Comanche tuning going sharp

[StevenMikel]

I have a Comanche that I bought new 7 years ago. A few months after I bought it,the tuning would go sharp after I would do a bend or use the trem.I asked on this(the old version) and other forums what would cause my tuning to go sharp.A few people said it was my strings,I tried different brands and guages of strings but,still had the problem.I took my guitar to 3 different techs,one of them blocked the trem and I still had the problem.I put the guitar in its case and didn't play it for a couple of years.I got it out about 2 years ago and tuned it up and started playing it alot more,the tuning didn't go sharp,my problem seemed to have gone away but,it came back a few months ago.The difference now is that it goes sharp on its own.The strings on the Comanche now have been on it for 2 months.I've used 2 different brands and three different gauges of strings in the past 4 months.D'Addario XL+ 9.5-44,D'Addario XL Pure Nickel 10-45,Dunlop Nickel Wound 10-46.I've had the same problems with all 3 sets of strings.Does anybody have any suggestions as to what might be causing these problems.

[louis cyfer]

from using the trem it should go sharp, but from doing a bend it should go flat normally. that normally indicates a nut issue, namely the nut sticking. there are a lot of reason why a guitar can go flat, that is losing tension, but to go sharp, the string tension has to increase somehow. neck movement could do this potentially, but that would be more unpredictable. what i don't get that why you wouldn't have contacted your g&l dealer back then, and have g&l fix it or replace it.

[StevenMikel]

I contacted my G&L dealer several times they said it was my strings,I even called and e-mailed G&L.I lost my warranty papers during a move so,it would of cost me as much or more to have G&L fix it than a local tech.I don't believe its the nut because I went almost 2 years without a problem,during that time I tried different brands and guages of strings but mostly used D'Addario XL 9.5-44.

[darwinohm]

I agree with Louis that the nut could potentially be the problem. That is what I would check first. Next, I would place a piece of cardboard under the back side of the trem, remove the strings from the tuners to and remove the springs from the trem. Then you can check the trem pivot screws and make sure they are not sloppy or loose. If they are, I would use teflon tape to make them fit tighter. I would then reattach the springs, string up and do a complete trem setup to G&L specs. I still suspect the nut is binding but going sharp by itself is hard to explain without a large temperature swing.-- Darwin

[StevenMikel]

Thanks.My guitar stays in the same room in the same general area of the room 90% of the time and the temp. flutuates 2 or 3 degrees from day to nite.I suspect the trem pivot screws or the pivot screw anchors are sloppy.I don't understand why I didn't have any problems for a good long while,thats why I suspect the pivot screws and/or their anchors.

[Rideoften]

I had the same problem with my new 30th anniversay Legacy. I had changed strings from the 10's it came with to 9's. As it turned out, I needed to reduce the tension on the return springs for the tremelo. After backing them off ever so slightly (about one turn each), the problem went away. That was a few months ago. Now it stays in tune fine no matter how much I bend strings or use the tremelo. Can't hurt to try. Just remember how much you turn them so you can put them back the way they were if it doesn't help.

Good luck,
Mike

[StevenMikel]

I had the same problem with my new 30th anniversay Legacy. I had changed strings from the 10's it came with to 9's. As it turned out, I needed to reduce the tension on the return springs for the tremelo. After backing them off ever so slightly (about one turn each), the problem went away. That was a few months ago. Now it stays in tune fine no matter how much I bend strings or use the tremelo. Can't hurt to try. Just remember how much you turn them so you can put them back the way they were if it doesn't help.

Good luck,
Mike

I'll try loosening the relief springs on my trem but,I don't think it will make a difference.I have my trem blocked so,I can't pull up on it.

[Rideoften]

The more common problems a guitar can have (sloppy tuners, loose neck screws, unstable bridge) usually will result in the tuning going flat. Even a sticking nut will be flat as much as sharp if you use the tremelo in both directions. It stands to reason that something (a spring) is putting more tension on the strings than your normal tuning procedure. A Comanche is a very nice guitar, if you can't figure out the problem it would be well worth letting a pro sort it out. A guitar that won't stay in tune will drive you crazy.

MIke

[Lefty]

Thanks.My guitar stays in the same room in the same general area of the room 90% of the time and the temp. flutuates 2 or 3 degrees from day to nite.I suspect the trem pivot screws or the pivot screw anchors are sloppy.I don't understand why I didn't have any problems for a good long while,thats why I suspect the pivot screws and/or their anchors.

You mention the temperature is stable - How about the humidity in the room?

[Craig]

I had the same problem with my new 30th anniversay Legacy. I had changed strings from the 10's it came with to 9's. As it turned out, I needed to reduce the tension on the return springs for the tremelo. After backing them off ever so slightly (about one turn each), the problem went away. That was a few months ago. Now it stays in tune fine no matter how much I bend strings or use the tremelo. Can't hurt to try. Just remember how much you turn them so you can put them back the way they were if it doesn't help.

Good luck,
Mike

I'll try loosening the relief springs on my trem but,I don't think it will make a difference.I have my trem blocked so,I can't pull up on it.

Make sure the bridge plate is parallel with the body. How is the trem blocked, with some type of spacer?

[StevenMikel]

Thanks.My guitar stays in the same room in the same general area of the room 90% of the time and the temp. flutuates 2 or 3 degrees from day to nite.I suspect the trem pivot screws or the pivot screw anchors are sloppy.I don't understand why I didn't have any problems for a good long while,thats why I suspect the pivot screws and/or their anchors.

You mention the temperature is stable - How about the humidity in the room?

The humidity seems stable but,I'm not realy sure.

