ASAT Special unwanted overtones

[tcycles710]

lkklklkmklm

[Elwood]

Is there any slack/rattling in the saddle height screws, or maybe the the saddle-lock set screw ?

Did you change strings recently ? Is the unwanted sound present across all frequencies or
specific to certain strings or fret area ?

The MFD pickups are generally punchier so I find some tweaking in gain structure is often needed.
Is the sound present with the guitars volume dialed back to 7-8...or with the preamp gain (amp or direct)
pulled back 25-30% ?

It's possible the pickups went microphonic, how long have you had her?

(and pics are always a plus)

Welcome!!

Elwood

[suave eddie]

It is probably important to know if this occurs in all pickup configurations--bridge, middle, both? Can you eliminate any variables at all? Trouble shooting of any kind is always a process of elimination.

It's possible the pickups went microphonic, how long have you had her?

Of course it's possible both pickups are microphonic, but more likely one or the other.

[tcycles710]

wow, thanks for the quick responses.

The saddles screws (and the fix screws) feel really solid. And the guitar is only six months old, so microphonic already would be weird. Unless I'm living on top of a supermagnet and don't know it yet . Also, the symptoms occur the same on both pickups (and on the middle setting).

The overtones do sound strongest over mid to high frequencies. 7th-14th fret notes and chords are particularly piercing (and not in a good way).

I'm really stumped, everything seems to be setup properly. I love the punch of those MFDs, but these ringing tones have to go.

Is there a way to post a sound clip? Because I recorded a little sample of what I mean.

Thanks again.

[Miles Smiles]

Is there a way to post a sound clip? Because I recorded a little sample of what I mean.

You may load it up on http://soundcloud.com or http://dropbox.com and post the link to it.

[KenC]

I've got an ASAT Special that's putting out some nasty high pitched off key overtones over everything I play... especially noticeable with high reverb or boosted gain. I can hear it through amp or direct line in. I thought it might be string pull, but I dropped the pickups down as low as they'll go and I still get the same thing. I really can't figure it out, and I need to soon to start recording.

I'm stumped!

Anything else in the signal chain? What type of amp? What are you lining into?

Ken

[blargfromouterspace]

Is it a spring reverb that you're using? If so it's probably your reverb feeding back.
Are you using a lot of reverb as well as a lot of gain? Do other guitars make the same noise through the same amp/effects? How loud and close to your amp are you playing?

[paul101]

I have had a similar issue with two sets of asat classic bridge pickups that produced odd overtones even in clean, low volume situations. Both of these pickups were also too microphonic for my own personal taste and made the guitar useless in any high volume situation. Whether these two issues are connected I dont know.

As a side note I also own a tribute series asat classic which has none of these issues and cost a third of the price.

[tcycles710]

Okay, sorry for the delay. I was away for a couple days.

Here is a sound clip so that you can hear what I'm talking about. Every chords strummed has nasty ring tones superimposed on top.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bv0c2wf49u54 ... rtones.mp3

[louis cyfer]

Okay, sorry for the delay. I was away for a couple days.

Here is a sound clip so that you can hear what I'm talking about. Every chords strummed has nasty ring tones superimposed on top.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bv0c2wf49u54 ... rtones.mp3

can you record a clip direct in, no effects?

[tcycles710]

Okay, sorry for the delay. I was away for a couple days.

Here is a sound clip so that you can hear what I'm talking about. Every chords strummed has nasty ring tones superimposed on top.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bv0c2wf49u54 ... rtones.mp3

can you record a clip direct in, no effects?

Sure thing, here is a similar clip recorded direct line in with no effects whatsoever. It's harder to hear, but if you listen closely a few times, you can definitely hear a bell tone on top of every chord.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2w7g1i4inpqcx ... nesdry.mp3

[tcycles710]

anyone else hear that? or am i just losing my mind? ...

[louis cyfer]

Okay, sorry for the delay. I was away for a couple days.

Here is a sound clip so that you can hear what I'm talking about. Every chords strummed has nasty ring tones superimposed on top.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/0bv0c2wf49u54 ... rtones.mp3

can you record a clip direct in, no effects?

