ASAT Heastock shapes changing?

[JagInTheBag]

The G&L website has reference photos on ASAT models, some show this shape:



While others, show this shape:



Are both being used? Are they slowly phasing the first one out over the other?

[NickHorne]

I do hope not!! That string tree in the lower photo is in a very odd place; not good engineering, and looks suspiciously like it was determined by the position of the decal...
Goodbye to behind-the-nut bends (which I do all the time). Lots of nut angle and binding with my B-benders. All-around bad news for this player, if this is the new layout. Bummer. Hope it's not so.

[darwinohm]

I doubt it. The lower headstock seems to be a picture of one from when they were still using bullet truss rod.-- Darwin

[Elwood]

Nick I would guess the top one is newer (let's hope),

I don't recall seeing ASATs with the large curvy lower bout ,
<-----like the old S-500 headstocks...very sexy.
Leo ( and/or most probably George) always seemed
to integrate classy curves in their instruments (except for maybe the early snake head proto's in the early fifties).

The top one says G&L to me ...(except for that little pinch in width just past the nut,
that has been a distraction for me since they started doing that (late 80's early 90's ??)
...it makes it look like a weak spot...right where you want it to feel stout.


elwood

[JagInTheBag]

I doubt it. The lower headstock seems to be a picture of one from when they were still using bullet truss rod.-- Darwin

It has been in use that long, but if you notice all the new reference photos on the main website also use this shape.





I first deduced that they were using this shape for the ASAT Classic line and the top one for ASAT's, but I have seen each headstock across the line. Personally, I prefer the top shape, I was just wondering if they were moving to all one style, phasing out the top or were using them both. If both, with what rhyme and reason?

[yowhatsshakin]

If you look at this post of mine displaying 35 ASAT models ranging from '85 Broadcasters to a '12 ASAT Classic Alnico prototype, you'll notice that the headstock shape has some variation in pointedness. However, it is never as sharp as the headstock used on e.g. the Legacy or George Fullerton Sigs for that matter:

It may very well be there is no actual template for an ASAT headstock shape and that they all tart out with the pointy Legacy shape only to be rounded by a sander, which would explain the variation in shapes. Guess somebody from the factory needs to chip in here (no pun intended)

- Jos

[KenC]

I might be missing something here, but the bottom photo in the original post is from the very end of the Leo-era or first months under BBE. Were they showing that as a reference on the website?

Ken

[JagInTheBag]

I might be missing something here, but the bottom photo in the original post is from the very end of the Leo-era or first months under BBE. Were they showing that as a reference on the website?

Ken

This has nothing to do with the Leo -vs- BBE era, except to say the lower photo was the best close up shot I could find of this softer, wavy shape. I disagree with yowwhatsshakin, I don't think it is a manufacturing variation of the same head stock. These are two distinct shapes.

Perhaps the softer curve style fits on the ASAT Classic since it has more of a Tele vibe, but the first one has a more athletic feel to it. I have noticed this first style neck seems to becoming featured on fewer models. Personally, I prefer the first shape and would hate to see it disappear.

[TMO]

A 2012 Tribute ASAT Classic:

[KenC]

This has nothing to do with the Leo -vs- BBE era, except to say the lower photo was the best close up shot I could find of this softer, wavy shape.

Thanks for clarifying!

I disagree with yowwhatsshakin, I don't think it is a manufacturing variation of the same head stock. These are two distinct shapes.

I agree. I guess it's possible that a neck would come out of the CNC machine and get a little bit of manual touch-up on the spindle sander, but it would take a lot of time to remove that much wood. They have to be starting out as two distinct programs.

Ken

[JagInTheBag]

Looks like the new Fallout headstock splits the difference between the two ASAT versions.

[NickHorne]

That string-tree location worries me to hell. If my next order comes in like that, with the tree so near the nut, the day after it arrives it's going to have a vacant hole in the headstock, where the tree used to be, and a new hole (drilled by the owner) to fit the tree in a sensible place.

[KenC]

Looks like the new Fallout headstock splits the difference between the two ASAT versions.

There's a comment in the Fallout's description on G&L's website about matching the headstock shape of 80s G&Ls. I've had the Nighthawk out today, and the profiles are extremely close.

Ken

[JagInTheBag]

Looks like the new Fallout headstock splits the difference between the two ASAT versions.

There's a comment in the Fallout's description on G&L's website about matching the headstock shape of 80s G&Ls. I've had the Nighthawk out today, and the profiles are extremely close.

Ken

Darth commented to me that the shape is the same as the SC/Skyhawk/Rampage shape, scaled sown to be proportional with the smaller SC body.

[louis cyfer]

That string-tree location worries me to hell. If my next order comes in like that, with the tree so near the nut, the day after it arrives it's going to have a vacant hole in the headstock, where the tree used to be, and a new hole (drilled by the owner) to fit the tree in a sensible place.

just get it with the locking tuners, it should not need a string tree then.

[JagInTheBag]

That string-tree location worries me to hell. If my next order comes in like that, with the tree so near the nut, the day after it arrives it's going to have a vacant hole in the headstock, where the tree used to be, and a new hole (drilled by the owner) to fit the tree in a sensible place.

just get it with the locking tuners, it should not need a string tree then.

