Emergency Report!

[blargfromouterspace]

Lunch today was char bee hoon - thats fried vermicelli rice-noodles with chicken, fish cake, prawns and, at my request, heaps of chilli - at my all time favourite Malaysian restaurant. To call it a restaurant is a bit of stretch, more like a handful of tables crammed into the tiny space their premises occupies.

This week the GAS bug has bitten me, though its not for the usual stuff. This time I want a bass. One of these in Fullerton red with a tort guard, to be precise (that's almost a pun...)

I've been wanting to learn to play bass properly (ie not like a guitar player with a bass in his hands) for ages now. The thing that sparked this bass GAS was watching the excellent documentary "Standing in the Shadows of Motown". If you haven't seen it then, its about the band that played on virtually EVERY Motown single in the '60s and beyond. There's a reasonably length section in it about James Jamerson, the guy responsible for some of the best bass lines ever put to tape, that inspired me. Know any other "must see" music documentaries?

How many of you guitarists double on bass (another near pun...)? Any of you the other way around - bass players fudging it on guitar? And for those of you playing bass, what amps are you using? I intend to use my all tube 100W '70s Fender Twin clone while I'm getting started, I've tested it with a baritone thats lying around here and it sounds mighty! Anything I should be careful of, bar blowing/burning out the speakers (they're individually rated for 100W and are full range PA speakers anyway)?

[louis cyfer]

i dabble in bass. have a pbass and a steinberger. i play bass with fingers only, i don't like the sound of a pick on a bass. i try not to play like a guitar player playing bass, but i am sure it still happens. good luck.

[Swamp ash]

Lunch sounds awesome (minus the bird, though). I love Malaysian and Vietnamese!

SO, I have a bass - I am absolutely not a bass player, but it sounds fine through my Fender amp and particularly nice and dirty with distortion and gain. Your amp should have no problem with low frequencies although larger drivers simply have better response. Getting a clean sound is the challenge; I dn't think there is any detriment to your equipment.

Often, I play it like a guitar, though, with a pick. This saves my precious fingers from the horror of those strings. Other times, I slap, strum and to get funky sounds. Certainly, it's a great way to get the dog up and moving!!

A G&L bass would be excellent; I have a bass only b/c a picked up a barely used, 3 month old J-bass for dirt cheap.

[Sprinter 92]

I'm not a very good bass player. I have a JB-2. I've been using a Peavey, Delta Blues with a 15" speaker for an amp. I keep the volume low to help save the speaker. Celestion recently put out a video about playing bass through guitar speakers. The speaker in the video didn't survive. Here's my JB-2:

[darwinohm]

Interesting lunch Jamie, we haven't even thought about it yet.

A Fullerton Red bass with a Tort pickguard would be super! Glad that you are getting an interest in bass. I was originally a guitar player and turned to bass in 1960 when I was asked to play bass in a band. I think that there is an advantage to knowing regular guitar before playing bass. I listen very closely to the guitar player and work off that at times. I currently have only 3 bass guitars and am usually not looking for another. I am hooked on buying regular guitars.

I would be very careful in using you regular amp with a bass. It is not the wattage that is the issue but the frequency. Low frequencies from a bass can separate the windings in the voice coils in a regular speaker quite easily. You may be okay at soft practice levels but with anything more that that you are taking a big chance. The voice coils in bass speakers usually have more travel. Keep looking Jamie, one will grab you. Solid state amps for bass are quite cheap anyway.-- Darwin

[The Black Page]

G'day mate & thanks for answering the call to arms.
Breakfast of champions this end again blarg,I'm 4 marlboros down & half way through me 3rd cuppa as this goes to press
You're bang on pertaining to "real" bass players as opposed to lead guitarists who think they know the score on the instrument bro.i can smell them cats from Pluto! In a 3 piece setting if you were to have a weak link you'd prefer it the bassist is they're the easiest to hide but a good one is worth their weight in gold & can steer a plank spanker & hitter about like a puppeteer.
I know you're no mug big fella but ill echo the point Darwin's made here all the same.all it's gonna take is one hit with an over zealous right thumb after watching a level 42 DVD & you've done a speaker bro.if you're seriously entertaining a sojourn into jaco land a couple hundred bucks on a box would be well worth the piece of mind IMO bud.
As far as must see music documentaries with us both Aussies & a little "long in the tooth" if you were an old Rodriguez fan back in the day like I was mate I can't recommend "searching for sugarman" enough,it's an excellent flick if he was your cup of tea growing up over a rolly paper full of goodness & thoroughly deserved its win at the oscars last year.
Good read as always mate,more tea vicar!

