Help with my early 90s Legacy stock pickups

[chee16]

I am trying to sort out my stock pickups for my early 90s Legacy. Before I knew what I was doing (lol, as if I know now) I switched them out for a set of Texas Specials. I don't mind the TS pickups at all, but I have recently educated myself on my amp and tube selection to the point of really knowing my setup, so I figured I could get a better idea of how the stock pickups sound now, and I have read that they are pretty good pickups. The guitar was owned by my uncle before me so I know that it hasn't been messed with, I have all the original paperwork for it.

My problem is there are no identifying marks on them, so I don't know what position each one is meant for. I figured since the wires are all different length that that was a good indicator and they still have the stock wire ties on them so I think I know what is what, but I am not sure of the orientation of each, as in what is top and what is bottom. Again, from the wires I can guess, but I would rather be certain. On the base plate one side bumps out for the wires to go through, to me it looks like those bumps should all be on the trem side, not the neck, correct? or is one supposed to be flipped? Is the middle pickup reverse wound for noise reduction?

Any info would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!

[Philby]

It sounds like you've got it pretty much worked out.

The pickup with the longest wires will be the neck, and the bridge will have the shortest. The wires will exit the pickup oriented towards the tremolo.

If it's a very early 90's Legacy you've probably got Seymour Duncan pickups as stock. Later 90's models had G&L's own pickups in them. I'm not quite sure when the transition year was. I'm sure Craig will chime in with this info. You'll be able to identify the G&L pickups as the pickup covers have a raised G&L logo on them (at least mine from '96 do).

Please feel free to post some pics of your Legacy. We love photos around here.

Cheers,

Phil.

[chee16]

Thanks, the more I thought it out the less I panicked, haha. At first I was thinking "what a bunch of jerks, they didn't label anything, how can I know!~!!!!" then I cooled down a bit.

There are definitely no raised G&L logos on the plastic covers. I can't say I really care if they are a specific brand, I have just read around a lot and there are a ton of guys that say the stock pick ups are great. When I had them changed I had just bought an amp I had no idea how to use (Marshall TSL602, now with an Eminence Tonespotter and black powder) and thought it must be the pick ups cuz all the guys I knew changed theirs. I now know that my ear is all that matters.

I think I will stick the stock ones back in just to see how I like them, might end up with a mixture by the time I'm done, the TS bridge pickup isn't really doing it for me, though I predominantly play neck anyways.

Will post some pics for sure. I made a custom pick guard out of aluminum with a mirror design on it, but I changed it back to stock thinking it might be effecting my tone. Anyone know if an aluminum pick guard will change tone? I have heard that stiffer materials will make minor differences.

[Craig]

I'm sure Craig will chime in with this info.
Phil.

The Seymour Duncan SSL Vintage (flats) pickups were used in the Legacy from 1992-1994. The pickups were changed to the G&L Vintage Style Alnico V
beginning in 1995 to the present. See List of pickups used in G&L guitars.

Thanks, the more I thought it out the less I panicked, haha. At first I was thinking "what a bunch of jerks, they didn't label anything, how can I know!~!!!!" then I cooled down a bit.

There are definitely no raised G&L logos on the plastic covers. I can't say I really care if they are a specific brand, I have just read around a lot and there are a ton of guys that say the stock pick ups are great. When I had them changed I had just bought an amp I had no idea how to use (Marshall TSL602, now with an Eminence Tonespotter and black powder) and thought it must be the pick ups cuz all the guys I knew changed theirs. I now know that my ear is all that matters.

I think I will stick the stock ones back in just to see how I like them, might end up with a mixture by the time I'm done, the TS bridge pickup isn't really doing it for me, though I predominantly play neck anyways.

Will post some pics for sure. I made a custom pick guard out of aluminum with a mirror design on it, but I changed it back to stock thinking it might be effecting my tone. Anyone know if an aluminum pick guard will change tone? I have heard that stiffer materials will make minor differences.

See this post regarding metal pickguards: Metal Pickguards Observations & Looking For Other's Thoughts.

Hope this helps.

[chee16]

Great links, thank you!

Still not sure which pick ups they are since I can only find the serial number references for up 92 and beyond 97, which is weird.

Are there marking on the G&L pickups? Since both the seymour duncans and g&l have flush pole pieces that doesn't help me.

I am still going to try them as they seem like nice pickups.

[KenC]

I recently bought a set of used Legacy pickups. At least they were advertised as such. One has a G&L cover, but the other two have generic covers in a different color. Aside from the covers, they are identical in construction and materials. One of them has the number "700" written in marker on the base, but I can't see marks on the other two.

