo era" or "Pre-BBe" G&L, with the added desirability of the signature, 3-bolt micro-tilt neck, glossy neck, and Leo-infused mojo. If it's in new condition, I believe you'd be better off with the Leo-era guitar. You've got more value-holding insurance by having a Leo era guitar than you do a newer, BBE comparable model. Just my two centavos.

[Big Twanger]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts on this. Hey Robbie on the west cost - no cyclone here mate, she was a bit further north from me, turned out to be a bit of a fizzer anyhow lol.

I honestly previously thought this guitar would be worth much more than what you have all stated here. At the moment I own 4 fender teles - a tele plus, a MIM special and 2 US standards and as fond as I am to especially the tele plus and MIM, I could easily say this Leo Sig has a better twang and ring to it - its simply a super guitar. But having said that, I have no experience in the value of G&L's at all because to be honest, they aren't that big here in oz (IMHO). And its strange that the big music dealers I shop with don't want to know about G&L Asats as a trade yet they all think they are a fantastic tele and quite often better than the fenders.

The guy I'm thinking of buying this from is a major axe collector and he doesn't hold on to a guitar for no reason. When I spoke to him initially the other day he told me if I could find a Leo Sig for under 3 grand I should snap it up! Maybe he's gonna get a rude shock at the realistic value of this guitar.....but its a great guitar and deserves to be played, not spend its life in a case!

For interests sake, I've heard about how rare the 'Commemorative' Leo Sigs are - does anyone know what these babies are worth??

[yowhatsshakin]

For interests sake, I've heard about how rare the 'Commemorative' Leo Sigs are - does anyone know what these babies are worth??

Last one I know of went on eBay for a BIN of US$2,695. The Price Guide lists 2 entries: the ASAT Classic Commemorative for US$2,000-$2,500 and the Commemorative for US$1,950-$2,350. I believe the latter is the bass but am not sure about that since in both cases the listing states that only 350 were made which is only true for the guitar (although George Fullerton in "Leo & Me" claims it is only 250 Classics). Nevertheless, it could be a double entry.

[MrRoundel]

Additional thoughts on value: Of course we are speaking in American dollars, so they'd have to be converted. What's the Aussie buck, 90% of $1 American? In that case, $1,200 wouldn't be outside the realm of possibility. Also, I saw a guitar sell on Ebay about 5 months ago that sounds like the perfect comparable sale. It went for the BIN with about 3 days left in a one week auction, for what I believe was $1,295. Here in the U.S.A., April 15 of every year brings the tax man's curse to the value of many things until the day passes, and people get over the shock. All other things being equal, no country has its economy collapse, etc., the value will probably be back up at that $1,295 by June. It happens every year. Here, it's a great time to be a buyer, but a frustrating one for sellers.

[blargfromouterspace]

Hi Big Twanger, and hello to all forumites.

I'm in Melbourne, and I just bought a '97 ASAT Classic for $1200 on ebay. At the moment there are some absolute pearlers on there - in particular an ASAT Special Deluxe for $1350 BIN with a best offer option!!! There's a '94 ASAT Classic S on there for $1000 BIN. If you're in the market for a G&L I think you should grab it! Total bargains, both of them. I've brought two brand new ones in from the states and the most recent (an optioned out Bluesboy) cost me just over $3000 with shipping and customs fees.

The value of second hand G&L's astounds me, they are heavily undervalued, especially, it seems, in Australia. A Mexican Fender will cost you about $1200 and is a far, far lesser instrument. It's down to the absence of the Fender brand on the headstock. IMO the only thing Fender instruments have over a G&L equivalent is resale value.

If you want to buy a players guitar they are definitely the way to go. As a collector, unless you're really well heeled or have a genuine love for the instruments, sticking to bigger brand names would be a more sensible move.

Now go and buy that Special Deluxe before I do! (and no, it isn't my own listing!)
Jamie

[knotty]

It is truely unfortunate, to many dealers G&Ls are still looked as a well made "off brand". I saw a 3 bolt Legacy recently at a shop for $700.

Craig