I'm intersted in getting a "Leo era" guitar , not in any hurry and don't know what I need or want .....
that said , I was thinking of something that would compliment my current G&L a 1998 ASAT Classic and soon to be here 2013 legacy and 2013 SC2 ....
been watching ebay and learning , for example there are a couple early F100's , one is a series 1 and the other is a series 2 , whats the diff and why the series 2 more rare ?? ..... not necessarily wanting something rare but its pretty obvious that I'm lacking leo era knowledge and you guy's are the best !!
if you don't mind , recomend some models for me to keep a eye out for in the future
Definitely take the time to enjoy the ASAT Classic and get familiar with the incoming guitars. That will probably give you the best perspective on the sounds you like the most and the gaps you will want to fill. Looking and learning can be a great experience, though.
The first word of advice I'd give on Leo-era instruments is to ignore just about everything you read on eBay. It seems like most sellers will find a way to portray their instrument as the ultimate rarity. Unless you end up on a quest to acquire every variant of a particular model (as Jos is with ASATs, and GGJaguar currently is with L-1000s) there really aren't a whole lot of "unbelievably rare" G&Ls. The general consensus on this board has been that a "rarebird" is a model that had total production of less than 400. The exception is the Broadcaster, since they don't tend to show up in circulation very often. If a seller tries to portray something as a rarity just because out of thousands made there are only three in the Registry with that exact finish, bridge and fretboard, I would normally not pay a premium. For example, my Sunburst first-style SB-2 is one of only five in the Registry. It may be worth a couple of bucks more than one of the more common black ones (all other factors being equal), but it certainly wouldn't become a $1500 rarity when the going rate for these is around $600-$800. Of course, a buyer who is trying to round out a collection of SB-2s with an example of every finish may think of this as a Hole Grail instrument and be willing to pay accordingly.
You can find lists of the "official" rarebirds on the main page of the Registry, or in the Knowledgebase. The ones that hardly ever show up on the market in my experience are the G-200, Interceptor (all styles) and Comanche VI. When these do show up for sale they tend to be north of $2000. A lot of times it's luck of the draw what pops up for sale. I never expected to see - much less own - an SC-1, but over the past year I've had two show up for sale at very reasonable prices when I've been on the lookout, and have seen at least two others in the Marketplace.
The best places I could recommend for learning about older G&Ls are George Fullerton's book "Guitars by George and Leo", and GGJaguar's website. The Knowledgebase postings "List of G&L Rarebird Instruments (USA)", "Production List of G&L Instruments" and "List of Pickups Used in G&L Guitars" are also great sources of information. And of course, just reading the threads on this site and asking questions...
Back to your original question about F-100s, neither "Series" would be considered rare. These were G&L's main production instrument for the first two years, and continued to be sold as special orders for several more years. The only difference is the fretboard radius: a neck with a 12" radius board got a "Series I" decal, and a 7.5" radius board got a "Series II" decal. AFAIK, the production numbers were comparable between the two variants. At least they seem to come up for sale with the same frequency.
For a first Leo-era guitar, I would probably decide on the general style and sound you're looking for and then wait for the right example to show up. If the Strat sound ends up being what you want, the S-500 (both styles), Nighthawk, Skyhawk, SC-3 (all three styles) or ASAT III could potentially fit the bill for an MFD-equipped guitar. If you were looking for tone at the darker end of the spectrum, you might want to wait for one with a mahogany body to show up (which would rule out the SC-3, ASAT III and probably the Skyhawk too). Sometimes the differences are only in the shape of the body; for example, the Nighthawk, Skyhawk, SC-3 and ASAT III all used the same pickups. The best thing IMO is to read, read and read some more, and have some ideas in mind so you're ready when something pops up on the market and you are in a position to buy.
FWIW, I wouldn't start with a hunt for a specific rarebird (or any randon rarebird, for that matter). There were a lot of wonderful production guitars that are relatively easy to find and inexpensive. Second and third style SC-3s (the ones with Strat-ish bodies) and Invaders (the original version) seem to be at the lower end of the price spectrum right now and can be found in the $500-700 range without a who lot of searching. Skyhawks, player-grade S-500s and some late 80s ASATs are a step up in price but are still pretty easy to find. Beyond that chance starts playing more of a role, IMO. Any of these could be a great introduction to the typical neck profiles and vibe of the older G&Ls, without the premium price tag of many of the less common models.
