Comanche problem

[bluesywoosy]

Hi
I'm a newbie here but not in making music. I am German and my passion for more than 35 years is playing blues.
Recently my "G&L - family" got a new baby, a very very nice Comanche, which I imported from the US.

First to say this guitar is as perfect built as my others (S-500, Bluesboy, Asat deluxe, all US made), but I have problems with the sound.
When the volume pot is turned to its maximum, there is some kind of harsh distortion. When I turn the pot back to 90% it's better, but it also seems to loose treble.
That's not really satisfactory and I didn't have this before with G&L-guitars ( at guitars from other brands it was quite normal, even expensive ones)

Are there any ideas, what I can do?

I have myself informed about the electronics and it seems, that G&L uses a treble bleed network in all guitars. So it should not work in this way.

Sorry my English ist not perfect, I know this well.

Thanks

Ulrich

[helle-man]

Hi

When the volume pot is turned to its maximum, there is some kind of harsh distortion. When I turn the pot back to 90% it's better, but it also seems to loose treble.
That's not really satisfactory and I didn't have this before with G&L-guitars

Are there any ideas, what I can do?

Need more info - What amp or recording device, what amp settings etc.?

Z coils are pretty hot PU's and can easily distort inputs on amps/devices. I don't know why the treble is getting rolled back at 90%. It shouldn't unless the electronics inside have been modified.

My 2¢
Will

[bluesywoosy]

hi

I use either a Fender Supersonic Head with 15" cab,or a german amp called Madamp (Plexi Clone) and for practising a Peavey Delta Blues.
It's all the same, it doesn't depend on what amp I am using.

I know that the pu's are quite hot, but it sounds harsh, hard and it is not possible to get a smooth crunch. It's hard to explain. The bridge Pu sounds never really good, compared with my S-500 or Bluesboy.
There aren't any changes made, it's a new guitar.
Is it possible that they have used the wrong electronic parts?
(I once had a japanese guitar, where the pots were not signed correct).



But it's a G&L ! ! !

[Craig]

hi

I use either a Fender Supersonic Head with 15" cab,or a german amp called Madamp (Plexi Clone) and for practising a Peavey Delta Blues.
It's all the same, it doesn't depend on what amp I am using.

I know that the pu's are quite hot, but it sounds harsh, hard and it is not possible to get a smooth crunch. It's hard to explain. The bridge Pu sounds never really good, compared with my S-500 or Bluesboy.
There aren't any changes made, it's a new guitar.
Is it possible that they have used the wrong electronic parts?
(I once had a japanese guitar, where the pots were not signed correct).



But it's a G&L ! ! !

You might take a look at this post: Comanches For Dummies Redux by BoogieBill (and no, I am not calling you a dummy). It might be helpful.

[bluesywoosy]

Thanks a lot. The post is very interesting. I have to think about it, but it could be a way to that what I want.

[bluesywoosy]

What I find strang: I've often read about the similar sounds of the comanche and the S-500. My S-500 (built 1996) doesn't have the behaviour I described. this one sounds perfect for my ears and there is a great difference between this one and the new Comanche.

[helle-man]

What I find strang: I've often read about the similar sounds of the comanche and the S-500. My S-500 (built 1996) doesn't have the behaviour I described. this one sounds perfect for my ears and there is a great difference between this one and the new Comanche.

In my opinion, they're nothing alike. Using Z coils is like trying to ride a wild bronco - You're probably going to get thrown off the first few times, but if you keep getting back in the saddle, you'll be rewarded with a nice ride.

I find Z coils hot and bright. You have to be able to address both when you're playing. I use a compressor a lot, so that takes care of the hot peaks because it squashes them. But the treble also needs to be kinda "toned down", especially on the bridge PU. On my WR model I had the factory put 1,400 extra windings on the bridge PU. That made it a little hotter, but it also rolled the treble back on it. A standard rear Z coil will rip your head off with its brightness.

Whenever I do guitar clinics I'm always presented with different amps to use night to night. My method to setting the amp controls is this: I always adjust the amp to the neck PU first. The other PU's usually will be pretty close after that. But the bridge PU will probably need the treble rolled off on the guitar to sound even with the others, unless it has extra windings.

My 2¢
Will Ray

[Lacking Talent]

Thanks for sharing that, Will.

[Boogie Bill]

And I do it the opposite...I set my bridge pickup first, adjusting the amp's treble and presence controls for the max treble I will need from that pickup. I usually boost the amp's mids. I definitely set my Comanche darker than Will does his Z-3. The neck pickup will be nice and throaty, yet clear and not muddy. I set my PTB at T at 8 --10, and the B-5 and go from there. I want it big and fat.

You may want to experiment with a different preamp tube in the V1 socket. The Z-coils really demand a lot from the preamp tubes.

Keep at it...don't give up. You will be rewarded!

Good luck!

Bill

[NickHorne]

This is a subject close to my heart!
The Z-coil is a remarkable pickup, but it surprised and puzzled me before I really got to love it.
This is no criticism in any way at all; Leo Fender's original lap-steel / Broadcaster pups were a departure, to say the least, from Gibson, Rickenbacker, Bigsby and others all those 60-odd years back. And look where those Fender guitars eventually took us...

I'm not saying that Comanches and WRs are going to bring in a new Rock'n'Roll, just that Leo Fender kept following his (very good) engineering / musical hunches right to the end of his life, and the Z-coil is a actually a great thing.
It is the only pickup that does all these things: it bucks hum, senses the strings at a single point (enabling more character and expression than a traditional humbucker can hope to do), and gives the option to balance the output levels of all the strings properly.
It also has the capacity for gorgeous brightness AND depth, P90-ish toughness, and to be either a Strat or a Tele without a load of guitar / amp / pedal swapping around.

