G&L from the beginning

[Fred Finisher]

Greetings, I will begin with a brief bio about why I am so interested in G&L instruments. In February 1978, after a semester of college that I was less than enthusiastic about, I applied for a job at CLF Research because the summer before I worked for CBS Musical instruments in the finish department working on Fender guitars. The general foreman, Lloyd Chewning hired me on the spot because of my employment with Fender the previous year. At the time, there were two instruments being made in this plant, the Music Man Sting Ray Bass and Guitar. Soon after came the Sabre line before the G&L changeover took place in 1980.
We were creating history and most of us had no clue. To many it was a job, to others it was a career and to many of us it was a passion to create excellent instruments in a time when the american guitar market was at an all time low.
More later on the beginnings of G&L, for now let's talk about the Santa Fe Chicken sandwich I had during my working lunch with the owner of the company I now work for. Although it was a bit messy, it was well made and presented well. It would have done well in one of those insipid cooking shows that my wife enjoys watching. (No wonder this country is full of overweight people, we have made a past time of competitive overeating.) I did attempt to order the California turkey burger but the avocadoes were not ripe.
As far as a non G&L topic goes, I plan to be on the water soon floating on a raft enjoying the beginning of Summer on the lake right up the road from where I work.
So as not to bore anyone, I will leave today's entry short and see what kind of discussion follows.
Fred

[sickbutnottired]

Fred, Thanks for jumping in.

I am very interested in your posts. All I now about the G&L/Music Man situation I have read on here and sights linked from here.

I own a 1981 F-100, that was my first real guitar, and I still have it!

Can't think of a question right now, 'cause I need to get back to work.

jg

[JagInTheBag]

Love to hear an insiders perspective on G&L's origin story. Thank you for sharing Fred!

Lunch today (so far) is a half a pot of Caribou LaManita Peaberry Coffee. I suppose I will radi the fridge for leftovers when my stomach begins the cafeine quivers!

For me, summer has been lunched as I work into the rotation, playing in the band during the Sunday contemporary service. I a real stretch since it is six new songs each week with one rehersal the previous Tuesday. But, that is the only way to get the chops up, PLAY!
Also rolling out this week to Sioux Falls, SD for a huge car show held this weekend. Bringing the whole famn damily!

[westsideduck]

Hi Fred, I'm ready for a history lesson! I take it you worked in the finishing department, can you explain how the candy lemon finished was applied, and what materials were used?
Depending on the light source, it could look real lemon like or a rich gold.




another finish question regarding the flip flop paint colors, how were these achieved?

[Fred Finisher]

Hello Westside, The finish on the candy guitars was done by applying a gold base coat first. The product we used was supplied as a powder and it was added to a clear base. This was of course nitrocellulose at first. Once the base coat was applied, the candy yellow or red was sprayed over it until the desired depth of color was achieved. This was not as easy as it looks because a little too much or too little and it would come out very blotchy. I hope this helps,
Fred

[blargfromouterspace]

Hey Fred, looking forward to the stories this week Thanks for taking on LR duties.

Competitive overeating is pretty gross, though I admit I do enjoy that show "Man Vs Food" a bit too much - some of that stuff you guys eat is incredible

[Fred Finisher]

I missed part of Westsideducks question about the flip flop paints. Prior to '86 when I moved to Georgia, we had only begun to experiment with pearl paint additives. I spoke to Gabe D. recently and he told me he had one of those early experimental finishes. By adding pearl blue for instance over a cherry red, the result when the guitar is put into the right light is a purple hue. For a couple of the clients I did work for in my personal shop, I shot candy colors over a pearlescent design that would only appear when you put the guitar in the right angle. Since the early days of pearls there have been other types of interference additives that do more of the flip flop effect as seen on cars. Hope this helps,
Fred

[zapcosongs]

Greetings, Fred. I'm Ed. I am a moron.

Your experience and perspective bodes well for a great week. Thank you in advance.

Sorry about the avocado situation. Few things in life are as wonderful as a perfectly ripe avocado; few things are as sorry as as an unripe one. There is a lesson here, but it probably escapes me entirely, as is usually the case. Alas.....

Hey, to the extent you're able to fill us in on the (presumed) nitro/poly wars, I for one would be quite interested. Thank you and welcome! - ed

[yowhatsshakin]

Hi Fred,

Thanks for taking up LR duties. Like those above, I am also very much interested in the early days and the transition from CLF Research to G&L proper. Will await your LR's with anticipation this week.

Thanks again,

- Jos

[LeoFThe Champion]

G'day Fred , I have just had beef casserole on a rainy, cold Australian day.
I am interested please in how many hours it took to finish a G & L guitar and bass?
Did it take longer to do a sunburst or solid color.
Thanks I am very interested in your stories this week
Cheers,
Anthony

[louis cyfer]

for lunch it was sushi, salmon and tuna like most days, followed with coffee and using protein powder as creamer. 55 gr protein, 40 gr carbs and 10 gr fat.

can't wait to hear all the early stories.

