G&L Bluesboy Prototype?

[y2kc]

There is an interesting G&L in the marketplace on the G&Ldp as well as my local Craigslist. I have seen this guitar and I am having a hard time not pulling the trigger. Prototype or not, it's a killer.
Take a look and let me know your thoughts.

y2kc

[KenC]

Interesting. My understanding is that the Bluesboy was developed by Tim Page and Seymour Duncan in 1999, so that would eliminate any chance of this guitar being the model's prototype if it had been in Dale Hyatt's hands in 1993.

The G&L Superstrats of the 1980s used Schaller humbuckers for the most part, so it seems reasonable that one could have been hanging around the factory a couple of years later. I wonder if this could have been an alternate concept from when the ASAT Classic was being developed?

Ken

[zapcosongs]

I saw this auction (link seems to no longer be here).

I have no opinion what the guitar is or is not.

Ken, though I agree with you generally on the history of the Bluesboy, I think Tim himself would tell you (and you'll probably agree) that he and Mr. Duncan were not the first to slap a humbucker in the neck position of the T-style guitar. It had been done, generally speaking, before - and more than once. In my view, what Tim and Seymour D is to find the magic marriage of the MFD single in the bridge with and it's perfect partner, the Seth Lover.

I would be surprised if Leo and his crew did not experiment with the sc/hb combination during the period in question.

- Ed

[y2kc]

This is a very cool guitar , one way or another.
I ran into the owner a month ago or so at a Chicago guitar show and he showed me this guitar. Just a very simple rock and roll beast.

Adding a humbucker in the neck position is nothing new. The 1972 tele custom is one example and you know Leo and company had done this before and after that. The Bluesboy is one of the bbe era G&L's I have always dug. Tim and Bob Page's work with bbe has produced some of their cooler guitars.

y2kc

[KenC]

It had been done, generally speaking, before - and more than once.

I must not have come across the way I intended. I didn't mean to suggest that the Bluesboy was the first HB equipped tele-style guitar. I'm just saying that if this guitar was around in 1993, then it wouldn't have been the prototype for the limited or production runs of the Bluesboy. It sounds like it's definitely an early exploration of this configuration by G&L, and could be the first HB equipped ASAT Classic that was built. It would just be separated in time from the Bluesboy product line.

Ken

[louis cyfer]

It had been done, generally speaking, before - and more than once.

I must not have come across the way I intended. I didn't mean to suggest that the Bluesboy was the first HB equipped tele-style guitar. I'm just saying that if this guitar was around in 1993, then it wouldn't have been the prototype for the limited or production runs of the Bluesboy. It sounds like it's definitely an early exploration of this configuration by G&L, and could be the first HB equipped ASAT Classic that was built. It would just be separated in time from the Bluesboy product line.

Ken

that is how i read. specific to the bluesboy, not the humbucker equipped teles. i have to agree, it can not be a bluesboy prototype.

[wired]

I own the guitar in question and I surely don't know if it was a prototype, a shop experiment, or an employee guitar. It is however unique. It sounds terrific and in my opinion better then current bluesboys. The bridge pickup seems to be hotter then other asats I owned. It's also a very nice player.

Thanks for eveyone's comments.

[Craig]

On Monday, I contacted the seller (wired) asking to get photos and his approval to post
these photos in the Gallery. Shortly after, I received some photos. I then sent
these photos to Tim Page and Gabe Dellevigne asking their thoughts on this guitar.

Tim replied:

Hi Craig

Gabe is far more of an authority than I on proto type G&L's and his friendship with Dale is much like what I had with George.

That said I have seen several over the years (I'm viewing the pics on an iPhone which never replaces in person) and the Schaller pickup looks period correct to me. I've not seen a cracked body like that (or what looks like a crack) which would reduce value $500 on it at retail. the case is not original of course. not sure on the wiring -- nor the neck from what I see.

I was under the impression that serial numbered guitars would be in the book so that concerns me.

But I have seen several variations of guitars that were given to musicians by Dale and came from his lab that when visiting Leo would say "go ahead and take it."

