E String Going Sharp About a Quarter Tone

[MJ Slaughter]

When I first got my Legacy Special it stayed in tune great even using the tremolo. I later replaced the stock turners, ones with the slot and hole through the shaft, with Schaller locking tuners. Ever since I've had problems with the low E string going out of tune with the least bit of tremolo use. I swapped back to the original tuner, E string only, lubed the nut slot with graphite lube and still the same problem. It's so bad that it will go sharp as much as a 1/4 tone. Pushing down, pulling up on the tremolo doesn't fix it. If I pull the string it will get much closer to correct pitch though still 10-15 cents sharp.

I'm at a loss so any suggestions would be welcomed. This is a new guitar and has not been abused. None of the other strings go out of tune. I changed strings as well with the same results.

[NickHorne]

Seems it's unlikely to be the fault of either of the tuners then.
The thing most likely to have changed, almost randomly, is the amount of wrap around the E tuner, and hence the angle over the back the nut.

I have locking tuners on my WR model, and love them.

BUT I wind my low E on "upwards", instead of the usual downward wind, and use a bit more wind than really needed on a locking peg, so that the angle of my low E behind the nut is similar to the other strings, instead of the much steeper angle that you usually get with F-type headstock layouts. It's still a bit steeper, but nothing like what I get if I wind the usual way. This definitely works for me.

You can also gently "floss" a nut slot with a bit of old guitar string of the right gauge, after wiping out any lube. A LITTLE metal polish on the flossing string can assist this process (but be sure to wipe it all out of the slot afterwards). This can be enough to gently ease the tuner side of the slot and make everything smooth. Be careful not to round over the other (fingerboard) end of the slot, don't put flossing pressure there; otherwise the string will rest somewhere behind the front edge, with undesirable results and a tech's bill. You just want to gently floss the TUNER side of the nut slot to smooth the string's exit there. Be aware and careful to avoid scratching any finish on neck / headstock. After, lube as before (Nut Sauce for me). And a new string.

Hope you're back in action soon.

[louis cyfer]

please post a pic of the headstock, that will help to give a much more definitive answer.

[MJ Slaughter]

Something new has starting happening. Tremolo is smooth from center pushing down but if I pull back then push down past center I feel a bit of a click. Almost like the bridge is hitting the body but most likely something going on at the post. This is on the bottom side post near where the arm is attached.

[Craig]

Check to see that there are felt washers, 2 for each post. Like this:



Is the bridge plate parallel with the body and set 2/16" above the body? See Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars.

[MJ Slaughter]

I'll check for the felt washers this week. I presume the only want to do that is loosen all tension, strings and springs, then pull the bridge out. Let me know if there is an easier way. From the bottom of the bridge plate to the body is 2/16" and it is parallel.

Have you ever seen a new guitar not have the felt washers?

[louis cyfer]

you don't have to loosen anything. it should be clearly visible.

[Boogie Bill]

I had this happen with an S-500 that was poorly set up. The bridge plate was too low and it would catch on the edge of the pickguard. Once the guitar was was put back to specs it was fine. Some random thoughts:

Are your tuner bushings tight? (Don't over-tighten.)

Typically this is a nut problem. I use the Big Bends Nut Sauce, even on my guitars with a teflon nut.

You can try lubing all of the friction points in the vibrato system. I might try a mini-drop of 3 in one oil on thr claw where the body screws go though, and where the spring loop fits over the claw post. Then a drop where the spring inserts into the vibrato block. You can use a rag to apply a light coat of oil to the springs. Run your finger over them to feel for any imperfections. They should be totally smooth. I like using the teflon Tri-Flow spray instead of the oil.

On a NEW guitar, it seems that it sometimes takes a few days for the pivot posts and the knife edge of the bridge plate to seat. Change the height of the bridge plate, and you might need a few more days of quavering to let it reset.

I have used Tri-Flow directly on the posts. Wipe off any excess.

Try using different strings. I like Fender Super Bullets since they have no double winding locks on the ball end. Look to see if you ball end wraps are touching the apex of the saddle...that can raise total havoc with tuning. Keep that wind away from crossing the saddle. If you have changed the relationship between the saddle height and the plate height, you can run into trouble. Get it back to factory specs.

Another thing to try is to leave enough extra string so you have a couple of wraps around the post on that E string. Yeah I know they're locking and you shouldn't have to do that. Likewise, you could have TOO MUCH wrap around the post.

The DFV is normally a dream. Admittedly the lube protocol is probably overkill. I even put the BBNS lube on the underside of the string trees! Look for these things and you'll probably find the problem.

Oh and I like your Mesa!

Good luck!

Bill

[MJ Slaughter]

I can't see that there are any felt washers. Please look at these pictures and let me know what you think. I am pushing down and the tremolo bar as I take the pictures.

[louis cyfer]

you would not see the felt washer from the front when you are pushing down. on the other hand it is pretty clear that the trem plate is hitting the pickguard.

[MJ Slaughter]

I loosened then pulled the pick guard back enough so there was no chance of contact with bridge yet it is still hitting on something. There are felt washers installed after all. I looked from the back and underneath the tremolo and could see them. I pulled the back plate off and couldn't see anything thing making contact with the body. I guess I'll take the bridge off and examine it more closely.

[louis cyfer]

my guess would be the nut at this point, and it would feel the same as a problem at the bridge would.