Funny pots on my Tribute Comanche

[Arcturus]

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum, and here my intro post with a photo of my new Comanche. http://goo.gl/HXTgF

Here's the Comanche itself for anyone too lazy to click.



I'm loving this guitar, and it sounds immaculate. Switching out the nut for a Graphtec TUSQ XL was my first move right off the bat, and I'm glad that I did. I've still got a list of other things to change on this guitar, like Schaller locking tuners, a TUSQ XL string tree, string-saver saddles, a brass bridge block, and a Tremol-no, but those can all wait for quite some time. For now, I'm just pleased to be playing this thing! I'm in love with the neck.

One goofy thing I've noticed about my pots, though, is that while my volume and bass pots feel very nice and sturdy, turning evenly and with a good taper, my treble pot doesn't seem right. For one, the treble pot somehow wound up with the push-pull function to activate the neck pickup instead of the volume pot (unless there was a change I was not made aware of?), and the treble pot itself is much, much looser and cheap feeling compared to the other two. It turns much too easily, and I'm not a fan of that; I prefer a firm pot on my guitar.

Does anyone know what the deal is with that? Are Tribute Comanches supposed to have the treble pot have the push-pull function? And is it normal for one pot to feel so much looser than the others?

If this isn't normal, then I'll just add "upgrade/change the pots" to the list of things to do for this guitar and put that at the top of the list. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Arcturus

[FenderGuy53]

Hello all,

One goofy thing I've noticed about my pots, though, is that while my volume and bass pots feel very nice and sturdy, turning evenly and with a good taper, my treble pot doesn't seem right. For one, the treble pot somehow wound up with the push-pull function to activate the neck pickup instead of the volume pot (unless there was a change I was not made aware of?), and the treble pot itself is much, much looser and cheap feeling compared to the other two. It turns much too easily, and I'm not a fan of that; I prefer a firm pot on my guitar.

Does anyone know what the deal is with that? Are Tribute Comanches supposed to have the treble pot have the push-pull function? And is it normal for one pot to feel so much looser than the others?

If this isn't normal, then I'll just add "upgrade/change the pots" to the list of things to do for this guitar and put that at the top of the list. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Arcturus

Hey, Arcturus, I have the same kind of deal going on:

2009 Comanche: PTB System and Expander Switch Setups

1. Holding the guitar in the playing position, and working from closest to furthest, my pots are arranged as VOLUME, TREBLE and BASS. Is this correct?

2. The Expander function seems to be tied to my TREBLE pot, since that is the push/pull pot. Is this correct?

3. The shafts on the VOLUME and BASS pots are rigid, while the shaft on the TREBLE push/pull pot has a slight wobble. The pot seems to function okay and there is no scratchiness during adjustments. Also, I checked the nut securing the pot to the pickguard and it is tight. Is the wobble a sign that the pot is defective? Should it be replaced?


Hopefully, someone can chime in and shed some light on the subject for us. Thanks for your help, guys.

[louis cyfer]

you wouldn't want the push pull on the volume, since that is the most often used pot and you'll have a harder time doing volume swells when the pot is up. i switch out all push pull pots push push, as in performance they are much more useful. i also use low torque linear for volume and high torque audio taper the the treble.

[Craig]

Hello all,

I'm new to this forum, and here my intro post with a photo of my new Comanche. http://goo.gl/HXTgF

Here's the Comanche itself for anyone too lazy to click.



I'm loving this guitar, and it sounds immaculate. Switching out the nut for a Graphtec TUSQ XL was my first move right off the bat, and I'm glad that I did. I've still got a list of other things to change on this guitar, like Schaller locking tuners, a TUSQ XL string tree, string-saver saddles, a brass bridge block, and a Tremol-no, but those can all wait for quite some time. For now, I'm just pleased to be playing this thing! I'm in love with the neck.

One goofy thing I've noticed about my pots, though, is that while my volume and bass pots feel very nice and sturdy, turning evenly and with a good taper, my treble pot doesn't seem right. For one, the treble pot somehow wound up with the push-pull function to activate the neck pickup instead of the volume pot (unless there was a change I was not made aware of?), and the treble pot itself is much, much looser and cheap feeling compared to the other two. It turns much too easily, and I'm not a fan of that; I prefer a firm pot on my guitar.

Does anyone know what the deal is with that? Are Tribute Comanches supposed to have the treble pot have the push-pull function? And is it normal for one pot to feel so much looser than the others?

If this isn't normal, then I'll just add "upgrade/change the pots" to the list of things to do for this guitar and put that at the top of the list. Thoughts?

