Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
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Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Halfway to Friday!
Lunch:
I'm posting early again today, but this time I really will have the roast beef deli sandwich with Sun Chips and a diet soda. Hopefully the lines won't be too long.
G&L Topic of the Day:
I'll continue the theme of G&L product lines in the early days, this time with the Strat-type designs. George Fullerton wrote that he and Leo wanted to avoid anything that resembled their old Fender designs, but dealers and customers kept asking for instruments that were more traditional than the F-100 and G-200. This led to the introduction of the S-500 in 1982, and the Nighthawk the following year. The threat of a lawsuit caused G&L to change the name from Nighthawk to Skyhawk after less than 300 units were produced. Here's a somewhat blurry picture of these three instruments lined up in a row:
From left to right, they're an '82 S-500, and '83 Nighthawk, and a Skyhawk from between '84 and '87.
The main difference I can tell between the S-500 and the Nighthawk was that the contours were much more pronounced (and comfortable, IMO) on the Nighthawk, and the pickguard went from black crinkle to three-ply black plastic. These guitars had the same circuit but different pickups, and the S-500 bridge pickup was at a much sharper angle. The early S-500 pickups had squared-off corners, and apparently would not fit into a body routed for standard Strat pickups. The Nighthawk pickups were designed to be direct replacements on Strats, and put G&L into the aftermarket pickup market. Here are a couple of close-ups, with the first being the S-500:
The Skyhawk remained identical to the Nighthawk for several years, except for a change to the circuitry. My personal take on these three instruments is that the S-500 is pretty aggressive for a Strat-type configuration, the Skyhawk has the most open and airy sound, and the Nighthawk is somewhere in between. Except for a slight difference in the contours, they all feel and play about the same.
The S-500 remains in the G&L line-up today as the most elaborate Strat-type instrument, although the pickups and cosmetics have changed since the early '80s. The Skyhawk went away at the beginning of the BBE era, just before the Legacy entered the line-up. Meanwhile, various SuperStrats came, went, and returned, and the Comanche came onto the scene to stay. So, here are the questions of the day (finally!): What do you think has been G&L's ultimate expression of George & Leo's original Stratocaster concept? Do you think the Legacy, Comanche and modern S-500 are here to stay, or do you see room for further evolution?
Non-G&L Question of the Day:
Continuing the theme of changes: What in your world has remained the same over the years, that you hope will stay that way?
Ken
Lunch:
I'm posting early again today, but this time I really will have the roast beef deli sandwich with Sun Chips and a diet soda. Hopefully the lines won't be too long.
G&L Topic of the Day:
I'll continue the theme of G&L product lines in the early days, this time with the Strat-type designs. George Fullerton wrote that he and Leo wanted to avoid anything that resembled their old Fender designs, but dealers and customers kept asking for instruments that were more traditional than the F-100 and G-200. This led to the introduction of the S-500 in 1982, and the Nighthawk the following year. The threat of a lawsuit caused G&L to change the name from Nighthawk to Skyhawk after less than 300 units were produced. Here's a somewhat blurry picture of these three instruments lined up in a row:
From left to right, they're an '82 S-500, and '83 Nighthawk, and a Skyhawk from between '84 and '87.
The main difference I can tell between the S-500 and the Nighthawk was that the contours were much more pronounced (and comfortable, IMO) on the Nighthawk, and the pickguard went from black crinkle to three-ply black plastic. These guitars had the same circuit but different pickups, and the S-500 bridge pickup was at a much sharper angle. The early S-500 pickups had squared-off corners, and apparently would not fit into a body routed for standard Strat pickups. The Nighthawk pickups were designed to be direct replacements on Strats, and put G&L into the aftermarket pickup market. Here are a couple of close-ups, with the first being the S-500:
The Skyhawk remained identical to the Nighthawk for several years, except for a change to the circuitry. My personal take on these three instruments is that the S-500 is pretty aggressive for a Strat-type configuration, the Skyhawk has the most open and airy sound, and the Nighthawk is somewhere in between. Except for a slight difference in the contours, they all feel and play about the same.
The S-500 remains in the G&L line-up today as the most elaborate Strat-type instrument, although the pickups and cosmetics have changed since the early '80s. The Skyhawk went away at the beginning of the BBE era, just before the Legacy entered the line-up. Meanwhile, various SuperStrats came, went, and returned, and the Comanche came onto the scene to stay. So, here are the questions of the day (finally!): What do you think has been G&L's ultimate expression of George & Leo's original Stratocaster concept? Do you think the Legacy, Comanche and modern S-500 are here to stay, or do you see room for further evolution?