Sure thing, here is a similar clip recorded direct line in with no effects whatsoever. It's harder to hear, but if you listen closely a few times, you can definitely hear a bell tone on top of every chord.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/2w7g1i4inpqcx ... nesdry.mp3

i can hear it on the first one but not on the second one. it sounds like a microphonic tube or bad reverb spring on the first one.

[tcycles710]

it's definitely amplified in the first clip, very noticeable. But, if you listen closely on the second clip you can hear it there too.

[louis cyfer]

it's definitely amplified in the first clip, very noticeable. But, if you listen closely on the second clip you can hear it there too.

i am listening on studio monitors and high end headphones and can't hear anything unusual on the second one. there is some natural overtones and some frequency pulsating because of tuning, but nothing like in the first one.

[blargfromouterspace]

i can hear it on the first one but not on the second one. it sounds like a microphonic tube or bad reverb spring on the first one.

Just what I thought initially. Sounds exactly like a reverb problem/possible bad tube to me too. I also couldn't hear anything in the second clip through studio headphones. What kind of amp is it you're using?

[Philby]

i can hear it on the first one but not on the second one. it sounds like a microphonic tube or bad reverb spring on the first one.

Just what I thought initially. Sounds exactly like a reverb problem/possible bad tube to me too. I also couldn't hear anything in the second clip through studio headphones. What kind of amp is it you're using?

It sounds like tube rattle to me too. When I bought my new Vox AC15 a year or so ago it made exactly the same noise. The manager at the shop couldn't hear it (he was deaf from years of gigging) so he wouldn't cover it under warranty. The young guys in the shop (who still had hearing) could all hear it.

I bought some tube dampers which helped a lot, but the annoying overtones didn't completely disappear till I replaced the cheap Chinese tubes. One of the 2 power tubes ended up being the culprit.

I don't think it's your guitar though, or only to the extent that it generates the perfect harmonic content to get the tubes rattling.

[Lazer]

If the price for the "dampers" are in US$, the are eeeeexpeeeensive....

[louis cyfer]

If the price for the "dampers" are in US$, the are eeeeexpeeeensive....

5 bucks or less is expensive?

[tcycles710]

Neither of those sound clips is from an amp. They are both direct line in to logic pro. The first clip just has an amp effect on it. I only applied that effect to really magnify the overtones so that you could hear them. Other guitars that I've applied this effect to don't produce these overtones. Also, I know that it's difficult to hear, but the overtones are definitely present in the "dry" clip as well. Once you notice them, you'll hear it every time. They're subtle, but the overall effect is that the recordings sound too glassy.

I've taken it to get set up (with a Plek) and to have some fret work done. The guys at the shop are pretty stumped too, but we're all hoping that once the neck, frets, and intonation are all 'perfected,' whatever is ringing will stop ringing.

I'll keep you updated, thanks for all the contributions.

[tcycles710]

Speaking of intonation, does anyone know of a good way to adjust the screws for the bridge hammers? The problem is that they're recessed into those small cavities in the bridge and sit right next to the string heads. I need a small screw driver to get in there, but unless it has a very long shaft, I can't clear the butt of the guitar body and hold the driver straight. Small screw drivers can't clear the butt and therefore require me to hold at an angle and the risk of stripping seems high.

I'll let the shop take care of it this time, but for future adjustments I'd really like to know of solutions.

PS, If anyone's in SF: SF Guitarworks has been extraordinarily helpful with this whole matter of pesky overtones. Big recommend.

[louis cyfer]

Speaking of intonation, does anyone know of a good way to adjust the screws for the bridge hammers? The problem is that they're recessed into those small cavities in the bridge and sit right next to the string heads. I need a small screw driver to get in there, but unless it has a very long shaft, I can't clear the butt of the guitar body and hold the driver straight. Small screw drivers can't clear the butt and therefore require me to hold at an angle and the risk of stripping seems high.

I'll let the shop take care of it this time, but for future adjustments I'd really like to know of solutions.

PS, If anyone's in SF: SF Guitarworks has been extraordinarily helpful with this whole matter of pesky overtones. Big recommend.

you need a long shaft screw driver. i got one after i saw my tech's screw driver, and really that is the best way to go. you won't strip it at an angle if you loosen the strings before adjusting, but it can easily slip and gouge the finish on the body.

[Philby]

Neither of those sound clips is from an amp. They are both direct line in to logic pro. The first clip just has an amp effect on it.

