Can you guess this G&L prototype?

[Craig]

Let's start with a teaser:



If you thought this was a John Jorgenson ASAT Signature model ... Buzzer!!! wrong!!! ...


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Aha ... it's the Z-3 prototype built for John Jorgenson in the late '80's, right?

[Photo by Dean Coy, taken at the Hellecasters show at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz, CA in 1995]



Yes, it is THE Z-3 prototype, but it was not built in the late 80's, as was previously thought ...

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it was built from a Black finished ASAT III body dated April 16, 1990 and an S-500 neck built in December 7, 1990!



As you can see, the factory bathtub routed the body, leaving the bottom of the original ASAT III routes with
the original Black finish:



Dean and I think the body might have been a left over ASAT III Signature body, but of course, it is not possible
to tell because the body was refinished by Marty Bell in Texas in the Silver Flake finish John had requested. This
is the same finish that was used on the John Jorgenson Signature ASATs.

Marty Bell's stamp in the neck pocket, which he stamps on all the guitars he finishes. All the John Jorgenson Signature ASATs
should have this stamp in the neck pocket.



Notice that the pickguard was handcrafted for the Z-coil pickups and only the DF trem posts were cut out.
There is no cut for the curved shape of the bridge plate.



Here's a pic of both my John Jorgenson Signature model, which I got from John in 2000 (we did a swap, my JJ signature
with maple fretboard for his.) and the Z-3 prototype. Notice how much more aged the finish is on the Z-3. John used this guitar in the Hellecasters and in the Elton John Band. The JJ Signature resided mostly in the case.





I asked John when he got this guitar from G&L and he said:

Not sure, I think it was around 1995...

I also asked him what were the specific features that he wanted G&L to include in this guitar and he said:

3 Z coil PUs, G&L's 2 point trem system, silver sparkle ASAT body, and a neck similar to my Comanche prototype

Here's the story:

Dean Coy and I saw John (along with Will and Jerry) at the reunion of the Hellecasters at the
Deke Dickerson Guitar Geek Festival back in January. Before the show, John mentioned to Dean
and I that he had a guitar we might be interested in. Yes, THE Z-3 prototype.
So, I am now the proud owner of this guitar!

I also emailed Greg Gagliano about this guitar, so that he can update the info he has on this guitar
in his G&L web pages. (Hi Greg )

[jmontgomery]

Very cool! That is all I have to say

[louis cyfer]

wow. thanks for posting this. awesome.

[gitman001]

WOW, i can't believe that it is now yours! Very cool indeed Craig.

Scott

[yowhatsshakin]

Great story Craig. Congrats and what a score

BTW, the neck and body of myy JJ Sig are even further apart, by almost 2 years.


At least I have the stamp but now looking at the picture, I also see black paint residue in the pocket. Were all of the bodies really refinished by Marty instead of finished?

- Jos

[darwinohm]

That is one cool guitar Craig, Thanks for posting!-- Darwin

[willross]

Great stuff!


Cheers,

Will

[Lefty]

Great score Craig!! A keeper for sure.

[KenC]

Congratulations, Craig!

Ken

[blargfromouterspace]

Very cool, and a great story. Does it play as nice as I imagine?

[Craig]

Great story Craig. Congrats and what a score

BTW, the neck and body of myy JJ Sig are even further apart, by almost 2 years.


At least I have the stamp but now looking at the picture, I also see black paint residue in the pocket. Were all of the bodies really refinished by Marty instead of finished?

- Jos

Interesting, Jos. So, I removed the neck on my JJ Signature and this is what I found!



The body date looks to be Nov 25, 1986 and I do see a bit of black on the outer edge of the neck pocket.
The neck date is March 11, 1996, so they are over 9 yrs apart! This guitar was one of John's personal guitars which he got directly from the factory. When I got it from John
it still had the hang tags on it and did not appear to have been played, so it likely lived in the case until we did our trade in 2000. I don't remember whether or not I had to
remove the plastic on the pickguard. Given the body date I immediately thought that the body wood might be Maple, but it looks to be Alder, oh well. Your's looks to be Alder
as well, don't you think?