That reference photo is of a late '80's headstock, you should have no fear or concern that you would get a string tree similarly placed.

~JagInTheBag

[Craig]

That string-tree location worries me to hell. If my next order comes in like that, with the tree so near the nut, the day after it arrives it's going to have a vacant hole in the headstock, where the tree used to be, and a new hole (drilled by the owner) to fit the tree in a sensible place.

If you are concern about the location of the string tree, contact the dealer you ordered from and ask them to update the order they sent to the
factory and indicate the location where you want it.

[Craig]

The G&L website has reference photos on ASAT models, some show this shape:



While others, show this shape:



Are both being used? Are they slowly phasing the first one out over the other?

The photos on the G&L website with the headstock shape similar to the first photo you posted, are of guitars which were built in 2001 and/or 2002.
They were built in the pre-CNC days and perhaps shaped and sanded by one specific craftsman (of course, just a guess on my part). They do deviate
from the original shape which looks more like your second photo. After the factory got the CNC machines and programmed for the proper headstock
shape, the headstocks are much more consistent looking. While the necks are still hand sanded and some deviation can occur, a lot less time (and less
wood is removed) during hand sanding.

Here's a photo showing an 1986 ASAT:



And here is a 2012 or 2013 ASAT Classic S Alnico photo:



Hope this helps.

[NickHorne]

Thank you! I hadn't realised that asking for a particular location for the tree might be possible.
My order is imminent, but not actually under construction yet. But the tree being between the E6 and A tuners really worried me! I will indeed check that it will nearer the D, like the Bluesboy photo. The 2012/2013 Classic S location is what concerns me. As my order is for a WR signature, I am hoping that the Comanche head will help keep the tree from being so near the nut.
I realise it may not be issue for everyone, but accurate behind-the-nut bends need a bit of room, and a gentler angle over the nut is important too.
Anyway, it's a great relief that it needn't be a take-it-or-leave-it issue; my thanks to Craig yet again!

Just one concern left about this neck, now: my "old" WR (2003?) has quite a slim profile. I do wish it was a bit thicker, and I believe modern necks are. But are Comanche necks made slimmer than Asat ones? I don't want a slimmer neck just to get a different headstock shape (in fact I'd rather move the tree myself, and have a vacant hole, if it came to that). But if the necks are the same everywhere except the actual head, that would be great. The neck spec will be no.4

[Craig]

Just one concern left about this neck, now: my "old" WR (2003?) has quite a slim profile. I do wish it was a bit thicker, and I believe modern necks are. But are Comanche necks made slimmer than Asat ones? I don't want a slimmer neck just to get a different headstock shape (in fact I'd rather move the tree myself, and have a vacant hole, if it came to that). But if the necks are the same everywhere except the actual head, that would be great. The neck spec will be no.4

A #4 neck (regardless of headstock shape) will have this spec:

0.830" depth at the 1st fret and 0.960" depth at the 12th fret (All profiles have a +/- 0.015" tolerance).

What are the depths at the 1st and 12th fret on your 2003 WR neck?

Hope this helps.

[JagInTheBag]

The G&L website has reference photos on ASAT models, some show this shape:



The photos on the G&L website with the headstock shape similar to the first photo you posted, are of guitars which were built in 2001 and/or 2002.
They were built in the pre-CNC days and perhaps shaped and sanded by one specific craftsman (of course, just a guess on my part). They do deviate
from the original shape which looks more like your second photo. After the factory got the CNC machines and programmed for the proper headstock
shape, the headstocks are much more consistent looking. While the necks are still hand sanded and some deviation can occur, a lot less time (and less
wood is removed) during hand sanding.

Hope this helps.

This is what I was afraid of. I really, really, really like the shape of the this head stock. Go with the flow I guess!

[Craig]

The G&L website has reference photos on ASAT models, some show this shape:



The photos on the G&L website with the headstock shape similar to the first photo you posted, are of guitars which were built in 2001 and/or 2002.
They were built in the pre-CNC days and perhaps shaped and sanded by one specific craftsman (of course, just a guess on my part). They do deviate
from the original shape which looks more like your second photo. After the factory got the CNC machines and programmed for the proper headstock
shape, the headstocks are much more consistent looking. While the necks are still hand sanded and some deviation can occur, a lot less time (and less
wood is removed) during hand sanding.

Hope this helps.

This is what I was afraid of. I really, really, really like the shape of the this head stock. Go with the flow I guess!

I found the hi-res tif files for the ASAT Classic in Clear Orange and the ASAT Classic Bluesboy in 3-Tone Sunburst used on the G&L website.
I viewed these files using Photoshop and now see why the shape looks more pointed. I created a snapshot of each headstock and
saved them as jpg files. Here they are:





It's the camera angle and how the depth of the headstock image gives the illusion that it is more pointed than it really is.

Hope this helps explain what you are seeing on the G&L website pics. However, your first photo definitely shows that that headstock
shape deviates from the standard shape.

[Submersible]

There's a comment in the Fallout's description on G&L's website about matching the headstock shape of 80s G&Ls.

But it doesn't look anything like the headstock of a 80s SC-2. I guess they had to find an example of an 80s G&L headstock that still fits a modern G&L case?

Edit: Whoops, I see now it's a SC/Skyhawk/Rampage shape.