Thanks in advance,

Arcturus

I've brought your post to Dave McLaren's attention.

Stay tuned.

[Arcturus]

Hey, Arcturus, I have the same kind of deal, but slightly different:

2009 Comanche: PTB System and Expander Switch Setups

1. Holding the guitar in the playing position, and working from closest to furthest, my pots are arranged as VOLUME, BASS and TREBLE. Is this correct?

2. The Expander function seems to be tied to my BASS pot, since that is the push/pull pot. Is this correct?

3. The shafts on the VOLUME and TREBLE pots are rigid, while the shaft on the BASS push/pull pot has a slight wobble. The pot seems to function okay and there is no scratchiness during adjustments. Also, I checked the nut securing the pot to the pickguard and it is tight. Is the wobble a sign that the pot is defective? Should it be replaced?


Hopefully, someone can chime in and shed some light on the subject for us. Thanks for your help, guys.

No, mine is Volume (nice feel), Treble (push/pull, lousy feel), and Bass (nice feel). There's no scratchiness or negative effect on the sound when I use them, but the treble pot sure feels a lot flimsier than the others, and I was under the impression that from G&L's description of the push/pull switch being on the volume knob that something might be wrong with mine (says it's on the volume pot right here: http://goo.gl/FmgLk). I was wondering the same thing about a flimsy feeling pot needing replacement, especially considering it's not consistent with the others.

you wouldn't want the push pull on the volume, since that is the most often used pot and you'll have a harder time doing volume swells when the pot is up. i switch out all push pull pots push push, as in performance they are much more useful. i also use low torque linear for volume and high torque audio taper the the treble.

I wouldn't mind the volume being a push/pull because I don't really do volume swells (though I imagine if the mood struck me, I'd just use a volume pedal). It's just the advertising of it being one thing and the actual setup being another that's giving me pause, especially considering the disparity in feel between the three pots.

Does this mean that there is such a thing as pots with different torques? Where might I be able to find a new treble pot with a firmer feel to it? Heck, knowing that my Tribute doesn't use the same high-quality pots as the USA models is enough to make me consider overhauling the switching just to make sure that it's on the level.

I've brought your post to Dave McLaren's attention.

Stay tuned.

Wow, thanks Craig! I'm looking forward to the answer!


Arcturus

[Craig]

Hey, Arcturus, I have the same kind of deal, but slightly different:

2009 Comanche: PTB System and Expander Switch Setups

1. Holding the guitar in the playing position, and working from closest to furthest, my pots are arranged as VOLUME, BASS and TREBLE. Is this correct?

2. The Expander function seems to be tied to my BASS pot, since that is the push/pull pot. Is this correct?

3. The shafts on the VOLUME and TREBLE pots are rigid, while the shaft on the BASS push/pull pot has a slight wobble. The pot seems to function okay and there is no scratchiness during adjustments. Also, I checked the nut securing the pot to the pickguard and it is tight. Is the wobble a sign that the pot is defective? Should it be replaced?


Hopefully, someone can chime in and shed some light on the subject for us. Thanks for your help, guys.

The pots are Volume, Treble cut, Bass cut, so your's is the same as Arcturus' 2012 Comanche.
I suspect that the wobble on the push/pull pot is from the knob not being seated level on the shaft. The knob should be
secured to the shaft with an allen set screw, so you should be able to loosen it and reseat it.

Hope this helps.

[FenderGuy53]

Hey, Arcturus, I have the same kind of deal, but slightly different:

2009 Comanche: PTB System and Expander Switch Setups

1. Holding the guitar in the playing position, and working from closest to furthest, my pots are arranged as VOLUME, BASS and TREBLE. Is this correct?

2. The Expander function seems to be tied to my BASS pot, since that is the push/pull pot. Is this correct?

3. The shafts on the VOLUME and TREBLE pots are rigid, while the shaft on the BASS push/pull pot has a slight wobble. The pot seems to function okay and there is no scratchiness during adjustments. Also, I checked the nut securing the pot to the pickguard and it is tight. Is the wobble a sign that the pot is defective? Should it be replaced?


Hopefully, someone can chime in and shed some light on the subject for us. Thanks for your help, guys.

The pots are Volume, Treble cut, Bass cut, so your's is the same as Arcturus' 2012 Comanche.
I suspect that the wobble on the push/pull pot is from the knob not being seated level on the shaft. The knob should be
secured to the shaft with an allen set screw, so you should be able to loosen it and reseat it.

Hope this helps.