But technically, it can also embarrass the crap out of most every amp that we regularly use for less adventurous-pupped guitars. Our majority habit of setting guitar tone pots at max and volume not far behind, for the majority of good sounds of the last 50 years with the preferred guitars of those 50 years, just deepens this puzzle.
I believe Will Ray just expressed the unusual aspect of the Z's really well. I would expand on his description just a little, to say that, in particular, the bright end is unusually hot.

Now, I'm sure CLF was well pleased with this. It seems in keeping with his sonic territory.

My Will Ray is actually the one guitar that I would keep if I could have only one. But the romance was pretty on / off in the early stages, while I figured her out!
It is the hot brights that confuse. I regularly use the tone on the guitar at around 4, and now find this quite normal. I still have uses for 10, just not all the time; but if I want really stingy top, I've got it (60's Clarence White Bakersfield Tele?).
I don't use the Bright switch on a Fender amp with the WR. It doesn't need it, and the immediately post-tonestack stage doesn't like the extended top-end of the Z-coil being boosted even more. If the amp isn't set too bright, I get a really nice expressive dynamic in the treble end of the sound; but otherwise there can be an unmusical sort if "Zit" icepicky spike. Remember we're considering settings on amps that Fender designed to go with pickups that he wasn't completely satisfied with back in the 50s, or close descendants of those amp designs.

I actually like using extra-bright wound strings (Pro Steels) on the WR, and then moderating my overall brightness as above; I find this evens out the sound / volume of the wound / unwound strings better than any guitar I've ever played (and I'm getting oldish), and the bottom end can get a big "piano" quality to it while the upper registers are sweet. And it rocks too with absolutely no problem.
And jazzy country folk-rocky all sorts of things, so well that as I said, it's my desert island guitar.

It's a bit of a "New wine / Old bottles" issue really, with our habitual guitar / amp settings. But I've come to really love the Z-coil, same as Bill.
Keep exploring! The z-coil is kind of "outside" our regular experience / knowlwdge, and there's not much actual advice about it. But I find it's great.

PS (edit): I found my Deluxe Reverb reissue's stock Eminence Legend was not compatible! I hadn't liked it before, but with the WR I thoroughly hated it. Some Fender marketing team's idea of how bright a DRR should be made to sound in order to maximise sales. And this was just the speaker's fault; brittle, thin, papery and small-sounding. A Red White and Blues made a very nice, complete solution.
As with any setup, good preamp valve choice is advisable too.

[helle-man]

I found my Deluxe Reverb reissue's stock Eminence Legend was not compatible! I hadn't liked it before, but with the WR I thoroughly hated it. Some Fender marketing team's idea of how bright a DRR should be made to sound in order to maximise sales. And this was just the speaker's fault; brittle, thin, papery and small-sounding.

Funny, but when I'm doing guitar clinics, I prefer to use a Fender Deluxe Reverb whenever possible. It's the perfect wattage (20 w), 12" speaker, all tube and I can always get a great sound without blasting the audience. The treble never was a problem.

That said, I've always believed the enemy of good tone is the overuse of treble. One thing I learned from playing in the Hellecasters was how to use an Ibanez Tube Screamer. I watched how John set his (he had 2 in his pedal board). He would roll the treble off on the TS so that when you're overdriving the signal, it doesn't get "harsh".

He had some original TS-808's and he said the new (at the time - early 90's) cheap, black Ibanez TS-5's were just as good as his older ones because Ibanez went back to using the original specs. I remember when we were in NYC and went into Manny's and practically bought them out of TS-5's because they were blowing them out the door for $29.99. It's still my distortion pedal of choice even today, and I always keep close tabs on that treble control.

My 2¢
Will

[NickHorne]

I actually love the Deluxe Reverb; it was just that mine's an "old" (1993) one, when that unlovely speaker was fitted, though I believe the DRRI's stock speaker was soon changed for something much better. I think it's a great circuit, there's a really good range of tones in it. Plus the overdrive sounds great and, as you say, 20watts is a very useful volume.

Good to read your pedal info. Must look into one, been putting it off. The Deluxe R almost does it all, but I've been idle about the tubescreamer-type department!

Most definitely agree about excess top-end being negative.
And, must repeat, the WR Asat is just great.

[MJ Slaughter]

That said, I've always believed the enemy of good tone is the overuse of treble.

Good tip/reminder to some of us older guys who now have some built in low pass filtering going on with our ears. I always get a little concerned when I see a 50+ year old sound man.

[Elwood]

I always get a little concerned when I see a 50+ year old sound man.

[Fumble fingers]

do you guy's usually use a compressor stomp box with the Z coils ??

[NickHorne]

I do like the sound and feel of my Diamond (optical) compressor stomp generally. I like it with various guitars in lots of situations.
I don't find I "need to" use it with the Z-coils, if that was your question, though; I like the pickups untreated too, very much so.
I'm not using my WR for Will's typical sound, it must be said. Mine is usually doing a lovely Bill Frisell (tone territory only, just wish this player was as good) or a pretty good Clarence White (wish this player was as good)..... but sounds are good both sweet or tangy. It can do a very good "smoulder" of dirty-ish twang which is nicely touch-sensitive and expressive, best with neck+bridge pups selection, or bridge alone.
I agree about the Z's sheer output being demanding of amp input stages. It can be spiky until you get to understand how best to use it. The comp pedal can buffer this issue, I guess, but I'm doing well with keeping the guitar's volume back a bit with some in reserve, into a wholly valve amp (Deluxe Reverb with some slight treble-calming mods, and Red White and Blues Eminence). Maxing the volume does scorch a bit, but is very useable!