All is fine -- My New USA Legacy HB

[waynerd]

I sold my '92 Legacy a year ago to buy a something else. It needed a refret bust it was stilan awesome guitar. I missed it so much I sold the guitar that I got to buy a new G&L. The fit and finish is awesome but, the fret work is really bad. I have buzzing and fretting-out all along the 7th and 9th frets. A truss rod adjustment didn't take care of it and made the action way too high.

I thought these PLEK machines are suppose to be great. I don't know what happened with this one.

[darwinohm]

Waynerd, I am disappointed that your new G&L doesn't meet your expectations. The information that you have given us is not enough to blame the issue on anything and I can assure you that the Pleck is a proven thing. The truss rod adjustment means nothing until you have some specifics. What is the relief at the 7 th fret? What is the string height at the 12 th fret. I would suggest that if you bought this from a G&L dealer to give them the opportunity to fix this. If there are issues, and the guitar was bought from a G&L dealer, you are covered under warranty. My most recent G&Ls have been perfect but with the information that you have given us, it is difficult to help you. This forum is a wealth of information and we will help you if we can. Give us some information and more specifics and maybe we can help you. Thanks for checking in on the forum and welcome.-- Darwin

[KenC]

+1 to Darwin's comment. Sorry if I'm preaching to the choir here, but any guitar that's traveled to a new owner will need a good setup due to natural wood movement from humidity and temperature changes. Necks may also shift slightly out of position during shipment. About 15 of my G&Ls were shipped from elsewhere in the country; each and every one of them needed to be dialed in with a setup after they landed. Only one that was bought locally needed adjustment, and that one had been sitting in its case for about thirty years.

Also, I wouldn't necessarily expect a truss rod adjustment to fix a buzz or fret-out. I second Darwin's suggestion to take it to the dealer. If it turns out to have problems that go beyond a setup, ask for a repair under the warranty.

If you're apprehensive about how this would work out under the warranty, check Jos's thread "What can Brown do for you (NGD of a sort)".

Ken

[waynerd]

Hi guys and thanks for the replies. You're right, I didn't leave that much info. My expectations were sky high for this because I miss my old G&L so much. I bought the guitar from a dealer about a eight hundred miles away. I can't just drive there so, i 'm not sure what to do. It is an authorized dealer so, I not worried about a warranty repair. I just want to avoid shipping it back and forth. I'll call the dealer and and spend some more time with it. I can always give it to my Luthier for a setup. I probably should
have researched it some more in this forum before I posted this. I appreciate your help and will update. I can't give specifics on the neck relief since I don't have a set of gauges. I usually use a variety of picks for a quick setup and it usually works.

[Craig]

Did you custom order this from the G&L dealer or was it one in stock at that dealer?
What is the serial number?

Here's the G&L Warranty details from G&L Support page:

Repairs and technical support

If you bought your G&L new (with warranty), please contact your dealer first. Your dealer may be able to resolve the problem quickly.

For warranty repairs in USA and Canada please contact the dealer where you purchased your G&L.
For non-warranty repairs in USA and Canada please contact Chris Robosan at (714)897-6766 extension 156 or send an email to him arrange for the return your instrument to G&L for repairs.
For all repairs outside the USA and Canada please contact your national distributor.

Here's some info regarding G&L's Plek process: Plek.

Hope this helps.

[waynerd]

It was in stock and ready to ship. The S# is CLF064651. I spoke with the dealer and he told me what I thought he would, that is, it needs a setup. Sounds reasonable and logical. What's odd though is that the entire neck plays great until you get to the 8th and 9th fret. It seems as if the 10th fret is high. All the bad buzzing stops at the 10th fret.

I want to thank everyone for their support.

[waynerd]

Just an update.. I noticed when I received this guitar the the neck was just a touch back-bowed. After some more tweaking, I noticed the the center of the the troubled frets weren't seated flat against the fret board. After some gentle tap, tap, tapping, the buzzing and choking-out was subsiding. It's much better now but, not quite there. If I can't get it playing great, I'll give it to my luthier. Which I should of done when I first place. This guitar was 4 moths old sitting in it's case, It was taken out of the box for pictures and that's it. New guitars can be temperamental. That's why I usually buy used guitars... Just my preference. But I wanted to treat myself.