I stumbled across my first four G&Ls. The first was a refinished '83 SB-1, which I bought back in 2000 when my Fender Jazz was giving me neck pain. I had heard good things about G&Ls, but really went for that one because it was very light and cost exactly what I had available to spend. The second was an ASAT Classic which I found by chance in 2010 when work had me living in an apartment 500 miles from home. I needed something to keep me sane, and thought that would be my "forever" guitar. Two months later on a trip home (at the time) to Cincinnati, I saw a reasonably priced Legacy at Guitar Center and thought "what the heck, I've always wanted a good Strat". When I took it for a setup back in DC, I learned that the truss rod was toast. I returned it to a GC in the DC area, where they happened to have an S-500 that was almost an exact trade. I knew nothing about older G&Ls at that point, and believed the salesman's opinion that it had been heavily modified. I liked the feel, so I went ahead with the trade. Turned out to be an all-original 'hog body '82. That was the one that started the fascination for me. For about a year I only purchased G&Ls that turned up locally, and were reasonably priced. That gave me a good feeling for what I wanted when the time came to start hunting for guitars.
good advice Ken ..... there is a nice 1988 ASAT on ebay that is a beauty , I'm not going to pull the trigger but its from a Cincinatti store so I could go and actually "play before pay" verses buying something across the country ..... something like that is probably what I'm going to get and not necessarily a ASAT although a ASAT would be fine .... I want something in very good condition but doesn't have to be perfect never been out of the case either .... I'll be patient and wait for something real nice that doesn't break the bank ....
thats it .. the 1988 ASAT from cincinnati , I thought it was priced too high also , very nice guitar ... but thats basically what I want , nice clean original with no mods
And there's this one. Seller claims the Kahler has been done by the factory, but it's not, what a Leo era guitar is supposed to be and the price is too high too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-L-ASAT-1986-B ... 27d1dfd697
These are all way out of line on price, IMO. I currently own two '86 ASATs and recently sold an '88 to a friend - all with maple bodies. I bought them all in 2011 and 2012, and paid between $600-$750 for each one. I sold the '88 for $700 IIRC, just to make room for an inbound bass. I'd call the '88 Good condition, and the '86s EC to EC+.
The Kahler-equipped ASAT in the third ad is identical to one of mine. Very few were made with Kahlers - seven Broadcasters and three '86 ASATs in the Registry - but they did leave the factory that way. Mine was sold in 2011 by a Guitar Center for over $1000. I hated watching it sit there on their site, but I couldn't justify that price. I brooded about missing it for a while, but then last summer it showed up at the same store for 2/3 of the original price. I didn't let it get away a second time, and it is definitely a keeper. That ASAT and an SC-1 have gotten about 80% of my playing time for almost a year now.
I'm far from expert, but I hope more will chime in. I have G&L's as well and I like G&L. Planning on a next purchase as well but not in a hurry. Been reading up on early 80's maple bodied S-500's as well as a maple bodied Skyhawk and ones with a maple neck. So been reading up on them, ran into Legacy model so that's on the radar as well now. I've had a heavily modified fender strat but eventually traded that for fender vibrolux amp. I had been trying to decide or feel I need to have a fender strat but haven't been compelled to get one. I eventually got a String N Things Custom which is a strat type, rosewood board and 3 way switch, looks like a ESP. So this maybe be my fender strat type guitar. I guess at this point its the body wood that could decide for me for early 80's models. That Sc-1 is really nice and should read up on it, since I don't know anything about one picked guitars and why they exist (no offence pleas.) G&L's are nice guitars and should be taken as they are and not be turned into strats. So I hope players with experience with G&L guitars chime in and why they like it so much. So I will eagerly wait to read this thread.
And there's this one. Seller claims the Kahler has been done by the factory, but it's not, what a Leo era guitar is supposed to be and the price is too high too: http://www.ebay.com/itm/G-L-ASAT-1986-B ... 27d1dfd697
Fumble fingers wrote:Will , what's your favorite "thing" about the older SC2 ?
is it the sound ?
the look and feel ??
weight ?
thanks for sharing the picture , its a beauty !!
