Lunch Report, Wednesday March 31 2010

[darwinohm]

The lunch report is being posted early as I driving Miss Ginny this morning and we will be back mid afternoon. Thank you for all your posts yesterday. I learned that there are 8 string basses and several other things. This is a diverse group!

Today is Lowender Wednesday and lunch at this time is unknown but it will be tasty whatever it happens to be.

I have been a bass player since the 60s. A band has to have a good bass grove driving it along with a drummer. The rest falls in. I know that there are some excellent bass players on this forum and I could only add a bit to what these guys already know/do. Here are my bass guitars and my reflections on each of them and I am looking for thoughts from you Lowenders.




On the left is a Fender American Deluxe Jazz, Next, my new to me 1999 L2000 Fretless (Beautiful I think), and my Music Man Stingray 5.

I have done 2 CDs with the Fender Jazz and it has a nice mellow tone (18V Preamp). I recently recorded with the Stingray 5 and it does growl. I like it. Last weekend I went to Northern Minnesota to practice with our band and I used the L2000 for the first time. This thing cooks! The gain is much higher than the Musicman. The controls and tone are outstanding and I have to believe that it could work for any kind of music. Are these a best kept secret? Our lead player is a Pro and after a half hour I asked him "what do you think"? He loved the tone but said that it sounded wishy. He was trying to tell me that I was not dead on all the time. That is the challenge in going to Fretless. I have had bass players tell me that it took them a year to play in tune. I will hang in there. This L2000 is so impressive that if it doesn't work out for me Fretless, I will try to get a Fretted Ebony neck for it.

Now, I need your help on this next Stingray 5 that is getting a resto.



and



It was a mess when I bought it and I am going to do it in a Baby Blue. It was a job to strip it as it had been repainted without stripping the first time so it was double trouble. It was originally Transparent and covered with Black. It has a ding in the wood that is already filled and that is why it is not being restored in Transparent.

Here is my question, It has a birdseye neck and do I leave the headstock natural or paint it to match the body? The logo will be restored either way.

The next question is, The neck has oil stains on the fretboard from playing and that has a certain appeal to me. Do I sand it out or leave it? Let me know what you folks think on this.

Final question is why are you a bass player. I know that many of you do both 6 string guitar and bass and some of you do 8 string bass so the number of strings is not an issue. If anyone asks, I will share later why I prefer bass as I could do either if I have a chance to practice the material on the regular 6 string. Lowenders, let us know! Have a great day everyone and I will check in mid afternoon. At my age, everyday is a good day! -- Darwin.

[John_L]

I would say you should keep the head natural. A good clean of the fret board would help. It looks like a good project.

I enjoy playing bass, I think part of it is the size the physicality of hefting a large bodied bass around, I use a long strap and end up with the thing balanced on my left leg. But it works for me. I also like the innovation in bass design. While guitar design has gone backward over the last twenty years bass design has moved on.

[shawn500]

Hmmm..I'm a sucker for matching headstocks, so I'd say paint that bad boy!

As far as bass goes, I've had 3 in my lifetime. One was a cheap P-Bass knockoff I bought at a garage sale. It sounded fine, but would not stay in tune. My second bass was a pawn shop prize. A 1968 Hofner "Beatle" bass. I bought it for $500.00. It was fun to play, but I sold it a year later when we were in some dire financial straights. I got $1000.00 for it, so I'm not too bummed, but I miss it. A couple of years ago, I bought a late 90's L-2000 (3-bolt) from a buddy of mine. I love it! It's so versatile. I love being able to switch from passive to active. So many tones!

As a bassplayer I make a good guitarist.
I mainly use it for demos, and our bassplayer barrows it every now and then.
I like getting it out when I'm frustrated. Something about playing the bass soothes me.

Good question Darwin, and nothing but respect for the lowenders on the forum. A good bass player is a treasure indeed!

[jazzrat]

Great to highlight the low end Darwin! I'm kinda like Shawn ("as a bass player I make a good guitarist") but I do love to play it. For a time all my local jazz gigs were on bass. I improved a bunch during that time. These days I have scaled back my bass collection to one perfect little MIM fretless Jazz bass. Really a very nice bass for not too much money. When I was more active "bassicly" I played Carvins...an LB20 4-string and a koa LB-75 5-string that was set up with a High-C instead of low B for jazz soloing. I have not had the opportunity to try a G & L but they sure look great as I'm starting to learn about them.
Don't have a pic of my Jazz but here are my Carvins.
I also included a rare Fender I had for a while called a "precision AE. Very cool semi-hollow fretless with piezo bridge. had a great URB tone.