Anywhooo, I'm sure it will be fine. I'll post updates.

...and by the way, I'm posting porn... and it's erotic.

[waynerd]

After some more tweaking, everything is falling into place. Not exactly where I want it but I'll take my time bringing it to my luthier. I'm having too much fun playing it.

[blargfromouterspace]

Glad to hear it's worked out. I've bought 3 brand new G&Ls and each of them has required a 'playing in' time of around a month before I was able to get them set up just right. The problems were the same as you experienced - buzzing and choking - and all three were given a Plek treatment before they left the factory. They all play very nicely now, and I believe that the Plek must have at least something to do with that.

[NickHorne]

Does anyone know how the Plek is done with regard to truss setting? It seems to use some pre-loading of the neck, to mimic string tension, and I find this weird.
Surely, the truss is normally left loose-ish and the frets stoned flat and dressed. Then, once the strings are on, there is adjustability of neck relief via the truss countering the string tension.
But pre-loading the neck when plek-ing would seem to negate this?
Can't be right, surely; I'd really like to know though.
Does the Plek put in a pre-dermined amount of relief when the neck is under the pre-loading?

[waynerd]

I've been doing a lot of reading on PLEK experiences. I noticed that Plek'ed guitars from the manufacturer get so-so reviews while getting your guitar Plek'ed at a luthier gets much better reviews. Gibson has received a lot of negative feedback. Especially the way they use it (or misuse it). I played a lot of Gibbies at the guitar store that have been Plek'ed and they really lack a proper fret dressing. The frets feel very trapezoidal. It's a tool that a luthier should use, not a machine operator. There is also a difference between a Plek and Plek Pro. It can be used as a cost cutting tool or a way to make finished products consistently good.

This is my first Plek'ed guitar. From what I experienced, the fret work looks a lot better than Gibson's, and I love Gibsons. But I've been disappointed as of late, with their cost vs quality.

[darwinohm]

I am only guessing as I do not know the plek process but in my opinion a neck would not be built flat but with a little back bow. I would think the plek would use preload to make the neck perfectly flat and the plek would be used the level the frets to the same height. The frets that are ground down a bit may need crowning and I don't know if the plek does that, but it may. I would be afraid that a neck constructed perfectly flat unloaded may eventually run out of adjustment. Several of the G&L necks I have require very little tension on the truss rod to achieve .005 relief. Others require considerably more, and every one will be different. I have also noticed my recent G&Ls have been pleked by the same person, who is probably getting very good at it. My opinion only and who knows where my logic is at the age I am at!-- Darwin

[louis cyfer]

I am only guessing as I do not know the plek process but in my opinion a neck would not be built flat but with a little back bow. I would think the plek would use preload to make the neck perfectly flat and the plek would be used the level the frets to the same height. The frets that are ground down a bit may need crowning and I don't know if the plek does that, but it may. I would be afraid that a neck constructed perfectly flat unloaded may eventually run out of adjustment. Several of the G&L necks I have require very little tension on the truss rod to achieve .005 relief. Others require considerably more, and every one will be different. I have also noticed my recent G&Ls have been pleked by the same person, who is probably getting very good at it. My opinion only and who knows where my logic is at the age I am at!-- Darwin

not exactly. the trussrod is then tightened a few turns and the fretboard is planed. , when the frets are inserted that creates a natural backbow, the instrument is strung in the plek machine, and it is placed in playing position. the trussrod is adjusted and after that it levels and crowns the frets. they all need some leveling usually.

[blargfromouterspace]

[youtube]DlE7PmTMHUQ[/youtube]

[louis cyfer]

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[louis cyfer]

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to contrast with gibson where the guitar is not strung, they simulate string tension.