Eric
All of the above. The pickups from the 80's sound a little different than later ones for some reason. Not necessarily better, just different. And the black powder coated metal bridge sounds different too. Again, not better, just different. And don't get me started on the older ASAT Specials with the powder coated black pickguards - Whoa!
helle-man wrote:
All of the above. The pickups from the 80's sound a little different than later ones for some reason. Not necessarily better, just different. And the black powder coated metal bridge sounds different too. Again, not better, just different. And don't get me started on the older ASAT Specials with the powder coated black pickguards - Whoa!
I'm holding a Himalayan Blue SC-1 in my hands as I read this thread, but somehow the pics of your SC-2 still manage to make me GASsy. That is a beautiful guitar, even with the extra pickup!
Fumble fingers wrote:Will , what's your favorite "thing" about the older SC2 ?
is it the sound ?
the look and feel ??
weight ?
thanks for sharing the picture , its a beauty !!
Eric
Eric,
My SCs are all extremely resonant. The necks are comfortable to me, and I really like the feel of the scaled-down bodies. Somehow they don't feel like slab bodies to me. I've never laid one out beside a Strat-type guitar, but I suspect the edges of the SC bodies would fall right around where the contours start on a typical Strat-type. My SC-1s and SC-2 are all in the 6.5-7.5 pound range.
My SCs are all extremely resonant. The necks are comfortable to me, and I really like the feel of the scaled-down bodies. Somehow they don't feel like slab bodies to me. I've never laid one out beside a Strat-type guitar, but I suspect the edges of the SC bodies would fall right around where the contours start on a typical Strat-type. My SC-1s and SC-2 are all in the 6.5-7.5 pound range.
And remember they did some Broadcasters with the Kahler, so I am not surprise to see some early ASATs with them, too.
OK, thanks, at first I'd thought, that could be the only one.
nice video. the clean sounds are very nice. the dirty ones are a bit iffy, especially on the neck pup. maybe the pod has a hard time handling those pups?
louis cyfer wrote:
nice video. the clean sounds are very nice. the dirty ones are a bit iffy, especially on the neck pup. maybe the pod has a hard time handling those pups?
Thanks Louis! There's a clipping led on the pod, but that usually doesn't light up, so it might be OK.
As I wrote in the video description, while the recording I didn't change anything on the pod, so the clean and the dirty sounds are from exactly the same (virtual) amp setting, changes from clean to dirty are made with the guitars volume knob alone. In fact a lot of people believe that isn't possible with a modeler, as it's digital and therefore it cannot handle different input levels correctly, like a real amp does. But that isn't true.
Dirty sounds from the neck pickup are always a little bit critical and I guess I would have fumbled a on the "drive" and the "presence" knob, if I had to have that sound optimized.
My first G&L purchase was advertised as 1984 F-100 II. Rosewood fretboard, natural ash body. Skinny neck with a headtock of what G&L's are today. Its heavy and according to my fish scale, its 11 pounds. Maybe I need a more accurate scale. I took the neck off and found out the neck was made in April 17, 1984 and the body in July 27, 1982. So I may have one that was renecked. The bridge number for what its worth is: G008901. I haven't had a chance to do much with it other than change the strings to .09's. I need to clean out the pots and make sure all the solders are sound. It has its own sound, but need a wide strap. I'm gonna have to weight it again since it seems too heavy. It feels really solid and could use it as a sledge hammer. Anyone have a heavy G&L as well?
Opened the control cavity to check the pots. It seems like the finish was srtipped and the original color was red. It now had a nice satin finish and really smooth. The pickups have the allen type adjustable pole piences. If anything its mine. Got to find some info osf how to get dates from the pots so I can trully know the body if from 82.
I have a new SC2 coming ..... not sure what I want yet .... probably wait and get used to my Legacy and SC2 when they come in ... Legacy should be here soon : ) .... I'll keep a eye out and try to keep the education coming
Tundra wrote:My first G&L purchase was advertised as 1984 F-100 II. Rosewood fretboard, natural ash body. Skinny neck with a headtock of what G&L's are today. Its heavy and according to my fish scale, its 11 pounds. Maybe I need a more accurate scale. I took the neck off and found out the neck was made in April 17, 1984 and the body in July 27, 1982. So I may have one that was renecked. The bridge number for what its worth is: G008901. <snip> The pickups have the allen type adjustable pole piences. If anything its mine. Got to find some info osf how to get dates from the pots so I can trully know the body if from 82.