Regards,
Tim

I then heard from Gabe and this is his reply:

Hello Craig/Tim,

This guitar was first brought to my attention many years ago...I had all but forgotten about it until February of this year when the seller (Harry Spila) was directed towards me to see if I could help identify it. He sent me a bunch of pictures and I reviewed them.

The guitar has all the typical features common to many pre-BBE prototypical instruments. The non center-joined 2-piece soft maple body in sanding sealer is very typical. The Schaller humbucker is period correct as G&L bought a huge inventory of them from Helmut Schaller for the Superstrat line and they continued to use them through the remainder of the pre-BBE era. The date on the pickup is Junuary 1985...that's what you always find, something in between 1984 and 1986 on pre-BBE guitars. On the surface it seems like it very well could be a prototype, however, the part about getting it from Dale in 1993 seems a bit more than sketchy. First, the serial number is not in the log book. Now there are other prototypes that managed to escape the log book, however, those were never meant to be sold and Dale was never charged for them...they were built by Leo & George and they slipped out of the factory unnoticed or were given to a musician/employee. If Dale had it in his possession, that means that G&L Musical Sales had to have it in the books because Dale would have had to have paid G&L Musical Instruments for it and he would never do that unless, it was invoiced and if it was invoiced, it would have to be in the book. So the serial number not being in the book is troubling in this case.



The next problem is the manner in which the pickup was installed. You can see that the body was routed later in the game and you can also see that the route was clearly performed after the body was in sanding sealer. You can also see evidence of the original neck pickup spring bores which would never have been drilled if the body was intended for a humbucker. You can also see that the route is not consistent with a factory routing template humbucker route of the pre-BBE era and you can tell that it was not performed on one of the pin routers at the factory. The hacking of the pickguard is totally non-factory like...they had a fully equipped metal shop and would have modified the pickguard properly when it was bare aluminum, then would have sent it out for the electrostatic enamel paint job.




More problems...

The tuning machines are not original factory installed Sperzels. The Sperzel tuners used on G&L's in the pre-BBE era were unique to G&L...they were specially built by Sperzel and are not the same as what were sold to the general aftermarket. I had him remove a tuner and sure enough, you could see the original pin locating hole consistent with a factory Schaller G&L tuner of that era.


There are other small things I could point out but in the end, it doesn't really matter. In short, it is a cool old pre-BBE parts guitar. I don't know who installed the humbucker or when it was installed but it definitely didn't happen at the factory. It isn't in the log book. Did Dale sell it to the previous owner? He has no recollection of the instrument or the sale and it is not in the log book. Prototype G&L's made in the factory have plenty of hand cobbled pieces and parts but the routing always seems to have been performed professionally and before the sanding sealer was shot. This routing and pickguard modification appear to my eyes to be performed by an amateur, after the fact.

That said, the guitar is still very cool and what I told the Harry was that at a minimum, it is worth the sum of what you could sell the parts for but if you could verify the heritage, it could be worth quite a bit more. I sent him photos of the original factory hang-tags which he thought he might have. If the guitar had one, that would, without question authenticate the heritage of it though I'd still be willing to bet the humbucker was added after the guitar left the factory. He never was able to locate a hang tag so my perspective is that it is a cool old guitar that probably plays great, sounds great and looks cool...but never started life with that humbucker in the neck and therefore, it is not the predecessor to Tim's BBE era "Bluesboy". That said, I'm quite positive that legitimate ASAT Classic's with neck humbuckers and bridge single coils were built. The combinations of pickup variations in test mule instruments are bewildering and the fleet of test players of the late 80's were getting funneled many variations on each theme on a regular basis.

A cool piece...would be a fun guitar to play (you can see it has a lot of miles on it already) but not what I'd call a legitimate factory prototype.


Best Regards,

Gabe Dellevigne

Here are some of the photos Harry sent me:

I think this is the photo which Tim thinks that there is a crack in the body. I think it is part of the grain of
this Maple body and not a crack.