[John_L]

Hmmm..I'm a sucker for matching headstocks, so I'd say paint that bad boy!

As far as bass goes, I've had 3 in my lifetime. One was a cheap P-Bass knockoff I bought at a garage sale.

I'm also only on three basses for a lifetime, my first bass was a P Bass copy I got from Monkey Business in Romford (Town outside London) Monkey Biz was the ultimate music shop, it was at one time part owned by Cozy Powell and for some reason a lot of ex pro gear turned up in there Andrew Eldritch from The Sisters of Mercy bought his brown 70's Les Paul from there, the guitar was previously owned by Smokie, some of Suzi Quatro's basses (she seemed to dump three brand new PRS basses with in weeks of getting them) and even one of Jimmy Pages 12 sting Ovations. it also has a huge range of amps and cases and other stuff, my early 70's Marshall JMP came from there as well (which is for sale) but like all good things it had to come to an end and went into receivership in the early 90's when is when I saw a £200 bass marked up for £50 (about $30us). The sad part is that PMT now have a shop as large as Monkey Biz just around the corner and seem to be making it work.

[yowhatsshakin]

Final question is why are you a bass player.

I was always a 'guitar player' but in my teens strangely enough I scored most of my gigs as a bass player. In my recording-only band that I played in on the side, I also took care of the low end beyond playing most guitar parts. There I use a fantastic literally no-name bass that was heavy and sounded magnificent. Unfortunately, the drummer ran away with it

This L-2500 is the only bass I have now, and I love it:

On of the nice pieces of gear I have for this bass is a HA-1A practice headphone amp built by Walter Harley of Cafe Walter. These things are fantastic and come highly recommended. It's the little box on the right in this pic:


Great week so far Darwin!

[bassman]

I am a bassplayer because that is the instrument that I started my musical journey on 41 years ago and I continue to find new territory to explore everytime I play bass. I have a lot more to offer a band as a bassplayer than as a guitarist.

I collect basses more than guitars and I have many to choose from when I go out to a gig. I am more interested in the sounds presented by each bass than their pedigree and that is what attracted me to me first G&L bass: an L-1000 that was traded in to the store where I was teaching lessons in 1989.
That was and is an amazing instrument.

G&Ls are the sharper knife, the better tool, the sometimes unknown brand that smokes the boutique basses whenever they are compared head to head. I know. I do this in every music store that has a G&L bass to play.
Even with dead strings, you can hear the fidelity of the pickups and the resonance of the bridge on a G&L bass, active or passive.

I started guitar just to be able to teach beginners how to play and I still play for my own enjoyment but I play bass professionally.

Restoring your Musicman:

I vote to leave the headstock natural, esp if it has birdseyes!

Stains on fingerboard- You can clean them off with windex and then re-oil the neck with tung oil or leave the stains on if you like them, but re-oil the neck and fingerboard either way.

Finishing the body: I beleive that a thinner finish will allow the bass to resonate to its maximum potential, what ever color is your choice but I would try to apply a thin finish.

That looks like a fun project! I own a Musicman Sub 5 passive bass that I enjoy a lot.

[shawn500]

G&Ls are the sharper knife, the better tool, the sometimes unknown brand that smokes the boutique basses whenever they are compared head to head.

My buddy Aaron sold me his L-2000 to finance a fancy-schmancy Michael Tobias 5-String bass. It's really cool, plays well, and sounds great, but I think after the "new" wore off, he really regretted selling the L-2000. The MTD is great, but honestly the L-2000 smokes it in terms of versatility, and I think the MFD's sound just as good as the Bartolini pickups in his "boo-teek" bass.

[Brock]

The MTD is great, but honestly the L-2000 smokes it in terms of versatility, and I think the MFD's sound just as good as the Bartolini pickups in his "boo-teek" bass.

That's been my experience. I remember playing a Pedulla with Barts in it some years back and thinking "Wow, my (1984 First-style G&L) SB-2 smokes this thing"! The Pedulla was over $2k I believe. My SB-2 was $350 I believe before shipping. I was, and still am, convinced the pickups were the huge difference. I have a non-G&L bass that was losing out to the SB-2 around that time and after some MFDs were added to it, the playing field was level again.

MFDs rule!

