Missing serial number?

[KenS]

Hi,

Sorry for my first post being a question, but I have an unusual situation.

I am trading equipment with a trusted music store and part of the deal is an ASAT Classic Semi-hollow. The guitar is very nice, plays well, etc., but there is no serial number on the back of the headstock that I can see. The headstock has the G&L logo and the "Guitars by Leo" marking. The back of the headstock has the typical hole/plug found on USA necks. The neck plate is 4 bolt and has the G&L logo.

I'm not so much concerned about this guitar being a counterfeit (or should I be?), but I do wonder if it is a Tribute which has had the neck replaced with a USA neck. Is there anything I can look at on the body which would definitively ID this guitar as USA or Tribute? I like the guitar - but I also like to know what I am getting.

Thanks for any assistance!

Regards
Ken

[Miles Smiles]

The neck could be from an older US-Made instrument. The serial number was at the neck plate instead of the headstock. If this is the case, the neck could have holes for a 3 bolt connection. It's also possible, that that guitar had originally a 3 bolt neck connection and the neck plate with the serial has been replaced by a Moron.

If the body is US-made it should have that dark hole marks too, depending on the finish they could be visible. If it's there, the body is for sure no Tribute, if not, you still don't know.

In this picture you can see that dots. One is on the left side of the neck plate and one near the lower belt pin:
http://i.wuell.net/albums/ASAT_DeLuxe/IMG_4827.jpg

Removing the neck and having a look at the neck pocket would be good for clearance.

[KenS]

The person who sold the guitar to the shop said that the shop HE bought it from said that the guitar was a an early model, possibly a "prototype." I was of the impression that the Classic Semi hollows were all 4 bolt. At any rate, I did look at the neck joint and it looked like a perfect fit.

Given that the primary difference between the Tributes and the USA models is, according to some, the neck - it may not matter. The guitar plays well and sounds good. It's just my anal retentiveness about knowing exactly what I have that is bugging me a bit.

Thanks
Ken

[KenC]

Ken,

Is it possible to have the shop remove the neck so you can check the date stamps? Missing stamps or a bog gap between the dates could give you some clues. If you can get a couple of pictures and post them here, some of us might have other ideas.

Ken C

[Craig]

Can you post some photos of the front and back of the headstock and front of the body?

There is an easy way to tell if it's a Tribute ASAT Classic body, the location of the neck pickup is closer to the neck.
See this post: asat classic pickguard.

The US ASAT Classic Semi-Hollow production started in 1997, so the serial number should have been in this format: CL0xxxxx.
I would look for signs of refinishing on the back of the headstock. I checked our G&L Registry and didn't find any AC SH listed as
being stolen. I have my doubts about this possibly being a "prototype", however, it is possible that it was an employee built instrument
and that could explain the missing serial number.

If you can, check the build dates. They will be located in the neck pocket (body date) and on the neck heel (neck date).

Hope this helps.

[KenS]

I'll post pictures later today, but here is what I've learned (I just picked up the guitar this morning - it was getting the setup tweaked):

By Craig's test, the guitar appears to be a USA - the neck pickup seems to be in the position further from the neck.

We took the neck off: there is no date. Inside the neck pocket, "Classic 001" written neatly.

I was incorrect - I don't see a dowel hole on the back of the headstock.

When the guitar came into my local shop, one of the employees contacted G&L and they really could;t shed any definitive light on the guitar's heritage. They suggested that it might be a prototype as well, but could not say for sure.

I think that Craig's suspicion that it is an employe-built guitar is the most likely answer at this point. What I can say is that the guitar feels great and sounds great and I could not be happier with my deal (it was a trade - this guitar and a Vintage Sound V-15 amp for my Collings OM-2H and Roland Cube 80 XL. The shop even threw in a Rockcase case

Pics to come.

Thanks and regards
Ken

[louis cyfer]

you like your guitar. as far as a deal, i think the store made out like a bandit.

[KenS]

You're entitled to your opinion. Keep in mind we are talking about a $1500 amplifier + $150 in accessories + the guitar/case. I bought the Collings from this particular store and they essentially gave me what I paid for it. On a trade you are lucky anytime that happens. As a point of reference, you are lucky to get $2500 for an OM-2H (sitka) currently ( know, I follow the market) - more likely you'll get $2200-$2300 and have to deal with shipping/insurance etc. The Roland was worth $370 - So say $2200 for the Collings and $370 for the Roland and you have less than $2600 to work worth. That leaves about $950 for the guitar and case - which may not be a steal, but I would hardly say that the store "made out like a bandit." High end acoustics move slowly in my area, it could easily take them 6 months to sell it. When I had the Om-2H up for sale a few years ago (before the recession), I got no interest asking $2250.

The store makes very little on the amplifier - the builder is local to my area and they carry them to support a local. They are superb amplifiers.

[KenS]

Okay - here are the promised photos. Upon inspection, I misspoke about the dowell hole being missing on the back of the headstock. It is there - just above (and partially covered by) the D string tuner.

