Floating bridge height and tone

[patricks]

I went through the setup instructions in the online manuals today and set my Tribute Comanche up according the factory specs (except I set the tremolo up at 2/16" from the body instead of 3/16" like it says in the manual).

The way it was originally set up, the action at the 12th fret was the same as factory spec and the tremolo was still floating and level, but the height of the tremolo was much lower than spec - only 1/16". After I'd raised it to 2/16", set the action back to the correct height and balanced the spring tension at the trem claw, I could swear that the tone wais brighter when I played it acoustically (I'm amp-less at the moment, so not sure what effect it'll have on the amplified sound).

Has anyone else found a difference in tone when you change the height of the dual fulcrum bridge?

[louis cyfer]

did you change strings?

[patricks]

Nope, same strings. I will be changing strings soon, but I didn't want to make too many changes at once so I could do a simple before/after comparison.

[louis cyfer]

did you listen without the trem cavity cover on? i would expect a different sound, as the distance between the trem plate and body has changed, the amount of sound coming through that space will be different.

[Craig]

I went through the setup instructions in the online manuals today and set my Tribute Comanche up according the factory specs (except I set the tremolo up at 2/16" from the body instead of 3/16" like it says in the manual).

The way it was originally set up, the action at the 12th fret was the same as factory spec and the tremolo was still floating and level, but the height of the tremolo was much lower than spec - only 1/16". After I'd raised it to 2/16", set the action back to the correct height and balanced the spring tension at the trem claw, I could swear that the tone wais brighter when I played it acoustically (I'm amp-less at the moment, so not sure what effect it'll have on the amplified sound).

Has anyone else found a difference in tone when you change the height of the dual fulcrum bridge?

Just so you know, 2/16" bridge plate distance is the current factory setup. You were referencing the manual which covers up to 2008.
See Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars post in the G&L Knowledgebase, G&L Tech Tips sub-forum.

[patricks]

did you listen without the trem cavity cover on? i would expect a different sound, as the distance between the trem plate and body has changed, the amount of sound coming through that space will be different.

Yup, I had the trem cavity cover off most of the time and that sound was definitely different - more reverberant and open. There was definitely still a difference when I put it back on, though.

@Craig, that's the post I remembered the bridge plate distance from. I'd forgotten what the other measurements were, though and looking at them now I think that's given me the answer. The action at the 12th fret on my guitar is about 1/64" higher at both the high and low E strings, so that's probably the reason. The different sound isn't necessarily a bad thing and the guitar's still very playable, so I think I'll experiment and see how I like the higher action vs the standard lower action.

Thanks heaps for your help, guys, I posted mainly out of curiosity but I've learned something useful now!

[NickHorne]

I think there's a solid engineering reason for your tone improvement when you raised the tremolo assembly.
Once the trem was raised, you presumably lowered the saddles in order to get the action back where you wanted it. This would reduce the strings' leverage around the pivot axis of the trem.
Re-adjusting the springs to get the trem back into position doesn't change the rate of the springs, i.e. they don't get softer, their position just changes.
Your strings' vibrations will now be vibrating the trem assembly less, and you will get three (almost certainly beneficial) results. One will be an increase in sustain and brightness, a lot like a more massive trem block; another will be that bending a string will flatten the others less than before. The trem action will also become more subtly sensitive to movements of the bar, easier to get gentle vib.

[louis cyfer]

I think there's a solid engineering reason for your tone improvement when you raised the tremolo assembly.
Once the trem was raised, you presumably lowered the saddles in order to get the action back where you wanted it. This would reduce the strings' leverage around the pivot axis of the trem.
Re-adjusting the springs to get the trem back into position doesn't change the rate of the springs, i.e. they don't get softer, their position just changes.
Your strings' vibrations will now be vibrating the trem assembly less, and you will get three (almost certainly beneficial) results. One will be an increase in sustain and brightness, a lot like a more massive trem block; another will be that bending a string will flatten the others less than before. The trem action will also become more subtly sensitive to movements of the bar, easier to get gentle vib.

the last 2 statements seem to be in conflict.

[NickHorne]

I'm sorry, that was not very clear of me.
I meant that there will be somewhat less change in string pitch than before, for the same amount of trem bar movement. (The working radius of the trem "winch" has been reduced). It would therefore be easier to control small depths of vibrato.

[patricks]

I think there's a solid engineering reason for your tone improvement when you raised the tremolo assembly.
Once the trem was raised, you presumably lowered the saddles in order to get the action back where you wanted it. This would reduce the strings' leverage around the pivot axis of the trem.
Re-adjusting the springs to get the trem back into position doesn't change the rate of the springs, i.e. they don't get softer, their position just changes.
Your strings' vibrations will now be vibrating the trem assembly less, and you will get three (almost certainly beneficial) results. One will be an increase in sustain and brightness, a lot like a more massive trem block; another will be that bending a string will flatten the others less than before. The trem action will also become more subtly sensitive to movements of the bar, easier to get gentle vib.

So if I understand correctly, the leverage is reduced because the distance between the top of the saddles and the contact point at the bridge post is less than before. The effects you describe are exactly what happened - these trems certainly are dynamic systems

[NickHorne]

Exactly that; lowering the saddles is what made the difference.
Leo's trem design was a big imaginative breakthrough! The way the possible adjustments inter-react demystifies once you have your head around it. And it sounds like you've found a nice setup with yours.