[Fred Finisher]

Ed, I doubt you are a moron. You have enough sense to enjoy G&L products. I believe it was Will Rogers who said: "We are all ignorant, just in different subjects".
I understand there has been some confusion as to what was used for finish in the early days. In the very beginning, 1976, polyester was used for the finish on the Music Man instruments. It did not last long because the finishes crackled. When I came on board in Feb. '78, we were using only nitro on the bodies and necks. This remained this way until '85 when we began to spray the base coats with a two part polyurethane. The top coats, colors and necks were nitro. It was after I left that the topcoats changed to a poly also. I left in Dec. '85. Any G&L instruments before that did not have poly topcoats.
Painting a sunburst took longer than a solid color because it required several steps to complete. As far as the topcoats are concerned, a rack held 28 bodies and when you were in a groove you could spray a clear coat on all 28 in 15 minutes. Colors varied considerably, black being the easiest, sunburst and candies taking the longest.
Hope this helps,
Fred

[darwinohm]

Fred, great report and I am looking forward to more on the painting history. The paint products have evolved over the years and I think the Polys are hard to beat! Glad you stepped up!-- Darwin

[Jaystrings]

Howdy Mr. Fred
I've had 2 factory tours & totally enjoyed them both. It was awesome to be in Leo's office and to speak with a number of people who had worked there at or soon after the beginning of G&L production. I also have enjoyed meeting with Dale Hyatt and George Fullerton several times - both in person & over phone calls. Both have similar - but differing - remembrances of those early years & what it was like to work with Leo to get a fledgling guitar company into black ink.

I also value every word you're willing to put out here for us. Please continue..... & thanks.

Jay

[Fred Finisher]

Thanks Jay, I will try to bring a little inside perspective to the table here. This could be a lot of fun.
Fred

[javicleojavi]

Hi Fred, Hi everybody out there, i just bought a 1978 natural Sabre I guitar (ONE), and was wondering how many of these beauties have been built. Im a big fan of Fender instruments, but this guitar is by far the best ive got, after my Tele and strato.

Thanks for the info


Javi (from Uruguay-South America)

[Fred Finisher]

Hello Javi,
You are fortunate to have one of the earliest Sabres made. You will need to post a picture of it so that it can be verified that it exists. Around here, instruments do not exist until they are posted for verification. If you are comfortable removing the neck, pictures of the heel of the neck and the body pocket are also great for reference and verification of age. Just be careful not to damage the finish because the neck and body can stick together over time. I am not sure how many Sabres were made before we switched over to G&L but there are some very knowledgeable people on here that can answer that better than I can. We all look forward to seeing this guitar,
Fred

[Craig]

Hi Fred, Hi everybody out there, i just bought a 1978 natural Sabre I guitar (ONE), and was wondering how many of these beauties have been built. Im a big fan of Fender instruments, but this guitar is by far the best ive got, after my Tele and strato.

Thanks for the info


Javi (from Uruguay-South America)

Hello,

Our main focus here is on G&L instruments which came after Music Man. You aren't the first to ask about this, see: New member seeking MusicMan Sabre I info.
Hopefully this will point you in the right direction to go regarding your MM information quest.

Hope this helps.

[Lacking Talent]

Great thread, Fred!

[javicleojavi]

Thanks Fred for your answer, i bought the guitar and send it to a friends house in NY City, will get there in September, as im actually in Uruguay. However, ive got some pictures to show you it exists

How can i upload the pictures here?, got them in my desktop...

Thanks again, just trying to get some quality info about this model

Javi

[javicleojavi]

Hi Craig, thanks for your post, i been there before posting, because i want to know how many of sabre 1 guitars were built, ive also read that serial numbers and tracking this guitar isnt easy...

Javi

[Craig]

Thanks Fred for your answer, i bought the guitar and send it to a friends house in NY City, will get there in September, as im actually in Uruguay. However, ive got some pictures to show you it exists

How can i upload the pictures here?, got them in my desktop...

Thanks again, just trying to get some quality info about this model

Javi

See Tutorial: Posting photos.

[bassman]

Fred,
I am always interested in the stories you tell about the early G&L factory.

I have two L-1000s from 1980 and the biggest problem I have is the color of the case lining leeches into the neck nitro finish wherever the basses touch the case.

Was this problem ever discussed at the factory or did this not show up for 10 years?

Thanks for any comment you have.

-Bassman

[Fred Finisher]

Bassman,
The problem you're describing is one that usually took a long time to happen. The nitro finishes were particularly sensitive to certain materials such as the surgical tubing used on guitar hangers for many years. The cases didn't seem to be a problem in most cases ( no pun intended ) but if put in certain conditions such as moisture or alcohol, the finish was more susceptible to leach tints used in cases and straps. There were also some instruments that probably made it out the door with some lacquer that was less than standard grade. We had a short period of time where we had to switch lacquer suppliers because the lacquer was not testing out well. One of the problems was imprinting because the lacquer did not harden adequately. After a very short stint with a different supplier, we returned to the original supplier because the other company fell short of their promises. It is possible that it was around that time that yours were finished and it wasn't noticed before it went out the door. We stripped all the ones that we knew were a problem but we might have missed a few.
Javi, I'm still looking forward to seeing the pics.
Lacking Talent, Thanks
Fred

[bassman]

Fred,
My early G&LS in sunburst all suffer from the imprinting of their case lining into the finish and the case lining color leeching into the neck finish.

I also have black marks from the neck hangars used in Music stores on several of my old nitro finished G&Ls.( the L-1000s).

SInce they are certainly far out of warranty (23 years) ,I wondered if you ever came across any product that could remove color from a lacquer finish without stripping off the finish?

Thanks,
bassman Bill

[Fred Finisher]

Bassman,
It's been a long time since I attempted to repair this kind of finish problem. There are better products out there now that might work without having to strip off the entire finish. Mohawk makes some of the best touch up products on the market. Much will depend on how deep the imprinting and color bleed goes into the finish. If there is hope, I would tread carefully because an original, less than perfect, finish is still more desirable than a refinish. Imprinting is usually easier to fix because you can smooth out the area and add more lacquer if necessary before buffing.
Fred

[Brock]

I have two L-1000s from 1980 and the biggest problem I have is the color of the case lining leeches into the neck nitro finish wherever the basses touch the case.

One man's problem is another man's dream!