Craig, since my original post I went downstairs and checked again. I can now confirm that I have the same thing going on with mine as Arcturus has with his. I have editted my original post accordingly.

Regarding "I suspect that the wobble on the push/pull pot is from the knob not being seated level on the shaft. The knob should be secured to the shaft with an allen set screw, so you should be able to loosen it and reseat it.", I can say this:

There are no set screws on any of the knobs - all are press on knobs.

Furthermore, I removed all three knobs to determine if it was the knob or the pot that was causing the issue. I checked and tightened all the nut fasteners on the pots. I then grabbed each pot shaft between my thumb and index finger and checked for any lateral play in the shaft itself. The VOLUME and BASS pot shafts are rigid - no lateral play in either shaft. The TREBLE pot shaft (which also happens to be the push/pull pot) definitely has some lateral play in it - a noticeable "wiggle".

Now, the $64,000 question is this: Are the push-pull pots supposed to wiggle, or do we have a problem?

[FenderGuy53]

Hey, Arcturus, I have the same kind of deal, but slightly different:

2009 Comanche: PTB System and Expander Switch Setups

1. Holding the guitar in the playing position, and working from closest to furthest, my pots are arranged as VOLUME, BASS and TREBLE. Is this correct?

2. The Expander function seems to be tied to my BASS pot, since that is the push/pull pot. Is this correct?

3. The shafts on the VOLUME and TREBLE pots are rigid, while the shaft on the BASS push/pull pot has a slight wobble. The pot seems to function okay and there is no scratchiness during adjustments. Also, I checked the nut securing the pot to the pickguard and it is tight. Is the wobble a sign that the pot is defective? Should it be replaced?


Hopefully, someone can chime in and shed some light on the subject for us. Thanks for your help, guys.

No, mine is Volume (nice feel), Treble (push/pull, lousy feel), and Bass (nice feel). There's no scratchiness or negative effect on the sound when I use them, but the treble pot sure feels a lot flimsier than the others, and I was under the impression that from G&L's description of the push/pull switch being on the volume knob that something might be wrong with mine (says it's on the volume pot right here: http://goo.gl/FmgLk). I was wondering the same thing about a flimsy feeling pot needing replacement, especially considering it's not consistent with the others. Arcturus

Arcturus, I just checked again and we have exactly the same issue! I have editted my original post accordingly. Hopefully, Craig's email to Dave McLaren will shed some light.

[louis cyfer]

the push push and push pull pot do have a slight inherent wiggle to them. kind of unavoidable because of the function. but it is rather small.

arcturus, there are low medium and high torque pots, look at mouser electronics, they pretty much carry anything.

[Arcturus]

the push push and push pull pot do have a slight inherent wiggle to them. kind of unavoidable because of the function. but it is rather small.

arcturus, there are low medium and high torque pots, look at mouser electronics, they pretty much carry anything.

I looked through Mouser's website, but I didn't see anything in potentiometers that had to do with torque or anything like that. More to the point, none of the potentiometers on that site appeared to be push/pull or even 500k (even CTS and Alpha). Is there something I can look for on guitar related parts websites, like StewMac, AllParts, or GuitarPartsResource? What should I be looking for to know what kind of torque I'm getting?

Arcturus

[louis cyfer]

the push push and push pull pot do have a slight inherent wiggle to them. kind of unavoidable because of the function. but it is rather small.

arcturus, there are low medium and high torque pots, look at mouser electronics, they pretty much carry anything.

I looked through Mouser's website, but I didn't see anything in potentiometers that had to do with torque or anything like that. More to the point, none of the potentiometers on that site appeared to be push/pull or even 500k (even CTS and Alpha). Is there something I can look for on guitar related parts websites, like StewMac, AllParts, or GuitarPartsResource? What should I be looking for to know what kind of torque I'm getting?

Arcturus

i use mainly bourns pots. but you can find the push push and push pull at allparts and those are medium torque. only bourns marks the different torques. you can also change it. the difference is the pressure of the wiper and how much grease there is inside it. the more grease the more torque.

[Arcturus]

i use mainly bourns pots. but you can find the push push and push pull at allparts and those are medium torque. only bourns marks the different torques. you can also change it. the difference is the pressure of the wiper and how much grease there is inside it. the more grease the more torque.

Let's see what I could find...

I found a Bourns Premium Grade 500K audio taper push/pull here: http://goo.gl/y768l
It appears to be +/- 15% tolerance, so I suppose that's good quality (not the +/- 10% or better that CTS brags about, though).