[MrRoundel]

Confession: I now own 2 basses. I have my '92(?) ASAT Signature that I bought a couple of years ago at a price I'd have been a fool to refuse. I spent a little time learning some scale and riff playing on it before selling my house and getting into less musically conducive living quarters. Since my bass amp (Ampeg Rocket Bass 100R) is in storage, I haven't really taken my bass out. However, I do enjoy the instrument, and realize that if I could passably play it, I'd be more likely to be able to get a spot in a band doing vocals.
Now the true confession: I bought another bass last week. Again, it was at an attractive price and, from what I'd read, might work well with my small hands. So, I made the mistake of going over and checking it out. Black with a maple fretboard, Sick-L headstock, in excellent condition, and with OHSC (Student model w/o accessory compartment). A quick trip the bank and the deal was done. It's a sweet bass. I can't wait to plug in into my Rocket. Anyway, here's the black beauty.

[shawn500]

Mmmmmmmmm.........Nice!

I love those sickle headstocks.
Congrats on the score!

[darwinohm]

John writes:
I use a long strap and end up with the thing balanced on my left leg.

Interesting comment. You must have been at the low end in the poll a couple weeks ago on how you wear your guitar!


I also like the innovation in bass design. While guitar design has gone backward over the last twenty years bass design has moved on.

I agree that bass technology has changed. I am surprised at the switching options on the L2000 in 1999. Thanks John--- Darwin.

[darwinohm]

Shawn wrote:

As far as bass goes, I've had 3 in my lifetime.

As a bassplayer I make a good guitarist.

Shawn You have had some nice basses. That Green L2000 is a beauty. Most of us would love to play like the stars but in my case I am convinced that I that I have some limitations. By the way, I am keeping score on the headstock question. Thanks--- Darwin

[darwinohm]

Jos writes:
Drummer ran away with it.

Jos, beautiful wood in that L2500. I may have to get rid of the resto when it is done and check out an L2500. Lucky the drummer only ran off with the guit. Musicians have been know to have run off with more that that. I have been in some temporary bands that couldn't stay together because of romance. Last one was just starting to get it together when it suddenly blew up! Thanks--- Darwin

[darwinohm]

Bassman writes:
I am a bassplayer because that is the instrument that I started my musical journey on 41 years ago and I continue to find new territory to explore everytime I play bass. I have a lot more to offer a band as a bassplayer than as a guitarist.

I collect basses more than guitars and I have many to choose from when I go out to a gig. I am more interested in the sounds presented by each bass than their pedigree and that is what attracted me to me first G&L bass: an L-1000 that was traded in to the store where I was teaching lessons in 1989.
That was and is an amazing instrument.
G&Ls are the sharper knife, the better tool, the sometimes unknown brand that smokes the boutique basses whenever they are compared head to head. I know. I do this in every music store that has a G&L bass to play.
Even with dead strings, you can hear the fidelity of the pickups and the resonance of the bridge on a G&L bass, active or passive.

Good to hear the perspective from a pro and I will bet that you are a master at your trade. I would have liked to gig all those years when I didn't , but due to a demanding job and that it is difficult to keep a group together, I didn't. We have played the last 10 years and have had 2 personnel changes during that time. We are friends and there are usually some hurt feelings.


Restoring your Musicman:
Stains on fingerboard- You can clean them off with windex and then re-oil the neck with tung oil or leave the stains on if you like them, but re-oil the neck and fingerboard either way.

That is something I will try. I have already lightened them up a great deal. I haven't tried windex but will let you know what happens. I have also used steel wool and may just have to live with it. This bass has some miles. Thanks Bassman.---Darwin

[darwinohm]

Jazzrat wrote:
When I was more active "bassicly" I played Carvins...an LB20 4-string and a koa LB-75 5-string that was set up with a High-C instead of low B for jazz soloing.
I also included a rare Fender I had for a while called a "precision AE. Very cool semi-hollow fretless with piezo bridge. had a great URB tone.

Jazzrat, Those were some dandy Carvins. We have all let some go that we regret later. Carvin has beautiful wood options and that CIJ Fender was very nice. It has a tapered heel like the American Deluxe models. Thanks for your input .-- Darwin

[darwinohm]

Mr Rounded Writes:
Confession:

Mr Rounded, there is nothing better than a confession to get their attention!!! An Asat bass and then,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Now the true confession: I bought another bass last week. Again, it was at an attractive price and, from what I'd read, might work well with my small hands. So, I made the mistake of going over and checking it out. Black with a maple fretboard, Sick-L headstock, in excellent condition, and with OHSC (Student model w/o accessory compartment). A quick trip the bank and the deal was done. It's a sweet bass. I can't wait to plug in into my Rocket. Anyway, here's the black beauty.

