Is it me, or to MFD pup guitars need more power...

[JagInTheBag]

input from the amp to drive them? I have been switching back and forth from my vintage spec ALNICO V Jag/Jazz guitars and my '87 Skyhawk and leaving the settings on the amp static. It just seems like I have to turn the amp WAY up to get the same level of output from the guitar as I as on the ALNICO equipped axes.

I noticed this same thing with my S-500, part of the disappointment I had with it. I can't say that was the case for the WR, but I never made a back to back comparison. It is the same in reverse. If I plug the ALNICO guitar with the volume and watt levels set for the MFD, the thing about blows me away its so loud. Has anyone else experienced this phenomena?

Thanks!

~JagInTheBag

P.S. I am playing through a VOX AD50VT combo amp.

[blargfromouterspace]

I experienced the opposite, but not anywhere near as extreme as you describe. Are you sure everything is alright with the wiring and that the pickups aren't set low (ie too close to the body)?

[louis cyfer]

depends on what alnico pups you are using. but the mfd's are hotter than most traditional single coils. the s500 should definitely have more output than traditional strat pups.
otoh i like lower output pups, turning up the volume on the amp is not an issue, but i get a lot better, more dynamic tone with lower output pups. you can always use a clean boost to adjust the between the levels of different guitar so the amp can be left alone.

[yowhatsshakin]

input from the amp to drive them? I have been switching back and forth from my vintage spec ALNICO V Jag/Jazz guitars and my '87 Skyhawk and leaving the settings on the amp static. It just seems like I have to turn the amp WAY up to get the same level of output from the guitar as I as on the ALNICO equipped axes.

I noticed this same thing with my S-500, part of the disappointment I had with it. I can't say that was the case for the WR, but I never made a back to back comparison. It is the same in reverse. If I plug the ALNICO guitar with the volume and watt levels set for the MFD, the thing about blows me away its so loud. Has anyone else experienced this phenomena?

Thanks!

~JagInTheBag

P.S. I am playing through a VOX AD50VT combo amp.

Patrick,

The Nighthawk/Skyhawk pups are lower output pups by definition (see this entry on Greg Gagliano site). But of course it has also to do with power transfer and everything that factors into hat: magnet material and strength, height of pole pieces, electronics (but I trust you have the volume pot on the guitar wide open), etc. All other things being equal, your S-500 should be louder than your Skyhawk; even more since they have only become hotter over time. Is that the case?

- Jos

[JagInTheBag]

Patrick,

The Nighthawk/Skyhawk pups are lower output pups by definition (see this entry on Greg Gagliano site). But of course it has also to do with power transfer and everything that factors into hat: magnet material and strength, height of pole pieces, electronics (but I trust you have the volume pot on the guitar wide open), etc. All other things being equal, your S-500 should be louder than your Skyhawk; even more since they have only become hotter over time. Is that the case?

- Jos

This makes total sense now. I have not played the S-500 and the Skyhawk back to back, although I did play the WR and the S-500 with the same settings and the WR blew the S-500 away! That said, I appreciate the smooth character of the 'hawk more and more. It rewards good technique, as a person who grew up playing grunge and punk- something I continuously work on! The other thing that I enjoy about the 'hawk is the dual vibrato boss. I really like the bar in the "left hand" position.

[JagInTheBag]

you can always use a clean boost to adjust the between the levels of different guitar so the amp can be left alone.

Excellent suggestion Louis. Thank you.

[Philby]

Hi Jag,

Your observations fit it neatly with the volume 'pecking order' amongst my own herd. The order (high to low) with my guitars is:

Gibson Les Paul > ASAT Classic > ASAT Special > Telecaster (52 RI pickups) > Fender Strat (Fat 50s pickups) > Fender Strat (G&L Legacy pickups) > Fender Strat (62 RI pickups) > G&L S-500 > G&L Legacy.

The fact that the same set of G&L Legacy pickups sound MUCH louder in a strat makes me think that the PTB wiring in S-500's/Legacies attenuates the signal more than conventional strat wiring. Maybe it's those juicy 500k and 1 meg pots in the PTB circuit and the amount of signal they roll off to deliver a balanced tone. In the ASAT's where there is no PTB wiring, the MFD's are LOUD.

