The place to discuss, post photos, video, and audio of the G&L products (US instruments, stomp boxes, etc.) produced after 1991, including the amps & gear we use with them.
More than a year ago I trade for a beautiful Blonde Legacy that had Kinman Blues pickups installed in it. It sounded fine but the tone controls seemed to have no effect. The guy who ordered this new was a good musician who wanted to become a Strat type lover. It was decked out with a maple GOT neck, and cream pickguard and controls. I saw it on CL listed as an as new custom shop G&L. He had Kinman Blues pickup as the originals were too noisy for him (he was not used to single coils) , had an Ervana (Sp) nut installed and had the frets dressed by one of the more famous luthiers in the twin cities. He was insulted when I told him that the upgrades didn't add anything to the value and why have a new, pleked, guitar dressed? I know some of you think that is necessary but I would have played it some before doing that and only if it needed dressing. Anyway, this guitar never made it out of the gate and he was trying to get $1900 out of it for quite some time.
He blew me off initially, but finally decided to talk to me more and eventually apologized for his attitude. I ended up getting it and plugged it in and the pickups were very nice and dead quiet, maybe not unusual for a guy with hearing aids, but it is quiet in an A/B with another Legacy. This was June 2011. I haven't hardly played it but a couple of nights ago I took it out and test drove it and my initial observation were confirmed. I then cranked the tone knobs and I could notice any change. Now this got my attention and this is where the story begins as I have never looked into the wiring of pickups. I know that Fender doesn't use tone controls in certain positions on vintage models. I have never looked into a Legacy PTB. I jump into the gallery and everything I need is there, well documented. I quickly discover that the tone controls were completely bypassed. There is also a bleed circuit on the volume control that is a Kinman design. Now I jump on the Kinman website and start exploring. There was not any information eluding to bypassing the tone controls. They had Fender vintage wiring diagrams so I could see how the tone controls were used in vintage Fenders.
At this point I decide to wire the pickups to G&L wiring, I noticed that G&L used the tone controls in all pickup positions (seems like a good idea) and proceeded to rewire. I know this has been talked about before here, but I don't always pay attention unless I have too. I installed the pickguard, new strings and fire it up. Now the tone controls work like they should. Now it is time for an A/B with my other Legacy. Overall the most noticeable difference is the Kinmans may have more color/overtones but there isn't a dramatic difference and the Legacy pickup hold their own quite well. If you are looking for no noise, the Kinmans do that extremely well. I sent them an e-mail last night asking abut the tone control bypass and they said there is no reason to do that unless the owner wanted as pure tone as he could get. Kinman is in the land of Oz and I had a response this morning, very impressive. This is my story as a result of finally paying attention. I could get into this pickup thing. By the way this forum has any information that is needed, to be successful. Darwin
Nice story and review. What kind of pickups does your other Legacy have in it?
I replaced the stock-Duncans in my '93 with Bill Lawrence Keystones abt a year ago. These are pure single-coil, but very quiet. The extended-highs on these pickups didn't sound so great with the Legacy PTB circuit, so I used the wiring diagram on BIll Lawrence's site. I missed the bass-cut knob for overdrive on the neck pickup though, so I added a Fender TBX pot for the neck pickup only. Even with the same pot/cap values, It doesn't sound or respond exactly like the G&L circuit, but with this set up I can get other cool tones.
Because I put a slightly larger cap on the bridge pickup's tone-control, and none on the middle, I can get a really cool lead voice in position#2 when the tone on the bridge is rolled all the way off. Cleans with these pickups are also outstanding, but they don't rival the cleans I got with the the Duncan SSL-2s that came stock back then. Different, but not better. After 20 years of modding this guitar, I've never really improved the guitar as much as changed it into something else. Then again, I just got a set of Schaller locking tuners in the mail this morning...
What are your impressions of the intonation with the Earvana nut? Do chords sound any different?
Greenblues wrote: Nice story and review. What kind of pickups does your other Legacy have in it?
I replaced the stock-Duncans in my '93 with Bill Lawrence Keystones abt a year ago. These are pure single-coil, but very quiet. The extended-highs on these pickups didn't sound so great with the Legacy PTB circuit, so I used the wiring diagram on BIll Lawrence's site. I missed the bass-cut knob for overdrive on the neck pickup though, so I added a Fender TBX pot for the neck pickup only. Even with the same pot/cap values, It doesn't sound or respond exactly like the G&L circuit, but with this set up I can get other cool tones.