A two-year gap between body and neck production is not unheard of. Normally they are closer together, but not always. I believe an '84 neck would have the modern headstock, and it definitely would have bi-cut construction. I believe the hex pole pieces would be consistent with 1984 production. I'm pretty sure they would have still been slotted in '82, but can't say for sure. 1982 production would also have had a bright chrome control plate. In any case, it would be accurate to call the guitar an '84 if it left the shop that year, even though the body may have been sitting on a rack for a couple of years by that point.
Tundra wrote:Its heavy and according to my fish scale, its 11 pounds. Maybe I need a more accurate scale. <snip> I'm gonna have to weight it again since it seems too heavy. It feels really solid and could use it as a sledge hammer. Anyone have a heavy G&L as well?
I haven't weighed all of mine, but I do have some real heavyweights. Several guitars are up in the 9-10 pound range, and my 'hog L-2000E is just shy of eleven pounds. The 'hog L-1000 isn't far below that. I remember back in the day, when many people claimed heavy guitars were more resonant...
amybe just play as moany used early G&l'aS AS YOUCAN DECIDE ON YOUR NEXT ADVENTURE. LOVE LOKKING FOR A PARTICULAR MODEL AND ONE LAND ON YOUR LAP WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT. I'VE READ WHERE MOST WOUL SLOOK FOR THR MOST STRAT LIKE G&L OR THR MOST TELE TYPE. AND MOST GET DISAPOINTED THAT THEY RE AREN'T GETTING THAT STRAT OR TELE SOUND. BEST ANSWER IS TO GET A STRAT OR TEL IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THAT SOUND SO KEEP CHECK YOUR LOCL VINTAGE GUITAR STORE. I THINK IF YOU TAKE AS THEY are rhen you'll be pleasantly surprised and you'll hav e fun exploring your new G&l. DOn't forget to check out MUiscman Sabre ii and ii means 7.5 or 9.5 fretboard radius
Tundra wrote:WELL FUMBLE FINGERS LOOKS LIKE YOU SHOUL DLOOKFOAR EARLY 80'S SC 2 1 OR 2
Tundra wrote:amybe just play as moany used early G&l'aS AS YOUCAN DECIDE ON YOUR NEXT ADVENTURE. LOVE LOKKING FOR A PARTICULAR MODEL AND ONE LAND ON YOUR LAP WHEN YOU LEAST EXPECT IT. I'VE READ WHERE MOST WOUL SLOOK FOR THR MOST STRAT LIKE G&L OR THR MOST TELE TYPE. AND MOST GET DISAPOINTED THAT THEY RE AREN'T GETTING THAT STRAT OR TELE SOUND. BEST ANSWER IS TO GET A STRAT OR TEL IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THAT SOUND SO KEEP CHECK YOUR LOCL VINTAGE GUITAR STORE. I THINK IF YOU TAKE AS THEY are rhen you'll be pleasantly surprised and you'll hav e fun exploring your new G&l. DOn't forget to check out MUiscman Sabre ii and ii means 7.5 or 9.5 fretboard radius
Does someone need a new keyboard? It appears that your Cap Lock is stuck
These two posts of yours are very difficult to read. Perhaps reviewing before posting might help.
points well taken. CRaig I will try to type better its human rather than equipmnet. I guess what i tried to say to visist s s many guitar sores an play as many G&l'sss BUT read up on the models he's interested in. I 'm far form music stores an d do ai eneded up with alot of G&L's. DIDN'T want to pay the expense of paying potage back, but I ENJOY THEM NONE THE LESS. Th LAST MODEL I GOT WAAS AN 86 ASAT. MY NEXT ONE IS AN MAPLE S-500 OR SKYHAWK. BUT MAY SERRLW FOR A S3 INTEAD. YOU Reallly can't go wrong eith G&L. oh yeah my nighthawk was renecked by G&l. so its good as new. have a musicman SABre II which is pretty nice and worth lookinhg into. I was surprised it was strat size and not huge like the stingray guitar. I like the maple neck on the stingray.