Ken

[chee16]

I was told that pics are very welcome. The strap I use I made myself, when I was younger a friend of mines mom had owned a strange vintage clothing/everything store, one day she just out of the blue gives me this vintage women's belt with these great silver conchos on it and told me when she saw it all she could think was how it would be a perfect guitar strap for me.

Also, I didn't put the aluminum pick guard back on it since some of the reading I was doing suggested that with aluminum could cause changes to the tone, so I didn't want to change 2 things and wonder which one made the difference. Here is a pic


Now for some crap news, and a little help. The crap news is that there is a chance that my local shop who I have gone to for a long time and trusted may have rooked me. I had the owner/manager/"guy who is always there" order me in some Texas Special pickups a long while back and install them. At the time he had a box with 2 new pickups in it but had sold one of them, but I told him I wanted all three, so he ordered them which took a while and then put them in. On further inspection of my pickups lately I noticed the neck pickup didn't have a Fender Texas Special emblem on it, then I looked closer and the wires are cheaper without the thick covering, and the baseplate of the pickup is cheap plastic, totally different then the others. Also the magnet poles on the mid and trem pickups are very similar if not the same on the 2 TS pickups, whereas this one has a strange pole setup with the 4th string pole being a lot higher then the rest. I doubt it can be identified but here are some pics

[chee16]

So with some more research I am pretty sure that I figured out the pickup.

It is apparently a middle fender super strat pickup, based on the wire colours, plastic baseplate with 016730 stamped in it and the 7.4k ohm reading.

I am kind of in disbelief that my local shop would do this, I distinctly remember paying $247 for the pickups. At the same time, I don't have the receipt, and no real way to prove it. Heck I don't even know how to bring it up.

[SouthpawGuy]

Bummer. On the bright side a lower output pickup in the middle will increase the quack in positions 2 and 4.

I have a Legacy with DiMarzio Injectors neck and bridge, and a lower output thinner sounding Area 67 in the middle.

The tones in the 2 and 4 positions are more usable than if there were three high output pickups in the guitar.

[chee16]

So I visited my local shop today. I have known the owner for almost 20 years now so I thought it was worth talking to him about. I made sure that I prefaced with the fact that I was not trying to say he intentionally did anything wrong and that I also realized that it was probably 7-8 years ago.

He was great, he basically said that it would have been him that put in the pickups and that he really couldn't make heads or tails of it. He knows his pickups well enough to know the different immediately, but wasn't sure what would have happened. He immediately offered to give me $35 for the erroneous pickup on trade and his cost on whatever pickup I wanted, to make it up to me and because he knows that I am honest. I told him that I didn't expect anything for free and certainly not to cost him money, so he said giving me his cost doesn't lose him anything, nor make him anything. Makes sense.

He had a DiMarzio Area 58 neck pickup in stock, so I took that home and installed it for a try. I like it, not totally sure about it, but will play it tomorrow and make a decision. I just so happened that he got a Legacy exactly like mine in on trade a couple days ago (weird) that had a DiMarzio injector in the neck, area 58 mid, and mini humbucker of some sort that really did nothing for me ( I was looking into those for the bridge too, good thing I got to play one). The injector wasn't bad for sure, but I think I like the area 58 better.

We'll see

[SouthpawGuy]

DiMarzio themselves recommend 61 bridge, 67 middle and 58 neck. The 61 is the highest output, 67 the brightest tone and 58 the warmest with more bass. I actually have three SSS Legacys, one stock, a second with the Areas as I just noted and a third with the Injectors neck and bridge with 67 in the middle.

As for tones and output the all Area Legacy has the lowest output with the brightest tones, think Buddy Holly or Robert Cray tones. The Injector / Area one has the highest output with fattest tone, great for rock, blues, metal even, but also very good for clean jazzy tones in the neck. The 67 in the middle allows for great quack tones in the 2 and 4 positions.

The stock Legacy sits right between the other two in terms of output and tone, which surprised me, I had expected it to be lower in output and brighter in tone than the all Area equipped one.

The good thing about the Areas / Injectors is they can be installed in any position, a 58 neck, 67 middle and Injector bridge would be an interesting combo to try.

[chee16]

I am thinking I will try another 58 in the mid as he has one there that I might be able to get a nice price on in combo with the other one I already have. I have heard good things about n-58, m-58 and b-61 which could be interesting. But for now I think I can leave the texas special in the bridge and be fine since I really don't use that position much.

Thanks for the comments, that helps a lot. It is easy to read a hundred reviews online from the strat forums, but the Legacy is different so getting some input is perfect.