[sirmyghin]

I am a bassist that dabbles in guitar, so flip the coin. I, like Louis, do not like picks on bass, too scratchy / chirpy.

Wouldn't worry too much about the running a bass through a guitar amp unless you crank it. The issue is mostly headroom, low frequencies take more to reproduce. Yes you can heat up the voice coils a bit mroe, but if you aren't playing for long times at very loud volumes you likely will have no issues. And if your speakers outstripe you amp for wattage, as is common, even less of one. My bass sounds righteous through the Mark V, had to do that once for some reason.

[willross]

Nice bass! I'm also a percussionist, so already part of the rhythm section... That food sounds great and I'm off to find similar.


Cheers,

Will

[thecajunboy]

Guitar player for most of my life. I play bass in an on-again/off-again bar band and a few recording projects here and there.

My thoughts:

I started with a Yamaha RBX something or other and graduated to a 97 SB-2. I learned and did all my recording with the SB-2. When I started playing out I acquired Warwick, Pedulla, and Keith Roscoe stuff, as well as a few Hamers along the way. Truth be told, the SB-2 can cover everything I've done. I'm a gear nut though, so stuff tends to accumulate around here. The Roscoe however, puts everything on the trailer.

For amps I was forced to start simple and used a collaboration of misfit gear. I'm now playing through Mesa and David Eden heads, Mesa and Acme cabinets. Once you have a real bass rig, you'll tend to think that the makeshift program was silly, and it really is unless there's good reason, like financial burden to do so. That was the case for me, so you do what you have to. No shame in that.

As far as I know, the only ways to hurt a speaker simply by playing it are to 1) overheat the voice coil by passing to much current through it (so don't use speakers that aren't rated for the wattage you intend to use), and 2) causing the cone to travel beyond it's excursion limit. Too much travel is easy to do to a guitar speaker with a bass. They're typically not designed for long travel, and when they travel too far, they hit the stops and can bend the voice coil causing damage. So play easy, and stay within the wattage range of the speakers being used.

How you play the bass is really up to you. If you just want to hack around and provide occasional bass lines for your buddies, playing like a guitar with a pick will probably be the easiest approach. I did the opposite and refused to use a pick for years. You can fake your way with most stuff using a pick if you have to. If the pick sounds too scratchy, it's because of poor technique. That's likely not uncommon for us guitar transferees. In a busy mix it gets buried, but at times it will stand out. I'm working on getting that straightened out for myself.

The best thing I can say about bass, for me, is that after playing bass for awhile, I became better at guitar. Things that I struggled with for years suddenly became easier even after not playing guitar for months at a time.

Enjoy, and have fun.

[GDub]

Guitar player for most of my life. I play bass in an on-again/off-again bar band and a few recording projects here and there.

The Cajun Boy! My old sparring buddy .

CB, how the hell are you? Hope life is treating you good.

I still drop in here occasionally, but mostly lurk. I kinda miss the rowdy days of the good ol' G&LDP, but, time passes and things change.

We're pushing 10 years of steady gigging and recording with our band. And it's still fun! (Most of the time.)

Rock on!

--GDub (aka --gw)

[Philby]

Hi Jamie,

I've long been a fan of bass players - James Jamerson, Stanley Clarke, John McVie, Paul McCartney are some of my faves. IMO a band can tolerate some pretty bad players as long as the bass player and drummer are in synch and driving the show. Am I a proper bass player? Hell no!! But I am improving since I ditched a pick and started using my fingers. I've also found it helpful to practice to drum loops on my computer to learn how to lock in to a groove.

I really wanted to own a G&L bass but couldn't find one that didn't weigh a ton and was comfortable. So I ended up with an 80's Fender Japan P-Bass which is probably all I'll ever need.

Re. music doco's, Standing In The Shadows of Motown is one of my all time faves. Joan Osborne singing 'What Becomes of the Broken Hearted' was a real highlight for me.

Let us know what kinda bass you decide to drag home........

[blargfromouterspace]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Phil - that was a highlight for me too, and a completely unexpected one.

Cajun Boy - Financial burden is exactly why I'll be using an amp I already have Once I get the bass I'll be left with nothing, so a proper bass amp and cab is still a while away. There's a place down the road that makes all kinds of speakers and PA equipment (Lorantz), and their bass cabs and speakers are amazing. I will eventually get 410 cab from, but that's a while away yet.

Darwin - That's exactly what I was wondering about. I think the speakers I have should be okay - they're full range PA drivers rated for 100W a piece, and there'll be two of them. If not then it's no great loss as they don't sound fantastic anyway!