I found an Alpha 500K audio taper push/pull here: http://goo.gl/7raLw
It appears to be +/- 20% tolerance, so I'm assuming that means it's less quality than Bourns, right?

Finally, I found an AllPart 500K push/pull here: http://goo.gl/xGD3G
Unfortunately, the technical specs aren't listed, so I don't know what it can do.

I couldn't find anything for CTS, and I saw something on a forum about CTS not bothering with push/pull pots anymore (I don't know how true that is), but that's what I've found so far.

Geez, the way this is looking, it might almost be easier just to switch to plain ol' regular pots and install a switch to activate the expander like on US models...

Arcturus

[louis cyfer]

while bourns claims 15% tolerance, i have bought many and have found them to be within +/-5% or better. i always measure all pots and always buy several and use the best value for my purpose.

[Arcturus]

while bourns claims 15% tolerance, i have bought many and have found them to be within +/-5% or better. i always measure all pots and always buy several and use the best value for my purpose.

Hmm, I see. Well, if Bourns meets your standards, then I'll trust you on this.

I find it pretty troublesome that I have to go through this at all, actually. Oh well.

If I don't hear back from the G&L guys in a few days, I think I've got three choices on what I can do:

-Firstly, I'll order a Bourns 250K push/pull pot to replace my volume pot and wire it to activate the expander switch. With that done, I'll have a leftover 250K Mighty Mite pot (I believe that's what Tributes use...). This is the one I was thinking of getting: http://goo.gl/qRNUX. The only thing is, that's an audio taper model. If using a volume taper doesn't look like a good idea, I suppose I'll have to get back to hunting for a linear taper push/pull 250K pot from a reputable company (not Alpha. I'm looking to step UP if I'm gonna do this)...

Secondly, I'll replace the loose and wonky push/pull treble pot with a Bourns 500K volume taper pot. If I'm reading this site's wiring diagram correctly for the Comanche, the volume is 250K and the treble is 500K, so that should work. This is the model I was thinking of getting: http://goo.gl/NsR1e. That's also an audio taper model, but I think that's what the treble pot already comes with, right? This should also leave me with a 500K Mighty Mite pot.

Essentially, this would set me up for what is advertised for the Comanche, and to be frank, I think it's the setup that I'd be happier with. With a good, firm volume pot that activates the expander switch and a sturdy treble switch that has similar torque to the others, I'd basically be happy with the wiring until whenever it gets around to failing. More complicated and expensive, sure, but hey, what does a musician need with money anyways?

-My second option is to wire in a CTS 250K linear taper pot for the volume (this model: http://goo.gl/n1lpq) and a Bourns 500K volume taper pot for the treble (this one: http://goo.gl/NsR1e). I'd then have to drill a hole in the pickguard and install a mini-switch to activate the expander (probably something like this: http://goo.gl/8ZIG9, but I don't know how many poles there are for the expander).

This would give me a nice, solid setup with easy-to-fetch parts, but the thought of altering the pickguard to install the switch on top of all the other wiring would make this the most intensive option.

-My third option is just to switch the wonky treble pot with this Bourns 500K push/pull pot: http://goo.gl/y768l. If it worked out, it'd essentially be a simpler, lazier shortcut. I guess I'd have to live with my treble pot activating the expander switch, but that's pretty high up there on the list of first world problems.

Opinions?

Arcturus

[louis cyfer]

if you like solid feeling volume pots, the bourns 250k linear high torque would be a great choice. finding a linear taper push pull might be difficult. i had a very hard time locating a 250k linear taper low torque split shaft pot, i contacted bourns and they made it for me, sent me 20 of them, no charge. i don't think customer service could be better. i tested all 20, they were all between 242-255k. that is a very good tolerance. i would go with the 500k audio taper push push for the treble pot, and be done with it. the push push wirks so much better, all you have to do is tap the top and it switches.

[Arcturus]

if you like solid feeling volume pots, the bourns 250k linear high torque would be a great choice. finding a linear taper push pull might be difficult. i had a very hard time locating a 250k linear taper low torque split shaft pot, i contacted bourns and they made it for me, sent me 20 of them, no charge. i don't think customer service could be better. i tested all 20, they were all between 242-255k. that is a very good tolerance. i would go with the 500k audio taper push push for the treble pot, and be done with it. the push push wirks so much better, all you have to do is tap the top and it switches.

Eesh, this is getting complicated. I wouldn't mind making a custom order if it didn't financially kill me, but I think I need to know exactly what I'm working with if I'm going to do that.