I checked the G&L Registry and yours and mine are the only ones which have build year dates different on the neck and body (of the ones with dates listed, of course).

I'm going to query Dave about yours and mine. Perhaps I can find out more about them. Where did you get yours from?

[Craig]

Very cool, and a great story. Does it play as nice as I imagine?

Yes it does, but as hard as I try, it does not sound the same as when John played it!

[yowhatsshakin]

I'm going to query Dave about yours and mine. Perhaps I can find out more about them. Where did you get yours from?

Thanks for checking in with Dave about this. I got mine a couple of years back from Jerry's Guitar Store in Texas. I have always been wondering why the neck and pocket date were so different. But everything looked kosher at the time of purchase (and still does). The neck on mine has a very nice flame to boot:

BTW, is that one of the chromed JJ neckplates on your JJ Sig? Some months after I purchased mine, I got an unfinished one from Thumbs. It is just a nice little appropriate additional thing to have :

I always enjoy read in what John himself had to say about this model in this guitarinternational.com interview.

Love to learn more about these models and thanks again Craig.

- Jos

[Craig]

BTW, is that one of the chromed JJ neckplates on your JJ Sig? Some months after I purchased mine, I got an unfinished one from Thumbs. It is just a nice little appropriate additional thing to have :

- Jos

Yeah, when Dean went to the factory to photo document the Leo and George's blueprints, he
came across these chome JJ neckplates. Dave let him have a couple and Dean gave me one for
my JJ Signature ASAT. Mine is JJ0005 and I replaced the neckplate with the chrome one. Just
kinda completes it.

[JagInTheBag]

My little Korean Cousin: WR Z-3 says "HI"!

[yowhatsshakin]

Your's looks to be Alder
as well, don't you think?

I had mine down as ash. For sure it isn't maple. Yours seems to be a little darker wood than mine. But you still might be right.

Yeah, when Dean went to the factory to photo document the Leo and George's blueprints, he
came across these chome JJ neckplates. Dave let him have a couple and Dean gave me one for
my JJ Signature ASAT. Mine is JJ0005 and I replaced the neckplate with the chrome one. Just
kinda completes it.

I hear ya, I hear ya ... My plate comes a little later

This kind of stuff is what makes this forum such a fun place for me. Thanks Craig! Your observations on date stamps in the Registry are indeed intriguing. The body date stamps all are '95 (except for yours) and then our necks seem to be an exception. As I wrote in my entry, it might be that this a repair job. I bet that given there were only about 190 JJ Sigs produced, they might have had a couple of left over decals so it would not be impossible to have such a late neck. On my neck heel you see that some stuff got crossed out and I cannot really make out what it originally said. But again, the neck on mine id of extraordinary quality. And I hope Dave gets back to you about these guitars.

- Jos

[Craig]

Great story Craig. Congrats and what a score

BTW, the neck and body of myy JJ Sig are even further apart, by almost 2 years.


At least I have the stamp but now looking at the picture, I also see black paint residue in the pocket. Were all of the bodies really refinished by Marty instead of finished?

- Jos

Interesting, Jos. So, I removed the neck on my JJ Signature and this is what I found!



The body date looks to be Nov 25, 1986 and I do see a bit of black on the outer edge of the neck pocket.
The neck date is March 11, 1996, so they are over 9 yrs apart! This guitar was one of John's personal guitars which he got directly from the factory. When I got it from John
it still had the hang tags on it and did not appear to have been played, so it likely lived in the case until we did our trade in 2000. I don't remember whether or not I had to
remove the plastic on the pickguard. Given the body date I immediately thought that the body wood might be Maple, but it looks to be Alder, oh well. Your's looks to be Alder
as well, don't you think?

I checked the G&L Registry and yours and mine are the only ones which have build year dates different on the neck and body (of the ones with dates listed, of course).

I'm going to query Dave about yours and mine. Perhaps I can find out more about them. Where did you get yours from?

I have not connected with Dave, yet. However, I discussed this with Dean (Coy) over the weekend and
he reminded me that Amanda Y. would have some different colored felt pens at her workbench. She used
them to cover raw wood in the neck pocket during assembly. Take a look again at your JJ neck pocket and
that looks like black ink instead of black body finish.