Now you have a couple of sweet G&L basses there. I am not as familiar with G&L basses as I am the 6 strings and I need to spruce up. I had seen the L5000 mentioned before but didn't know what it was. It has a Z coil and a three bolt neck to boot. What year is this beauty? I think lowenders are coming out of the woodwork. Mr Rounded, thanks for the confession and I glad that you didn't have a third one telling us that you had stole it from some soul who would die without it!!! --- Darwin





[/quote]

[MrRoundel]

Now you have a couple of sweet G&L basses there. I am not as familiar with G&L basses as I am the 6 strings and I need to spruce up. I had seen the L5000 mentioned before but didn't know what it was. It has a Z coil and a three bolt neck to boot. What year is this beauty? I think lowenders are coming out of the woodwork. Mr Rounded, thanks for the confession and I glad that you didn't have a third one telling us that you had stole it from some soul who would die without it!!! --- Darwin

No, actually the guy I bought it from was a touring/gigging professional who had a few other G&L's, among other very nice basses, and Ampeg equipment.

Yes, it has a z-coil looking pickup, along with that big fat "B" string. Based on the serial number, I'd say that it's from around 1989. For a 21 year-old instrument that's been in the hands of a pro, and who plays pretty raucous rock, it's very clean. All of his instruments were meticulously cared for.

I have a third confession, but it's more about my ignorance than anything else. O.K., since I'm in the confessional, I'll talk. I buy the bass knowing nothing of 5-string instruments, aside from them having a fifth string that is. I comment to the seller, "Wow, that low string looks huge, much bigger than my other bass." He says, "Oh, I think it's normal, like a 1.30 or something." I have him play it a bit before I buy it. He could play. He mentions that it's definitely out of tune. So, I get it home and proceed to start tuning it up, or down (since it's a bass). Mistakenly believing that the top string is an "E", like my 4 string ASAT, I notice it's way off and start bringing her up. By the time I was getting closer to being in what I thought was in tune, the neck was bowing rather disturbingly. This, despite the fact that it has a quarter-sawn neck (Reportedly all G&L 5-strings do, at least L5000's). So I go online and start searching for info on tuning a 5-string. While it wasn't as easy as one would think, I find information telling me that the monster string is tuned to a "B". I figured the "B" was on the bottom, smallest diameter string. Oops! Good thing I checked, and that it had a quarter-sawn neck on it. Embarrassing but, no harm, no foul. It's sort of a mental exercise working with the bass like the 4-string and trying to forget about that low "B".
I did see that a couple of guys here tune the low "B" to a "C". Of course taking it up 1 semi-tone isn't as stressful as going for 5. I'm glad the head didn't take a final bow and lose it's pretty little sickle head. The penalty for killing an L5000 is probably quite severe.

[Ken Baker]

Today is Lowender Wednesday and lunch at this time is unknown but it will be tasty whatever it happens to be.

And there was much rejoicing. Yea...

Here is my question, It has a birdseye neck and do I leave the headstock natural or paint it to match the body? The logo will be restored either way.

I'd leave it natural and just clean up what needs to be cleaned up. Bird's eye maple is too pretty to cover up.

The next question is, The neck has oil stains on the fretboard from playing and that has a certain appeal to me. Do I sand it out or leave it? Let me know what you folks think on this.

Again, just clean up it and dig the mojo. The EBMM necks, unless clear poly or painted, are simply oiled. It's fairly easy to maintain and gunstock oil and wax are the products to use.

Final question is why are you a bass player.

It's what I gravitate to when I listen to music. Even if a piece doesn't have a bass line, or maybe a bass isn't playing at a particular point, my brain makes one.

Now, if only my hands could play as well as my brain....

A couple others have mentioned that guitars seem to (I'm summarizing here) look to the past and that basses tend to look forward. I used to completely subscribe to that idea, but not so much anymore. The guitar world seems to revolve around the Strat, Tele, and Les Paul. Z-Coils and MFDs excepted, we kind of see that around here as well. It's hard to say whether Leo & Gibson did it perfectly or if the franchise just "took", but the rest has certainly been history.

On the bass side it's Precision, Jazz, and StingRay. I can't tell you how many times I've fielded the question, "How can I make my L-2000 sound just like a P?" Or a J? Or a 'Ray? When some guy wanted to know how he could make one of these...



...sound like a Precision, I had to build a canned response.

Be that as it may, I do likes me some modern basses. Here are a few pics:






And the Bongo above.

The closest to "old school" is the SB-2, but it can do things the average P-J only dreams of.

Ken...

[darwinohm]

Ken Baker wrote:
"Again, just clean up it and dig the mojo. The EBMM necks, unless clear poly or painted, are simply oiled. It's fairly easy to maintain and gunstock oil and wax are the products to use".