Kyle - Headroom is not a problem with this amp, for guitar its painfully loud on 1.5

BP - Mmmmmm, Marlboro's and coffee.... I'm not smoking at the moment, mostly for my health but also because of the cost. They cost nearly $25 a pack now... A friend of mine who works at the cinema tells me every time I see her that I should see "Searching for Sugarman", I'll have to find it at the video shop. I wasn't around when he first came on the scene, I'm one of the younger members here!

Sprinter - Nice JB2. I tracked down that video, definitely not going to use my nice speakers for bass!

Swamp Ash - Minus the bird!?!?! Nothing goes better with a mix of seafood and noodles than some chicken Always good to see newbie to the forum posting in the Lunch Reports section. Be sure to sign up for a week yourself and pick up a prize for doing so

Louis - Fingers all the way. I use my right hand fingers a lot in my regular guitar playing, and after the initial adjustment period I don't have much trouble with my right hand, at least when I'm mucking about on friends basses.

[LeoFThe Champion]

I am a guitarist who sings. out of necessity I switched to Bass . As some others have said , I prefer the tone from my fingers. My real weapon is using early 80's G&L's , monster deep sounds!
Anthony

[Boogie Bill]

I'm not a bass player, but I did stay in a Holiday Inn last night!

Okay, actually I didn't, but I do have a Fender Precision "Lyte" bass. Very sweet, nice and lightweight.

For amps, I have several to choose from. The "big" one is a white-faced Peavey Combo with a 115 Black Widow. Cool thing about these is that they have a built in crossover, and enough patching that I can use a simple 20-50 watt amp for the high end to biamp--even a guitar amp will work. I used to do this with a friend's Fender-Rhodes Piano and her Peavey TNT 130 and one of my guitar amps. I could set them up L/R and have instant stereo. Another trick was to run a phaser/flanger/chorus in the High Out line to the guitar amp, allowing modulation, but keeping the bass notes solid.

I have a couple of new Acoustic Control AB-50 amps that are designed for acoustic bass but they work fine. I mostly use them for my Alesis Drum Machines.

I also have an old Randall Commander 120 115 bass combo. This one is too strident for use with keyboards, but it has a nice tone for bass at low volume and it works pretty well for guitar, too. Got that SRV Vibroverb thing going on.

I can use both a pick and fingers. Like a classically trained bass violist who uses both fingers and a bow--it's whatever is appropriate for the song.

What I would try to do is to find a decent closed-back 115 bass cab for your Twin Reverb when you want to use it for bass. The closed back is key--it literally creates a "cushion of air" to help protect the speaker. Make sure the cab's impedance matches the output of the Twin. When you want to play bass, just change cabs. Make sure the amp is OFF before you pull the speaker cable; a tube amp always needs to have some kind of speaker load. Use the NORMAL channel of the amp for bass.

The Dual Showman is comparable to the Twin Reverb, and many bassists used the more powerful Showman rather than the 50 watt Bassmans of the day. You should be okay in that regard, though if you had one of the newer Twin Reissues with the PCB boards, I would definitely use some fan cooling if you needed to push it hard. And expect some accelerated tube wear.

I like the tortoise guard on Fullerton Red. Good choice!

TGIF!

Bill

And that guy from Level 42 is AMAZING!

[The Black Page]

And that guy from Level 42 is AMAZING!

X2 on mark king bill.the man is phenomenal
Looks like we share a love for alesis drum machines as well.been a decade since I was tech savvy but back then I still hadn't heard a thing pound for pound get within a galaxy of them.are they still the standard of sorts within their price range bill?
Cheers..

[Brock]

Know any other "must see" music documentaries?

* Anvil: The Story of Anvil
* Beautiful Dreamer: Brian Wilson and the Story of SMiLE

In the so amazingly bad it's amusing category is "Paul McCartney Really Is Dead: The Last Testament of George Harrison". Not a must see by any means, though. (This review looks on the mark: http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/45598/pa ... -harrison/ )

How many of you guitarists double on bass (another near pun...)? Any of you the other way around - bass players fudging it on guitar? And for those of you playing bass, what amps are you using? I intend to use my all tube 100W '70s Fender Twin clone while I'm getting started, I've tested it with a baritone thats lying around here and it sounds mighty! Anything I should be careful of, bar blowing/burning out the speakers (they're individually rated for 100W and are full range PA speakers anyway)?[/quote]

I have a few four string guitars around here I use for guitar sounds. Here's a modded Danelectro Mod 7 (not pictured) seven string guitar with every other string off, leaving E, A, D, and G (at guitar pitch).