Here are a few pictures of her assembling my 2003 S-500 Deluxe and you can see a
yellow pen (since the finish is Honeyburst) which she used in the neck pocket:





Here is Amanda using a moto tool to clean the neck pocket:



Here's Gene with the guitar after he finished his magic setup:


BTW, this guitar resides somewhere in Australia. I sold it in 2007 to fund some other purchase.

This kind of stuff is what makes this forum such a fun place for me. Thanks Craig! Your observations on date stamps in the Registry are indeed intriguing. The body date stamps all are '95 (except for yours) and then our necks seem to be an exception. As I wrote in my entry, it might be that this a repair job. I bet that given there were only about 190 JJ Sigs produced, they might have had a couple of left over decals so it would not be impossible to have such a late neck. On my neck heel you see that some stuff got crossed out and I cannot really make out what it originally said. But again, the neck on mine id of extraordinary quality. And I hope Dave gets back to you about these guitars.

- Jos

I think you might be right about the neck on yours. It might have been replaced and would explain the neck date.

On mine, Dean pointed out that the body date might just be an error in setting the year on the stamper.
I agree that this could be the case and that would make the build date as Nov. 25, 1995 or 1996.

So, I don't think that any of the bodies used for the JJ Signature ASATs were factory recyled bodies.

[MrRoundel]

Greetings GbL'rs,
I hope that everybody's enjoying their lives, musically and otherwise.
Interesting thread. I know what Craig means about his guitar not sounding the same as when JJ owned it. I can't remember if I ever mentioned it here, but when I saw JJ play with Albert Lee last year, JJ did play his Comanche for a song or two. That was very cool. That man can surely play. He and Albert Lee put on a real clinic at the Canyon Club.
Everybody be cool out there. Thanks for the great thread.
MrR

[Elwood]

Nice to see ya pop in MrR !

[MrRoundel]

Been a while since I "popped" in. I hope that the G&L crew has been well, and enjoying their instruments.

I have a question about the JJ guitars. Does anyone know if G&L ever had them made with pickup covers that match the silver heavy-metallic flake? I saw the picture of one recently, and don't see that treatment on any of the others. (Question answered: The pickups are Rio Grandes, not MFD's.)

Note: I probably should make a correction to my last post regarding John Jorgenson playing a Comanche at the Canyon Club in Agoura Hills, CA. You see, the other night I was fortunate enough to see JJ, as the special guest with the Carl Verheyen Band, at a small venue in Westlake Village, CA. After the great show, I got a chance to talk to JJ for a few minutes. He was super nice guy, and seemed to enjoy talking gear with the gear-heads and aspiring guitarists. Anyway, I mentioned to him that I'd seen him playing with Albert Lee a few years ago, and that I thought he might have been playing his Comanche. He said that he was probably playing his Fender-made instrument on that night. He added that he had Fender specially make the offset type pickups that looked a bit like Z-coils. I believe that he also mentioned that he still has the prototype Comanche in his possession.

If I get the word from the CV Band bass player, Dave Marotta (a windsurf buddy), that they'll be at the venue with JJ, or other great guest guitarist, I'll alert the crew here. I'm taking it for granted that some would be interested. I wonder if Gabe D. was at the show, as he reportedly lives a stone's throw from this particular venue.



Cheers all.

[Lacking Talent]

Very cool thread, thanks for resurrecting -- hadn't seen it before! On a semi-related noted -- and the off-chance anyone might be interested in or entertained by seeing it -- I used to have this other Jorgenson sig:

[jmontgomery]

Nice!

[Lacking Talent]

Like toting an anvil, that one was!

[KenC]

Given the body date I immediately thought that the body wood might be Maple, but it looks to be Alder, oh well. Your's looks to be Alder
as well, don't you think?

On mine, Dean pointed out that the body date might just be an error in setting the year on the stamper.
I agree that this could be the case and that would make the build date as Nov. 25, 1995 or 1996.

I'm a little late to the party on this one, but wouldn't alder bodies put the manufacture in the '90s? I am not aware of alder being used during the Leo era, unless it was right before the transition to BBE ownership.

Ken