Because I put a slightly larger cap on the bridge pickup's tone-control, and none on the middle, I can get a really cool lead voice in position#2 when the tone on the bridge is rolled all the way off. Cleans with these pickups are also outstanding, but they don't rival the cleans I got with the the Duncan SSL-2s that came stock back then. Different, but not better. After 20 years of modding this guitar, I've never really improved the guitar as much as changed it into something else. Then again, I just got a set of Schaller locking tuners in the mail this morning...
What are your impressions of the intonation with the Earvana nut? Do chords sound any different?
unless you used a superswitch, the bridge tone control also effects the middle pup in the #2 position.
I hope I didn't give the impression that I am a pickup guru. Louis would be light years ahead of me in that. I am primarily a bass player but do both. My goal was to see why the tone controls didn't have any effect. My other Legacy has the standard Legacy Alnicos.
I do not normally have intonation issues with any of my guitars and am quite fussy on my setups. I like low action and know what works for me. Intonation is more accurate generally with low action. I have other musicians that I do also setups for. I have no evidence to support the benefit of the Earvana, if there is any. It was on the guitar when I bought it. Musicman also uses this type of nut. In theory, it may be good.
Now to the pickups. The Kinmans are not noticeably different to me after connecting the tone controls. I did correspond with Kinman and they said the tone control would not have an adverse effect. They did say that the purest tone from the pickups could well be achieved by bypassing any tone circuit. The tone control is to alter/color the tone anyway. Kinman talks on his web site about achieving tone by adjusting the pickup height. The Kinmans have more overtones and seem to be richer in sound (not as thin) as the stock Legacy pickups. They also have considerably more gain, and are extremely quiet when raising the volume. It seems the noiseless pickup companies hype the thought that tone controls on single coils are designed to deal with the single coil noise along with the tone shaping. Louis or any of you who have done a lot of pickups can probably add to that idea. I have not experimented with pickups before and have so many different types and to be honest, I like all of them for what they are. This is the first time I had even looked into the wiring of a G&L. I can now see how a person could really get into this. There are ways to color the sound especially when I ohmed out the selector switch to see how it worked. There is one side of the switch to select the tone control to pickup combination. I wish I was as tuned into tone as some people. Obviously the guy who bought this guitar new couldn't achieve what he was looking for. I suspect that he requested to have the tone circuit bypassed. Anyway, the quest for the holy grail of tone, if there is one, sounds to me like it could be expensive. Now lets talk about amps!!!! -- Darwin
unless you used a superswitch, the bridge tone control also effects the middle pup in the #2 position.
After rewiring my guitar, the tone controls definitely do not affect the middle pickup. Do you mean that in position #2, the bridge tone control affects BOTH pickups?
That's not what I'm hearing. For example, with the tone rolled all the way off in position #1, the tone is dark and vocal. Switch back to position #2 and there's much more treble and articulation.
unless you used a superswitch, the bridge tone control also effects the middle pup in the #2 position.
After rewiring my guitar, the tone controls definitely do not affect the middle pickup. Do you mean that in position #2, the bridge tone control affects BOTH pickups?
That's not what I'm hearing. For example, with the tone rolled all the way off in position #1, the tone is dark and vocal. Switch back to position #2 and there's much more treble and articulation.
the tone is not connected in the middle position. the moment you go to position #2, the bridge is connected and through it the tone control, which is bleeding highs to the ground. it will sound different because the inductance of the 2 pups together is different, but unless you have a super switch to isolate the tone control to position #1, it will effect both in position 2. i have all my s style guitars wired so the tone is not effecting anything in the 2 and 4 positions, especially with rwrp middle pup, to get a little more of the spunk out of those positions. the suhr scott henderson model has that wiring, it works great. a bit more involved though.
Darwin
Nice story and review. What kind of pickups does your other Legacy have in it?
I replaced the stock-Duncans in my '93 with Bill Lawrence Keystones abt a year ago. These are pure single-coil, but very quiet. The extended-highs on these pickups didn't sound so great with the Legacy PTB circuit, so I used the wiring diagram on BIll Lawrence's site. I missed the bass-cut knob for overdrive on the neck pickup though, so I added a Fender TBX pot for the neck pickup only. Even with the same pot/cap values, It doesn't sound or respond exactly like the G&L circuit, but with this set up I can get other cool tones. 
-- Darwin