Tundra wrote:points well taken. CRaig I will try to type better its human rather than equipmnet. I guess what i tried to say to visist s s many guitar sores an play as many G&l'sss BUT read up on the models he's interested in. I 'm far form music stores an d do ai eneded up with alot of G&L's. DIDN'T want to pay the expense of paying potage back, but I ENJOY THEM NONE THE LESS. Th LAST MODEL I GOT WAAS AN 86 ASAT. MY NEXT ONE IS AN MAPLE S-500 OR SKYHAWK. BUT MAY SERRLW FOR A S3 INTEAD. YOU Reallly can't go wrong eith G&L. oh yeah my nighthawk was renecked by G&l. so its good as new. have a musicman SABre II which is pretty nice and worth lookinhg into. I was surprised it was strat size and not huge like the stingray guitar. I like the maple neck on the stingray.
point not taken. your caps lock is still on at random, and the spelling is ridiculous. might want to actually read the post before hitting submit.
so sorry wil stop posting I guess what they call a minor stroke is just bad as a major one. but none the less I appreciate you reading them and I'm sorry I did a horrible job at it. I'm still recovering but I won't post unti I'm sure I an hit the the right keys. iT's tottally frustating. You should try it for thr hell of it. You can say you've been to hell and bck.. adnd thankfully NO leo was not there .
Thanks
Tundra:
Tundra wrote:h LAST MODEL I GOT WAAS AN 86 ASAT. MY NEXT ONE IS AN MAPLE S-500 OR SKYHAWK. BUT MAY SERRLW FOR A S3 INTEAD.
Tundra,
I had somewhat overlooked that statement, until pointed out by KenC above, but it is interesting for 2 reasons. For one, many seem to think that the middle large MFD is in the way of the picking hand. And secondly, I have come to experience myself how incredibly hard it is to find one in the first place. I have no clue how many got produced in the end but it can't be too many the more since one of the requirements for producing the Trinity was that surplus S-3 pickguards had to be used.
But to me, now finally owning one and not experiencing the former complaint, it is a great, great guitar.
Tundra, I had a feeling that something was not right, but had thought that it was a keyboard issue. I just wish I was right.
I do hope for your speedy and complete recovery. Of course you are welcome here and please don't hesitate to post.
Tundra wrote:so sorry wil stop posting I guess what they call a minor stroke is just bad as a major one. but none the less I appreciate you reading them and I'm sorry I did a horrible job at it. I'm still recovering but I won't post unti I'm sure I an hit the the right keys. iT's tottally frustating. You should try it for thr hell of it. You can say you've been to hell and bck.. adnd thankfully NO leo was not there .
Thanks
Tundra:
i apologize, i didn't realize it was a medical issue. it is completely understandable. it will get better, i work with quite a few stroke victims, annd while it takes time and can be very frustrating, things get better. please ignore my earlier statement.
Tundra wrote:so sorry wil stop posting I guess what they call a minor stroke is just bad as a major one. but none the less I appreciate you reading them and I'm sorry I did a horrible job at it. I'm still recovering but I won't post unti I'm sure I an hit the the right keys. iT's tottally frustating. You should try it for thr hell of it. You can say you've been to hell and bck.. adnd thankfully NO leo was not there .
Hey Tundra … you’ve been around the forum for a while now … has this been a recent event – within the last week perhaps?
On the issue of stroke … towards the end of 2010 my wife had a stroke following a procedure to address a large aneurism pressuring her optic nerves. As you say, things were frustrating for her and the family for a while but the doctors assured us that she would recover - and that she has. She’s now back working and anyone who met her wouldn’t realise she had had the stroke. The key is following clinical advice and perseverance … so don’t retreat … and don’t stop posting. This is a very supportive place so use it and us to provide some of that all important stimulus as part of your recovery!
… and I can assure you that Craig at least will fully understand where you are at.
On people’s reactions …. Ignore it. This is about you not them! People don’t know what they don’t know but unfortunately too many are prematurely judgemental or worse still, just plain unthinking when reacting to things they see but of which they have no circumstantial understanding. Early in 2010 and before my wife’s condition was diagnosed, my daughter suffered a serious and life threatening illness that amongst other things caused significant weight loss (and no she wasn’t anorexic!). At 43kg (95lbs) it took me weeks to encourage her to leave the house and then some a**hole walks past her an says “you look like you could do with a good meal love!”. She cried for days and took a couple of months to really get over it! She’s now almost fully recovered and started a new job last month but as a result of that one smarta**e comment I’m now far more aware of how the things I do might affect others and just a little less forgiving of those who are not.