Anyway, I just do as Louis suggested and use a clean boost to make the S-500 and Legacy hit the amp harder.

[louis cyfer]

Hi Jag,

Your observations fit it neatly with the volume 'pecking order' amongst my own herd. The order (high to low) with my guitars is:

Gibson Les Paul > ASAT Classic > ASAT Special > Telecaster (52 RI pickups) > Fender Strat (Fat 50s pickups) > Fender Strat (G&L Legacy pickups) > Fender Strat (62 RI pickups) > G&L S-500 > G&L Legacy.

The fact that the same set of G&L Legacy pickups sound MUCH louder in a strat makes me think that the PTB wiring in S-500's/Legacies attenuates the signal more than conventional strat wiring. Maybe it's those juicy 500k and 1 meg pots in the PTB circuit and the amount of signal they roll off to deliver a balanced tone. In the ASAT's where there is no PTB wiring, the MFD's are LOUD.

Anyway, I just do as Louis suggested and use a clean boost to make the S-500 and Legacy hit the amp harder.

the larger the pot, the less it rolls off. the size of the pot= the barrier between hot and ground. the bigger the size, the bigger the barrier, so more goes to the output.

[Philby]

Hi Jag,

Your observations fit it neatly with the volume 'pecking order' amongst my own herd. The order (high to low) with my guitars is:

Gibson Les Paul > ASAT Classic > ASAT Special > Telecaster (52 RI pickups) > Fender Strat (Fat 50s pickups) > Fender Strat (G&L Legacy pickups) > Fender Strat (62 RI pickups) > G&L S-500 > G&L Legacy.

The fact that the same set of G&L Legacy pickups sound MUCH louder in a strat makes me think that the PTB wiring in S-500's/Legacies attenuates the signal more than conventional strat wiring. Maybe it's those juicy 500k and 1 meg pots in the PTB circuit and the amount of signal they roll off to deliver a balanced tone. In the ASAT's where there is no PTB wiring, the MFD's are LOUD.

Anyway, I just do as Louis suggested and use a clean boost to make the S-500 and Legacy hit the amp harder.

the larger the pot, the less it rolls off. the size of the pot= the barrier between hot and ground. the bigger the size, the bigger the barrier, so more goes to the output.

There goes that theory then......

[KenC]

I don't have any Alnico guitars for comparison, but I definitely see differences in my G&Ls when I play them back-to-back. For the single coils I would call it Nighthawk/Skyhawk < SC-1/SC-2 < S-500 (original '82 pups) < ASATs. I'm not sure right off where the ASAT Classic fits on this continuum, but I think it would be toward the higher end. The SCs may be a bit more powerful than the S-500, but the 'hog body on the S-500 gives an overall feeling of solidity compared to the lightweight maple bodies on the SCs.

The recent addition of a 'hog F-100 has made me a firm believer in the impact of body wood. My ash F-100 is a mere three months older than the 'hog and both are dead stock. The sounds are completely different though. The ash body can do rock and country very well, but the 'hog has a warmth that lends itself to jazz chords and blues playing as well.

I notice even more differences with my G&L basses. The L-1000 and L-2000E are louder than the El Toro and Interceptor (which have identical circuits), which are louder than the SBs and Lynx. All of my Leo era basses are louder than my '98 ASAT Bass and '00 L-2000 fretless (the quietest of the lot).

Ken

[helle-man]

.

This is my experience with G&L pickup outputs, high to low:

Z coils & most Humbuckers > ASAT Special > S-500 > ASAT Classic > Legacy


To my ears, most Fender PU's are closer to the Legacy in output. All the other G&L's leave the Fenders in the dust both in output and sonically.

My 2¢
WR

[JagInTheBag]

.

This is my experience with G&L pickup outputs, high to low:

Z coils & most Humbuckers > ASAT Special > S-500 > ASAT Classic > Legacy


To my ears, most Fender PU's are closer to the Legacy in output. All the other G&L's leave the Fenders in the dust both in output and sonically.

My 2¢
WR

Well, we shall do our own home comparison to confirm your findings. I have a USA WR being built that should be ready very soon. We shall do a back to back to back study with the Skyhawk, the S-500, and the WR when it arrives. I have no doubt your conclusions will be proved out, yet who can pass up some gratuitous fun?