[youtube]AF2R_LubbnY[/youtube]

Here's the same guitar doing scrappy rhythm and also the lead parts on a different song:
[youtube]dKUYe2P6sMY[/youtube]

...oh, and video actually showing the Dano in action. Notice that I play with my hands, not a pick. The red bass in the video is a 1984 G&L SB-2 (first style). Jump 3 minutes into the clip.
[youtube]BJHOGrdS2z4[/youtube]

[louis cyfer]

i don't really think of brock as a guitar player, or even a bass player. i think of him more as a brilliant lyricist.

[KenC]

Jamie,

I've been a bassist from the start. Learning the bass can be a great way to really understand how songs are put together. They are a lot of fun to play, too.

A red/tort SB-1 or LB-100 would be nice. FWIW, I would suggest getting your hands on a couple of Fender Precisions and Jazz Basses (if no G&Ls are available) to get a feel for different nut widths. A lot of guitar players find it easier to get used to a 1.5" nut, which is standard on the SB-1. The 1.75" width (as found on the LB-100) can be an entirely different playing experience.

If you really want the classic Motown tone from a G&L, try to track down an early '80s L-1000. I had the chance to A/B a '64 Precision (like James Jamerson's "Funk Machine") against an '80 or '81 L-1000 last summer. The neck profiles felt identical to me, but the 'Wunkay had more thump. You should be able to do very well with an SB-1 or LB-100 too. If you're going for that '60s Motown sound, strings will be one of the most important factors. Anything other than La Bella Deep Talkin' stainless flats or Original 1954s will miss the sound.

I've been playing my basses through a 4x10 Fender Bassman Ten for over thirty years, and so far the only maintenance or repair I've needed was new caps and tubes last summer. For the past couple of years I've also used a Gallien Kruger MB-150 for my upright and as a practice amp for the electrics. I've been pleased with the volume and tone for both instruments. They aren't exactly cheap new, but they have been around for over thirty years and deals can be had on the older ones. I picked up one from the early 80s that wasn't working for about $40. A couple of days at a GK-authorized technician and $100 later, it was sounding just as good as my new one.

Ken

[blargfromouterspace]

Thanks Ken, very helpful post. I was at a shop the other day and tried P's and J's out, and as usual preferred the sound of a P. The G&L #12 neck (1.625" nut) seems on paper like it'd be the best bet. Pretty sure I'll be getting an LB-100 and throwing a set of those flats you recommend on it! I sold a heap of stuff this weekend and have enough to pay half of it off already, now I just gotta decide on the colour...

[KenC]

The G&L #12 neck (1.625" nut) seems on paper like it'd be the best bet.

That's the same as the original SB series and El Toro. I find these to be very comfortable.

now I just gotta decide on the colour...

I've been running through different bass configurations on the Builder lately (for the 1.5" neck width and sounds I don't currently have). When I do pull the trigger, it will most likely be for an L-1500 in Spanish Copper Metallic. The other possibility would be a fretless SB-2. That one would be Belair Green with a cream guard.

You mentioned Fullerton Red. I can't picture that with a tortie guard, but I think it would look really nice with cream.

Ken

[blargfromouterspace]

You mentioned Fullerton Red. I can't picture that with a tortie guard, but I think it would look really nice with cream.

Ken

Here you go. I'd go for a satin-frost finish on the body too. Spanish copper would looks great too

[zapcosongs]

Holy <censored word>!

Mark D. and Gary W. crossing paths again in time. Stunning and stellar!

Glad I decided to check in. It's really been too long but things have been crazy. Regardless....

I have two bass guitars (both Leo-era G&Ls) and a bass amp but I don't play bass. I'm not going to try to hijack this historic thread, but a (maybe) great future LR topic just now occurs to me and has to do with "anticipatory or aspirational gas."

I wonder how many other folks (like me) have bought gear for an instrument that we don't actually play, but hope and maybe expect to some day.????

Lots of great responses from lots of great members of all longevity on this here thread. Bully! - ed

[KenC]

I wonder how many other folks (like me) have bought gear for an instrument that we don't actually play, but hope and maybe expect to some day.????

Great to see you back Ed! That would be a great topic. After several months of waiting, I have a Moog synth inbound to Atomic Music right now. This will not only be my first synth, but also the first instrument I've bought new since 1986. The last time I attempted to get sound out of a synth was in the 80s.

I hope all is going well for you. Looking forward to you getting back here more often!

Ken