[waynerd]

I am only guessing as I do not know the plek process but in my opinion a neck would not be built flat but with a little back bow. I would think the plek would use preload to make the neck perfectly flat and the plek would be used the level the frets to the same height. The frets that are ground down a bit may need crowning and I don't know if the plek does that, but it may. I would be afraid that a neck constructed perfectly flat unloaded may eventually run out of adjustment. Several of the G&L necks I have require very little tension on the truss rod to achieve .005 relief. Others require considerably more, and every one will be different. I have also noticed my recent G&Ls have been pleked by the same person, who is probably getting very good at it. My opinion only and who knows where my logic is at the age I am at!-- Darwin

Darwin,

.005" is very little relief. When I talked to G&L they said it should be .010. It's not a huge difference. I'm just wondering if you heard differently or if it's your preference?

[darwinohm]

It is my preference. It will require more frequent checking as weather/humidity changes occur. I always check and adjust the relief before using and they play very well for me at .005--Darwin

[waynerd]

do you know your action on the 12th fret with no capo?

[darwinohm]

I usually adjust .050 to .055 on high E and .060 on the low. If I were to experience any buzz at that I would raise just a bit. Usually, the low E is more prone to buzz. Sometimes I have adjusted a bit lower but it requires more frequent adjusting in this climate. The necks need to be in good shape to accommodate these kinds of adjustments. I had a 2003 ASAT Tribute that wouldn't play at those adjustment heights. I am also a light picker. it's all about personal preference.-- Darwin

[waynerd]

Thanks, Darwin. I'm more than an amp modder than a luthier. But I'm trying to learn..

Appreciate it!

[louis cyfer]

I am only guessing as I do not know the plek process but in my opinion a neck would not be built flat but with a little back bow. I would think the plek would use preload to make the neck perfectly flat and the plek would be used the level the frets to the same height. The frets that are ground down a bit may need crowning and I don't know if the plek does that, but it may. I would be afraid that a neck constructed perfectly flat unloaded may eventually run out of adjustment. Several of the G&L necks I have require very little tension on the truss rod to achieve .005 relief. Others require considerably more, and every one will be different. I have also noticed my recent G&Ls have been pleked by the same person, who is probably getting very good at it. My opinion only and who knows where my logic is at the age I am at!-- Darwin

Darwin,

.005" is very little relief. When I talked to G&L they said it should be .010. It's not a huge difference. I'm just wondering if you heard differently or if it's your preference?

i like .005 or less relief.

[NickHorne]

I completely agree with Darwin and Louis about .005" - it's fine for me (on a 12" radius board; 7.5" would be different). It seems quite usual for makers to quote a conservatively large relief spec. I use a reasonably firm bottom E, of .048 (lighter is too quiet and too floppy for my taste) with .036 and .026 for the other wound ones. The .048 feels well balanced force / volume / tone - wise to my picking hand, and is much less buzzy than a .046. Sometimes I like a .050, but this is almost certainly a psychological calibration drift, and not a luthiery one...

Capo'd at first fret, I like to measure action height at the 17th fret. For this, my G&L works great at 2.0 mm bass, 1.7mm treble. I should mention that I play moderately firmly, with bare fingers and thumb / occasional thumbpick. A light plectrum player may manage with less.

Sorry about the mixed thousandths - of - inch (for relief) and millimetres (for string height)! It's just how my feeler gauges and rulers are; I measure most guitar things in metric these days but just automatically still go for my old imperial feelers for very small stuff.

My particular G&L neck has always held relief adjustment extremely well, and I like everything about it, a lot.

[darwinohm]

For reference 2.0 mm is about 5/64 or .0785 and 1.7 mm is midway between 1/16 and 5/64, about .070.--Darwin

[waynerd]

Thanks, for the posts guys. It's a good reference. I'll be trying some different string gauges too.

[waynerd]

.....just a quick update:
I took the Legacy to my luthier for a setup. I had it for over a week and it's playing great; just like I imagined. I can't put it down now.

Thanks everyone, for your help.