Thanks to wired (Harry) for the photos and to Tim and Gabe for their expertise.

It is an interesting piece of G&L history, for sure.

[Miles Smiles]

Zooming into that picture shows clearly it's grain and not a crack.

[darwinohm]

This is a cool story, cool guitar and if it were mine I would keep it.--Darwin

[zapcosongs]

Thanks Gabe. Is it any wonder that we've missed you? Hope all is well with you and yours. - ed

[wrigman]

I too PM'ed the owner about this guitar as I had some intrest in it. I DID tell him he should contact Tim about it to see if it was indeed a prototype. He said that he would think about it, but it came from Hayatt. I told him that it may have been a one off employee guitar. To that he said that it could have been.
I let him know that Tim maybe could give him some info on weather it was a prototype or not.
I told him my story about Tim telling me that a real smart guy designed the Blues Boy. Tim didn't think that I knew who he was or that he helped design it, so I had some fun with him by telling him that I heard that the guy was a moron that just got lucky that someone listened to him The look on Tims face was priceless! I then let him off the hook and told him I knew who he was and what influence he had on the design and getting it to market. I also told him that my Blues Boy is one of my KEEPER guitars and I would never get rid of it.

[zapcosongs]

LOL! You know, Tim has a Black Belt an could kick your (and my!) ass!!!

Regarding the Bluesboy, mine is not only a lifetime keeper, but the middle position on that guitar is my very favorite of all the guitars that I own - and I have a couple ;+). This is a testament to the magical pickup combination that Tim and Mr. Duncan found, which in my opinion, helps set the Bluesboy apart from other instruments of similar configuration. - ed

http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/ ... =slideshow

[KenC]

It sounds terrific and in my opinion better then current bluesboys.

I haven't had a chance to play a Bluesboy yet, but those Schaller humbuckers sounded incredible in the neck position of Superhawks. I can only imagine how it would combine with the ASAT Classic bridge pup.

I love the look of quartersawn maple under sanding sealer. My SB-1 is the same way. IMO it beats lots of gloss, tinting and flame.

Now I'm wishing I was in the market for another guitar...

Ken

[louis cyfer]

LOL! You know, Tim has a Black Belt an could kick your (and my!) ass!!!

Regarding the Bluesboy, mine is not only a lifetime keeper, but the middle position on that guitar is my very favorite of all the guitars that I own - and I have a couple ;+). This is a testament to the magical pickup combination that Tim and Mr. Duncan found, which in my opinion, helps set the Bluesboy apart from other instruments of similar configuration. - ed

http://s87.photobucket.com/albums/k156/ ... =slideshow

great pics, phenomenal looking guitar. love it. i agree, the middle position is absolutely an incredible combination. my problem was the seth lover on its own, i could not get it to open up, just too smooth, and my bridge mfd started squealing. i had to replace the bridge pup, and i chose to go with a p90 in the neck instead. i still have a great middle sound, but i like my individual bridge and neck better now.

i always enjoy giving a black belt the opportunity to kick my ass. i figure that they deserve that much after all the years of hard work fighting boards and imaginary opponents (katas).

[wrigman]

LOL! You know, Tim has a Black Belt an could kick your (and my!) ass!

HaHa! That is something I didn't know! It does not suprise me, Tim has a good temperment. I have no doubt he would only use it for defence. I should have a Black Belt in Hapkido-I PAID for my daughters Black Belt!!

Tim is a great guy and it was just funny to see the look he gave me. It wasn't so much a "I'm gonna kick your butt" look as a "who do you think your talking to" look.

Anyway......Back to the subject at hand. I don't think the guitar should be billed as a prototype, but as a nice one-off custom.

OH! AND I would like to send out a BIG CONGRATS to Louis!!!! It looks like you passed the audition to get into the band Guar!!!!!!

[wired]

Thanks for all the info everyone!

[wired]

Zooming into that picture shows clearly it's grain and not a crack.

Yes, you are correct, it's the grain. The guitar has been played but not abused in any way. It is in very good condition.