Guitar Body Shape Effects on Tone: G&L or Otherwise

[Halowords]

I have heard from people who are much more informed and authoritative than me that the body shape plays a role on tone. Nothing too ground-breaking there. However, one thing that I got from one conversation with a wood salesmen of some repute who also makes guitars was that in single-cuts the bass-side being uncut allowed for more energy giving it a fuller, richer, and somewhat more "magical" sound to the instrument. He was not saying that like it was the end-all/be-all or that it was actually magical. However, it got me wondering.

For those of you who have had a lot of single-cut and double-cuts of similar builds (say multiple ASATS, Teles, or LP-styles w/ Commanche's/Invaders/LP-double-cut/Strats/etc.) with similar pickups, do you find that generally speaking the single-cut styles sound fuller, richer, etc., or do you find that to be more an urban legend?

FWIW, my experience is that most double-cuts, or anything NOT a Les Paul style of single-cut, starts to lose mass, either due to the cut outs or the body being thinner. In comparison, the LP's and LP-style's I've had were a bit bassier than the double-cuts, however my Hamer Studio double cut seemed pretty "magical" sounding if a bit brighter and chimier, even acoustically. However, I do not have enough experience to know it that was the body design, mass, or just the pieces of wood used in the build. For those of you who have had (or currently have) a ton of experience with both styles of similar wood/built/pickups, I'd be curious if you've noticed any general trends.

-Cheers

[blargfromouterspace]

I don't believe that shape has any effect on the sound of a solid body guitar. Anyone who says otherwise either has truly exceptional hearing or is lying. YMMV.

[suave eddie]

I believe body shape has as much effect sonically as color.

[Lefty]

I believe body shape has as much effect sonically as color.

+1 - or the color of the pickguard or hardware

[Philby]

I have an early 80's Japanese guitar (Westone) that has strat pickups, strat wiring and strat scale length. But the body is shaped much like a Gibson SG. It sounds just like my 'genuine' strats. I don't think body shape has anything to do with tone either.

[KenC]

For those of you who have had a lot of single-cut and double-cuts of similar builds (say multiple ASATS, Teles, or LP-styles w/ Commanche's/Invaders/LP-double-cut/Strats/etc.) with similar pickups, do you find that generally speaking the single-cut styles sound fuller, richer, etc., or do you find that to be more an urban legend?

I don't think shape makes an impact, as long as the guitar has decent design and construction. If the shape causes problems with the neck/body joint or is so thin that the guitar flexes (like my first electric, an early 80s Univox) I think it could adversely effect tone.

Having multiple G&Ls, I do think that body wood makes a differene in tone. It isn't absolute, though. Almost half of mine are maple, and they are all over the place in terms of weight. The SC-1 and SC-2 are more open and chimey than the heavier ASATs. I suspect that may be a function of their bodies being narrower and thinner. I don't hear a tremendous difference between my ash El Toro and maple Interceptor Bass, but I can feel a difference in resonance. I wouldn't say one is better than the other, just that the Interceptor feels a bit tighter and more focused. The one wood that I put in a class by itself is mahogany for the early L-series basses. I've played mahogany and ash, and the 'hogs just have more "thump".

Ken

[louis cyfer]

any change you make to a guitar, electric or acoustic will effect the tone. this is a physical fact. now, whether the change is good, bad, or audible even, that is a different story.
if there is a guitar that is a single cut, and the bass side of it is uncut, i am yet to see it. would look rather funny as well. basically that salesman was so full of it, that it's oozing out of his ears.

[Ahryn]

I could see mass being a factor however small but not shape.

[Halowords]

I could see mass being a factor however small but not shape.

I could convince myself shape might influence how the guitar vibrates or what frequencies it resonates in some registrable fashion. Which may not ACTUALLY be what happens, however it does not seem as out there as some things I've heard. I could also see it being a non-factor or being something that made no perceptible difference at all, much less once plugged in and with settings changed and all. It's one of those things I do not have the answer to, however think would make for some fun experiments w/ prototypes and jam sessions.

-Cheers

[Halowords]

any change you make to a guitar, electric or acoustic will effect the tone. this is a physical fact. now, whether the change is good, bad, or audible even, that is a different story.

True. I also realize there are a lot of factors in, say, why a Telecaster and Stratocaster sound different (wiring, pickups, trem route, materials, individual pieces of wood or overall character of individual guitars, etc.). I've heard acoustics w/ no cutout tend (subjectively, of course) to sound "better" to some . That could be psychosomatic, due to mass of the guitar, energy transference, or faulty assumptions made on a small overall sample being judged. Part of it for me is I have never had a significant number of guitars with the same specs other than the body shape to actually play with this hypothesis.

if there is a guitar that is a single cut, and the bass side of it is uncut, i am yet to see it. would look rather funny as well. basically that salesman was so full of it, that it's oozing out of his ears.

Aren't single cuts pretty much all cut on the treble side? On a Tele/ASAT/LP/etc., the treble side has the cutout while the bass side is left rounded.

As for the salesman, he may have been wrong. FWIW, nothing he was selling me really had anything to do with this particular opinion. I'd already bought the wood, he was just sharing his beliefs or experiences on the matter of designs, just kind of musing about guitars, and this line of conversation came up. At minimal, bunk or not, it interested me enough to lead us to this thread.

-Cheers

[louis cyfer]

the bass side is left rounded, but it was not rounded originally, so it is still cut into that shape. so, to say the bass side is uncut is inaccurate at least. teles/asats are still shaped on the on the upper horn as well though. acoustics are a different animal, the top acts as the speaker essentially, so reducing the surface (cutaway) will definitely change the sound.

[KenC]

I have seen photos of some very high end bass guitars with a typical cutaway on the G string side and E string side extending was up along the neck. I can't think of the builders at the moment. Next time I see one on TalkBass I will post a link.

I have no idea how those basses sound, or whether they are worth the thousands of dollars they seem to command. I do think they look awkward and unbalanced.

Ken

[sirmyghin]

Yeah Ken, those basses are pretty hideous.

I don't think body shape will contribute anything significant to tone. It will contribute highly to comfort though, primarily, imo, to how the guitar hangs on you.

[Xochitl]

So how would you compare an S-500 with a Classic S (or now Legacy and Classic S Alnico, but there should be less people with first hand experience)?
They have (almost) similar pick-ups and obviously some other differences (eg. hardware) but that's the easiest way to check this idea with G&Ls.

[supereiv]

I have a classic S with alnico PU, and I used to have a Legacy with and without alnico... they do sound VERY different, the classic S sound not like a strat at all on the bridge and neck PU, the in between positions sound closer but not "like" a strat.
Anyway, the most important to me is this : they do feel different, the Legacy feel comfortable like an old pair of Levi's, whereas the ASAT feel more like a well worn leather suit, you can feel the weight and resistance more, but just like leather cloths, the ASAT seem to be able to go anywhere you want whatever the conditions are.

only my opinion.