Ken



L1020283 by beowulf53, on Flickr


L1020284 by beowulf53, on Flickr


L1020285 by beowulf53, on Flickr


L1020286 by beowulf53, on Flickr


L1020287 by beowulf53, on Flickr


L1020288 by beowulf53, on Flickr

[KenS]

And, since it has come up in the discussion, here are a couple of shots of the Vintqge Sounds amp :


L1020290 by beowulf53, on Flickr


L1020292 by beowulf53, on Flickr

Handmade, point-to-point wiring, extremely high end components. The builder offers the prospective buyer a wide range of options pertaining to electronic components and speaker choices, My amp has the Warehouse Veteran 30 12".

Ken

[Elwood]

Sweet guitar and amp,
interesting about the lack of serial number ,

The seafoam tolex is a nice touch.

[suave eddie]

Cool looking amp. I had never heard of them before.

Is yours basically a Princeton Reverb clone with a 12" speaker?

[KenS]

Elwood - thanks!

suave eddie - pretty much. 15 watts with reverb and tremelo. All point to point: so that one so inclined can tweak/modify without too much trouble.

Ken

[louis cyfer]

i love vintage sound amps. you got great gear for sure. i have never seen the dowel hole in that location, at the top of the g tuner. usually it's lower down closer to where the neck and headstock meet somewhere in the middle.

[KenS]

i love vintage sound amps. you got great gear for sure. i have never seen the dowel hole in that location, at the top of the g tuner. usually it's lower down closer to where the neck and headstock meet somewhere in the middle.

That's why I didn't think it was there - even though the shop owner mentioned being there. I just assumed he was mistaken. I didn't see it until I looked at the photo.

They are wonderful amps; amazingly quiet for a classic tube amp. as I said, the builder is local - in fact I just came home from visiting him. He is making great stuff and is starting to get some serious recognition for it.

Ken

[Lefty]

Great looking ASAT Classic SH! The amp sounds pretty cool too!

[KenS]

Thanks, Lefty!

Another question: What is name of this color - I can't find anything exactly like it in the online pics to id it ?

Thanks
Ken

[louis cyfer]

that is cherry burst.

[KenS]

Thanks, Louis.

Ken

[SouthpawGuy]

Hard to tell but that looks like it may be a bi cut neck. Did Tribute models ever use a bi cut neck ?

[louis cyfer]

Hard to tell but that looks like it may be a bi cut neck. Did Tribute models ever use a bi cut neck ?

that's like a transition piece between flat sawn and quarter sawn but i don't see the bi cut, i blew up the pic.

[KenS]

I can find no evidence of a seam in the back of the neck. That, and the odd location of the dowel seems to add to the mystery.

Going by Craig's comment regarding the location of the neck pickup, there seems to be little doubt that this is a USA guitar. The neck decals and the presence of the dowel add to that conclusion.

If it is an employee-built guitar, then perhaps that employee preferred not to have a bi-cut? I don't believe it is definitively proven that this neck is not bi-cut, but if it isn't, that may be an explanation.

Regards
Ken

[KenS]

Another question came to mine: what does the round string tree say about the vintage of the guitar/neck? I realize that anyone can replace it and it may not be "original," but does that design suggest an era of G&L production? I have owned several Legacy guitars and one other ASAT in the past, and I don't recall them having that style of tree. Most of my other guitars were from the early-mid 90's.

Ken

[Craig]

Another question came to mine: what does the round string tree say about the vintage of the guitar/neck? I realize that anyone can replace it and it may not be "original," but does that design suggest an era of G&L production? I have owned several Legacy guitars and one other ASAT in the past, and I don't recall them having that style of tree. Most of my other guitars were from the early-mid 90's.

Ken

That is not a G&L string tree, so that will not help regarding era of production.

You might take a look in the neck pickup rout and the control cavity. There might be some info in them.
Look on the under side of the pickguard for a possible date, but again, that might not be the original guard.
Also, check the manufacturer date of the pots.

Hope this helps.

[yowhatsshakin]

To add to Craig's comments, the only G&L's I know of that have such a vintage string tree are the ASAT '50 models sold through Buffalo Bros in '99. Here a pic of the headstock of #1:

Yours might be a left-over of that run or a straight-up replacement.

- Jos

[louis cyfer]

To add to Craig's comments, the only G&L's I know of that have such a vintage string tree are the ASAT '50 models sold through Buffalo Bros in '99. Here a pic of the headstock of #1:

Yours might be a left-over of that run or a straight-up replacement.

- Jos

that is actually cool, i might consider that for my bb if i change the nut to delron 500cl. the location of the string tree on the op's headstock is certainly the correct one.

[KenS]

In response to Craig's suggestion, I looked int he pickup cavity and under the switch plate. Nothing in the pu cavity, but pickup - no swimming pool rout in this one. Looking at the switch plate, the only thing that looked like a date was on the pickup switch: 5 1992

Not sure what if anything that says about this guitar's vintage.

Ken