[chee16]

I just put in an Area 58 for the mid to match the neck, very nice, the more I play these the more I like them. I started to find that with the Texas Specials there was a pretty noticable point when the treble got shrill and gross to me. The area 58s seem a bit more forgiving and warm, but still articulate. Definitely gets my tone closer to the vintage tones I am looking for, which aren't necessarily exactly like JH or SRV or EC. I am getting the pair for about $120 too, so that helps, minus the $35 I'll get for the Super strat mid, and maybe a little for the Texas special too if he is in a good mood, haha.

[louis cyfer]

i have the dimarzios, but i never warmed up to them. there is something lacking. the texas specials are really bad though, i don't know what fender was thinking.

[chee16]

I guess it depends on your amp and the sound you are going for. Also, I play 11s and play fairly hard, not thrash metal hard, but any high output pickup I have used doesn't suit me, though I haven't tried a ton really.

For me they sound really good, def better then the stock (which weren't as bad as I remember, haha) and better then the TS's. I didn't think the TS pickups were terrible, but I think they might be better suited for a Fender style amp. My Marshall tsl602 has very different charactoristics, which I like (though i spent some time and money making it the way I like)

[louis cyfer]

i don't like high output pups either. i have lots of different pups, and i also spent 15 years trying to find a great silent single coil. i failed. i really put high hopes in the dimarzio areas and kinmans. the closest i found was tom anderson. but still something lacked. i use fralins, kleins, d allens, bare knuckle, tom anderson, antiquities, nordstrand currently. the best method i found is the suhr silent singe coil system. i also have lots of amps. no marshalls though. if the areas work well on a marshall, that's great.

[chee16]

Wow....I just got really jealous....I have read about all those brands.....and simply don't have the cash to try them yet.

I guess they work well for me with my amp, for now, haha. When I use something all I am looking for is a good improvement, which these pickups are for me. I really like the sound, but that's not to say that I won't hear something else and have it be a big improvement, haha. Heck, I originally thought the texas specials were better then stock (although at that point I wasn't playing much and had no clue how to set up my amp). I think I have a really good sound from my guitar, and I LOVE the feel and play of it, so eventually I will probably get another and use totally different pickups in it for a different sound. Just thinking about that gets my gears going in a direction I can't afford right now.

Next up is NOS preamp tubes for my amp. They are already on the way and I can't wait!

[louis cyfer]

what brand preamp tubes did you get? i use telefunken and rca black plate 12ax7's usually, but have some mullard, sylvania and ge as well. (nos all of them).

[chee16]

I ordered some tubes from a really nice guy on the Marshall forums I frequent, he has a large collection of used tubes that all test new and was willing to give me some good deals:
rca 5751 triple mica dual support
raytheon black plate
sylvania long grey plate
plus the guy threw in a nice RCA short plate to be nice

I have won on ebay:
sylvania 12ax7 not sure the details but I got it for $2.30 and it was tested good
GE 12ax7a long plate
Jan Phillips 12ax7wa
I didn't pay over $18 shipped for any of the ebay ones, so they were more a "I'll put a low bid and see what happens" moment, haha.

[louis cyfer]

i forgot i have the phillips in my ots 50, and raytheons in my ampeg. i have a local guy who sells nos tubes, but e will not ship them. i just go down to his place, look at what he has, test it on the spot, even put it in my amp to make sure they work well before i pay. there have been a few that tested fine but ended up being microphonic.

[chee16]

My tsl602 is well known for being.....not Marshall's best. But this is pretty much totally incorrect, even though tons of internet junkies say it over and over "the tsl line has too many quality issues and sounds too modern.." apparently if you say it enough times others will follow, haha! Stock it was .....blah, not terrible but lacked in a couple areas

First thing was messing with tubes, I tried only current production stuff to start, JJs, Tungsol, Mesa Spaxy, Shuguang a and b. Made a big difference, but the biggest was getting new speakers, an Eminence Tonespotter and Black Powder. They are now nicely broken in and amazing. Next I spent some time on the Lead channel, tsl lead channels are famous for being fizzy and having a ridiculous amount of gain. So I took a mod from the tsl100 and with some checking and asking around made it work on mine. It consists of a capacitor on one resistor and across the 1 and 3 pin of the lead channel volume pot. Now I have a nice crunchier lead that still rips, but no fizz. The crunch channel is awsome chunky Marshall, and the clean gets me my clean blues just fine. I have a kit clone ts808 with Keeley mods that is nice, and a modded Crybaby.

My setup is almost complete, though another guitar would up the versatility for sure. I really like my Legacy though, so another one might be what I look at.