Yes Ken, they are just oiled and I intend to keep doing that. I will repaint the rest of the neck and headstock, only areas that are already painted.



"Now, if only my hands could play as well as my brain...."
Any one who had a cure for that would get rich on many of us guys.





...sound like a Precision, I had to build a canned response.

Be that as it may, I do likes me some modern basses. Here are a few pics:






And the Bongo above.

The closest to "old school" is the SB-2, but it can do things the average P-J only dreams of.

Ken, you certainly have an impressive group of basses that you have posted here and they all appear well cared for. I have seen many of your posts in the past and posts on basses in general and it goes without saying that when Ken speaks, you better listen. You are a wealth of information as are a lot on this forum. Thank you for sharing---Darwin

[darwinohm]

Mr Rounded responded:

"I have a third confession, Mistakenly believing that the top string is an "E", like my 4 string ASAT, I notice it's way off and start bringing her up. By the time I was getting closer to being in what I thought was in tune, the neck was bowing rather disturbingly."

The low E is probably a .130 and I can visualize the neck bowing. You have done what engineers do and tested the truss rod and neck. That is one way of weeding out the weakest parts. I did that to a computer one time by applying 180VDC to 6VDC circuit boards. It sounded like the 4th of July. I was supposed to be the expert helping another fellow who was having problems. I had a good boss and when he asked me what happened, I said that I got rid of the weak stuff! Thanks Mr Rounded, and I'll bet that your bass has recovered nicely! --Darwin

[Ken Baker]

Ken, you certainly have an impressive group of basses that you have posted here and they all appear well cared for. I have seen many of your posts in the past and posts on basses in general and it goes without saying that when Ken speaks, you better listen. You are a wealth of information as are a lot on this forum.

Thanks for the kind words. I'm not always right, but I do make an effort to share what I know. When I do mess up, it gets filed away as education.

The low E is probably a .130 and I can visualize the neck bowing.

A .130 would actually be a low B string. Low E is usually .095 to .105. So yeah - a .130 cranked up to E might just test the neck.

I did that to a computer one time by applying 180VDC to 6VDC circuit boards. It sounded like the 4th of July.

<sniff-sniff> I just LOVE the smell of burned electronics and exploded caps. What's the old radio experimenter saying? "Tune for maximum smoke?" That must have been a kick in the pants.

Ken...

[darwinohm]

Ken wrote:

A .130 would actually be a low B string. Low E is usually .095 to .105. So yeah - a .130 cranked up to E might just test the neck.

Sorry about that Ken, I meant low B. Brain and fingers out of sync. Reboot! --Darwin.

[MrRoundel]

I forgot to comment on you MusicMan headstock. I say keep it natural, especially with that birdseye. While I haven't seen a huge number of MM's, basses or conventional guitars, of the ones I have seenI don't recall one with birdseye figuring in it. Show it off I say.

[Brock]

...sound like a Precision, I had to build a canned response.

I appreciate the read-between-the-lines that the split SB-1 MFD eats P-Bass lunch. It does.

As to B strings, the only one I've ever heard ring to my satisfaction was on a Dingwall fanned fret bass. It was 38ish inch scale. Moved and sounded great. Not sloppy.

[Ken Baker]

I appreciate the read-between-the-lines that the split SB-1 MFD eats P-Bass lunch. It does.

Definitely does - big time.

As to B strings, the only one I've ever heard ring to my satisfaction was on a Dingwall fanned fret bass. It was 38ish inch scale. Moved and sounded great. Not sloppy.

I've played a Dingwall and came away VERY impressed with the feel. It's really funny... you look at the fingerboard and think, "Huh?" Then you play it and think, "Ah! So that's what it's all about." Wish I could afford one.

And yes, the B is excellent. So is the B on my L-2500 with the nailed down bridge. The Lakland ain't so bad either. The Bongo's B is good, but in a processed way. My experience regarding B strings and scale length is that longer than 34" scale might be helpful, but a well-attached bridge and string selection made a bigger difference. Of course, YMMV.

Ken...

[darwinohm]

Ken wrote:
"On the bass side it's Precision, Jazz, and StingRay. I can't tell you how many times I've fielded the question, "How can I make my L-2000 sound just like a P?" Or a J? Or a 'Ray? When some guy wanted to know how he could make one of these...
...sound like a Precision, I had to build a canned response."

Ken, I read your canned response last night and you tell it like it is. Many have said "you can put lipstick on a pig" . I have never been into modding other that adding a Bigsby now and then. The characteristics of pickups are what they are. There is no one thing that covers all. Thanks --- Darwin.