So I guess first things first:

-G&L, can you please tell me what make and size of pots are currently in my Tribute, please? Knowing how many splines are on the knurled part of the pot would be handy too if I need to get new domes for them. Knowing the exact specs of what I'm dealing with gets me on the ground floor, and I can work with what I've got from there.

Once I know what types of pots I'm dealing with in my guitar, I can then look exactly for the right parts, custom ordering if need be. I'm not quite sold on the push/push idea, so I'd like to stick to my original (and G&L's advertised) plan of a push/pull volume, plain treble, and plain bass, all of them about medium torque (if my current volume and bass knobs are an indication of medium torque, that is). If the volume is currently an audio taper, then I wouldn't mind sticking with it because sounds pretty good to me right now as it is. If it's a linear, then I'd like to stick with it being linear. I'm not terribly loyal to any particular brand name, I just want to make sure that they're reliable and sturdy.

Basically, I want to make sure that I'm not putting junk components into my guitar, I don't want it to be a slipshod quickfix job if possible, and I'd like the knobs to be set up my (and G&L's) way with even torque and feel across the board. I'll just have to be patient to make sure this happens.

Arcturus

[louis cyfer]

the knurls on the split shaft is pretty standard, as long as the diameter is right, you should not have to worry about that. the pot will tell you whether it's linear (B), or audio taper (A).

[Arcturus]

An update:

After checking the website information for specs once more, it appears that it now states that it is indeed the treble pot that is supposed to have the push/pull function and not the volume pot. I was certain, absolutely CERTAIN, that it said volume pot before, but I guess that's the way it goes sometimes. I feel very foolish right now, and now my memory is taunting me on what I saw before. If it did indeed say treble pot this entire time, then I feel that I've got egg on my face.

In any case, I guess I only need to replace a wobbly treble push/pull pot now and not a volume & treble switch. Would G&L be willing to help out with that, or would I be on my own?

Thanks,

Arcturus

[Craig]

An update:

After checking the website information for specs once more, it appears that it now states that it is indeed the treble pot that is supposed to have the push/pull function and not the volume pot. I was certain, absolutely CERTAIN, that it said volume pot before, but I guess that's the way it goes sometimes. I feel very foolish right now, and now my memory is taunting me on what I saw before. If it did indeed say treble pot this entire time, then I feel that I've got egg on my face.

In any case, I guess I only need to replace a wobbly treble push/pull pot now and not a volume & treble switch. Would G&L be willing to help out with that, or would I be on my own?

Thanks,

Arcturus

As I mentioned on Friday, I brought your post to Dave McLaren's attention.

I heard back from him earlier today and this is his reply:

Hi Craig,

It is the treble pot, not the volume, which makes perfect sense. We've just changed that on the site.

Regarding the tension difference, as much as I'd love them to be the same across all three, it seems to
be inherent in all of them. The factory tells us that it's due to design, which may be true, but I also think
there are variances in the production from the pot manufacturing. We see this in the US instruments as
well as the Tribute Series, though we have some more control here. The critical element is the proper value
and taper of the pots, so when picking our battles, that's our priority.

Thanks for the heads up, Craig.

Dave

Hope this helps.

[Arcturus]

An update:

After checking the website information for specs once more, it appears that it now states that it is indeed the treble pot that is supposed to have the push/pull function and not the volume pot. I was certain, absolutely CERTAIN, that it said volume pot before, but I guess that's the way it goes sometimes. I feel very foolish right now, and now my memory is taunting me on what I saw before. If it did indeed say treble pot this entire time, then I feel that I've got egg on my face.

In any case, I guess I only need to replace a wobbly treble push/pull pot now and not a volume & treble switch. Would G&L be willing to help out with that, or would I be on my own?

Thanks,

Arcturus

As I mentioned on Friday, I brought your post to Dave McLaren's attention.

I heard back from him earlier today and this is his reply:

Hi Craig,

It is the treble pot, not the volume, which makes perfect sense. We've just changed that on the site.

Regarding the tension difference, as much as I'd love them to be the same across all three, it seems to
be inherent in all of them. The factory tells us that it's due to design, which may be true, but I also think
there are variances in the production from the pot manufacturing. We see this in the US instruments as
well as the Tribute Series, though we have some more control here. The critical element is the proper value
and taper of the pots, so when picking our battles, that's our priority.

Thanks for the heads up, Craig.

Dave

Hope this helps.

Ah, thank you very much for the response. I guess this means it's just "one of those things", eh? Very well, I guess I'll think of something to do about it later...

At least I'm glad to know that I was right about it being the volume pot on the site!

Arcturus