Wow, an amp effect that faithfully models tube rattle!

Those overtones are so high and 'plinky' it must be something loose on your guitar. Could it be the high strings ringing behind the nut? I'm not familiar with the layout of the guitar, but are there string trees, and are they sufficiently tightened?

[KenC]

It may be helpful if you could post several photos of your ASAT. Not necessarily "glamor shots", but full shots of front and back and closeups of pickups, bridge and headstock. Just in case anything jumps out that may not have conveyed in the descriptions...

Ken

[Lazer]

If the price for the "dampers" are in US$, the are eeeeexpeeeensive....

5 bucks or less is expensive?

For a little "plastic" muff, heck yeah

[jdavies]

I had an interesting experience which turned into an experiment in changing gauges of strings. I had originally used 10-46 strings on my will ray z3 and since changed to 9-42s with adjusted saddles to work with this gauge. I have added a drop D lever for this guitar and the 42 fits through the holes a bit better. Anyway I thought Id try 10-46 again and put some on without adjusting the saddles. The sound was very similar to the one you are describing. the new strings were so twangy and resonant through the sensitive MFD pickups that the slightly different harmonics on the fretted notes would resonate with the truer notes and give very high off-frequency overtones. I quickly put 9-42s back on and lo and behold my perfect sweet resonant sound was back. Do not underestimate even a small difference from correct harmonic adjustment makes - especially with a highly resonant guitar with very sensitive pick ups. this is the only guitar I have had where near enough wasn't good enough to get the best response but when it is dialed in it surpasses all others.

Jeremy

[Submersible]

PS, If anyone's in SF: SF Guitarworks has been extraordinarily helpful with this whole matter of pesky overtones. Big recommend.

They're great--they worked on my ASAT Classic as well as my original SC-2 (among others). Pretty pricy, though, and they always try to upsell a fret leveling if not a total refret on every job.

[NickHorne]

I had an interesting experience which turned into an experiment in changing gauges of strings. I had originally used 10-46 strings on my will ray z3 and since changed to 9-42s with adjusted saddles to work with this gauge. I have added a drop D lever for this guitar and the 42 fits through the holes a bit better. Anyway I thought Id try 10-46 again and put some on without adjusting the saddles. The sound was very similar to the one you are describing. the new strings were so twangy and resonant through the sensitive MFD pickups that the slightly different harmonics on the fretted notes would resonate with the truer notes and give very high off-frequency overtones. I quickly put 9-42s back on and lo and behold my perfect sweet resonant sound was back. Do not underestimate even a small difference from correct harmonic adjustment makes - especially with a highly resonant guitar with very sensitive pick ups. this is the only guitar I have had where near enough wasn't good enough to get the best response but when it is dialed in it surpasses all others.

Jeremy

I completely agree that an imperfect intonation setup can have these increased side-effects on a resonant guitar with sensitive pups, although my string experience is a little different: my Will Ray now wears 9.5 / 12 / 15 (yes) / 26 / 36 / 50 , of D'Addario ProSteels, which works for me because I play with bare fingers and thumb and the plain G always outguns every other string if I have the pup / pole heights right to get an even response all over the neck. This has been the case with every electric I ever played, even with the thin 15-gauge G (still thicker than Clarence White or James Burton though!); raising the output of the wound strings is the only real cure for me, ProSteels being favourite. The 15 enables real staying-power at whole-tone bends at second fret, without finger failure after the first few dozen bends, and its tone fits in well.
But all this does make for a super-twangy result, and the intonation accuracy that you refer to is really essential to avoid unwanted side-effects.
Also agreed, the WR definitely does surpass all my others. I am toying with the possibility of putting a Cannabis Rex in my Deluxe Reverb, as the twang factor is generous at present, and I might fancy a little smoothing, but I'm in no hurry; it's sounding ridiculously great.

[jdavies]

Played a gig last night and the will ray sounded great! The variety of sounds just across the pick up combinations and the incredible output mean I am stripping back pedals to a drive as a lead boost, a stereo delay and a stereo reverb (always on) split across two very nice but different amps. In a 3 piece it both spanks for rhythm and sings for lead. I find the lighter gauge easier for a soft touch and more finger control for vibrato. I switch between finger style and pick.