[StevenMikel]

I had the same problem with my new 30th anniversay Legacy. I had changed strings from the 10's it came with to 9's. As it turned out, I needed to reduce the tension on the return springs for the tremelo. After backing them off ever so slightly (about one turn each), the problem went away. That was a few months ago. Now it stays in tune fine no matter how much I bend strings or use the tremelo. Can't hurt to try. Just remember how much you turn them so you can put them back the way they were if it doesn't help.

Good luck,
Mike

I'll try loosening the relief springs on my trem but,I don't think it will make a difference.I have my trem blocked so,I can't pull up on it.

Make sure the bridge plate is parallel with the body. How is the trem blocked, with some type of spacer?

Its blocked with a piece of wood between the trem block and the body.The piece of wood is glued to the body.

[StevenMikel]

I loosened the trem springs and that seems to have taken care of most of it,the low e still pulls a little sharp but,not as bad as before.I just loosened the springs about 30 minutes ago,I'm going to wait until tomorrow to be sure.

[Boogie Bill]

This is from a post of mine from October of last year, regarding a similar situation with someone’s Legacy. I have edited this post, adding additional information.

+++++++++++++++++++++

I am going to assume that your guitar is properly set-up, according to factory techniques and specs; that the bridge plate is level and 1/8” to 3/16” above the body of the guitar, and parallel to the plane of the top surface of the guitar. I will assume that the saddles are properly radiused to match the radius of the fingerboard and are the proper height above the bridge plate.

I don’t block any of the DF Vibrato’s on my guitar—the DF is designed to float freely, and I think blocking it interferes with its intended function. I’ve never owned a guitar that I had to block, and I have always enjoyed terrific tuning stability, even from my 1960 Strat with the Synchonized Tremelo, and my 1969 Telecaster Thinline with the double roller Bigsby. It’s your choice, but I would take the block out, and get it to work properly.

I have 17 G&Ls with the DF Vibrato, and I find them all to be really stable. I prefer three springs with my 9-42 sets, and rarely ever have to tune after the first set. I find that Fender Super Bullets seem to work best with the DF Vibrato. The bullet end works as advertised, and tuning seems to be more stable than ball-end strings. AND, since you never, ever want the double-wrapped part of the string at the ball-end to touch anywhere close to the apex of the saddle--the Bullet strings automatically insure that this can't happen. (BTW, I use D'Addario for all of my other guitars.)

There are a couple of other things you can do.

First I would loosen or remove the strings. Check the tightness of the tuner bushing nuts. DO NOT OVERTIGHTEN!!! You could crack the headstock. They need to be firm, but don’t use 298 lbs. of torque on them either. I think it’s a 1/2 “ socket (or metric equiv.) for these nuts; a socket is better than a wrench and less likely to scratch the headstock.

Make sure that the truss rod nut has positive pressure on it. Again, there’s no need to over-tighten. Just make sure it’s not loose.

Don't forget the plumber's Teflon Tape trick on the pivot post screws if there is any play in the posts. (Check the with the strings off.)

Try the Big Bend's Nut Sauce; I am a big fan of this product. I also use it on the nut slots, underneath the string trees and on the top of the saddles. Even on my guitars with a graphite nut. Never use it on the tuner posts.

You can use a bit of Nut Sauce or a drop of Light Machine Oil (like 3-In-One) on the prongs of the vibrato claw where the springs attach, and a touch where the springs attach to the vibrato block.

Use a bit of spray Teflon lube (Tri-Flow) (or WD-40 if you must) lightly on the coils of the springs. A rough spot on the springs can bind. Apply it with a rag, and wipe up any excess. Keep the cover plate on the back--you want to minimize dust and dirt getting in there.

Now, I find that it seems to take a little time for the knife-edge of the vibrato plate to "seat" properly on the pivot posts. Some gentle quavering will usually fix this relatively quickly. Change the height of the bridge plate, and you may have a period of re-seating to endure. I use a quick shot of the Tri-Flow on the back edge of the pivot posts after a period of time when the bridge is seated; wipe up any excess.

Check carefully that the front lip of the bridge plate is not hitting the pick-guard. I had this happen with an S-500 I bought and the guitar would not stay in tune. I'm sure this is why the previous owner sold the guitar--it would not--could not--come back in tune because the front edge of the vibrato plate would catch on the bottom edge of the pick-guard. The bridge action was not set up correctly--the posts too low and the saddles too high. Got it back in spec and has never caused me an ounce of trouble since. I have seen one other guitar with this same problem--also out of spec.

I'm going to assume that you are properly winding the strings on the split-post tuners. I measure the string two posts farther than the post I'm going to string. I make a SHARP 90-degree bend, then cut off the string about 5/8" beyond the bend. Insert the end into the hole, and make sure you wind it downward smoothly. These posts are really stable--the string at the bend actually locks itself into the shoulder of the post.

If you have locking tuners on your Comanche, you have a choice when restringing. Some people like to just insert the new string into the post, pull it tight, lock it down and then wind the string. Other people will string it like a regular post tuner, pulling it tight and then putting a loop back under the string so that it winds and locks itself against the post. They tune to pitch, stretch them, and THEN lock the string down. Whichever way you do it, if you are still having trouble with tuning stability, try the other method.

Something isn't quite right with your guitar. I hope you can find the answer soon. I can assure you that once set up properly, the DF Vibrato is very stable.

Good luck.

Bill

[Rideoften]

I loosened the trem springs and that seems to have taken care of most of it,the low e still pulls a little sharp but,not as bad as before.I just loosened the springs about 30 minutes ago,I'm going to wait until tomorrow to be sure.

I'm glad it's working for you. Loosen the tension screw on the low E side just a smidge more and you'll probably have it solved. If it were my guitar I'd remove the glued in block and enjoy it as it was designed to be used.I only have 2 USA G&L's but I find them the be extremely well made instruments.

Mike