Non-G&L Question of the Day:
Continuing the theme of changes: What in your world has remained the same over the years, that you hope will stay that way?
Ken
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Hey Ken,
You have some great early G&L stuff! I only have BBE era stuff, but would love someday to have the chance to play some early stuff.
Scott
You have some great early G&L stuff! I only have BBE era stuff, but would love someday to have the chance to play some early stuff.
I think the s-500 has to be the best expression of George and Leo's strat concept. It has tone combinations for days, the ability to cover just about every situation from jazz to rock, along with the original unmistakable styling that made it such a success 60 years ago.KenC wrote:What do you think has been G&L's ultimate expression of George & Leo's original Stratocaster concept?
I personally can't see G&L doing away with any of these models. I think they are here for the long haul.... don't mess with success!KenC wrote:Do you think the Legacy, Comanche and modern S-500 are here to stay, or do you see room for further evolution?
Being able to be a full time musician over the last 15 years has been amazing - i hope it will stay that way for the next 50!KenC wrote:Non-G&L Question of the Day:
Continuing the theme of changes: What in your world has remained the same over the years, that you hope will stay that way?
Scott
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Hi Ken,
Finally I'm up early enough to be able to make a contributions to your LR's. Nice to see some attention to the 'old' G&L's!
- Jos
Ken[/quote]
Finally I'm up early enough to be able to make a contributions to your LR's. Nice to see some attention to the 'old' G&L's!
Several answers here. If your question is focused on which G&L is closest to the original Strat as they built it 60 odd years ago, my vote would go to the George Fullerton Signature model. I still find it unfortunate it was discontinued in 2008. If on the other hand the question is focussed on how they would have built it given everything that is known and available today, it might very well be the Comanche with the PTB controls and quiet pups. However, music would have sounded very differently in the interim. Is there room for another evolution? I don't see it, but who knows there is a whipper snapper out there thinking of some cool thing. And more than likely, when that new thing comes on the scene I be one to think 'Duh, why didn't I think of that?'.KenC wrote:What do you think has been G&L's ultimate expression of George & Leo's original Stratocaster concept? Do you think the Legacy, Comanche and modern S-500 are here to stay, or do you see room for further evolution?
My continued love for music, guitars, software, physics (and science), life in general, and my wife.KenC wrote:Non-G&L Question of the Day:
Continuing the theme of changes: What in your world has remained the same over the years, that you hope will stay that way?
- Jos
Ken[/quote]
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
First a note from testersday regarding the SC Series guitars and basses, according to dale Hyat, The SC-2 (like the SC-1, HG-2 and SC-3) were designed not so much as student models but as a cost effective line to give G&L something to compete against the offshore brands of that timeframe (think Japanese and Korean). It was designed to get their foot in the door...nothing less, nothing more.
It just so happens that their price point put them in the "student" or "budget" category from a dealers perspective but the truth was that the SC/HG line was really more of a professional level instrument.
My fav Strat style G&Ls in order, THE KING
THE QUEEN
THE PRINCE GEORGE
Keep the oldies comming!!!
It just so happens that their price point put them in the "student" or "budget" category from a dealers perspective but the truth was that the SC/HG line was really more of a professional level instrument.
My fav Strat style G&Ls in order, THE KING
THE QUEEN
THE PRINCE GEORGE
Keep the oldies comming!!!
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
I hope this was just a quiet day on the board, and I haven't run everybody away !
Scott: I agree with your assessment. I've only had a couple of minutes of playing time on a modern S-500, but it was a phenomenal instrument. The neck was a bit chunky for my tastes, but everything else about that guitar was incredible.
Jos: I haven't had a chance to play a Fullerton Sig or a Comanche, but I look forward to it happening sometime. By the way, what field of science do you teach?
Gary: Those are some beauties. I especially like the screaming yellow SC-3. Is the F-100 on the wall candy apple gold?
Ken
Scott: I agree with your assessment. I've only had a couple of minutes of playing time on a modern S-500, but it was a phenomenal instrument. The neck was a bit chunky for my tastes, but everything else about that guitar was incredible.
Jos: I haven't had a chance to play a Fullerton Sig or a Comanche, but I look forward to it happening sometime. By the way, what field of science do you teach?
Gary: Those are some beauties. I especially like the screaming yellow SC-3. Is the F-100 on the wall candy apple gold?
Ken
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
That has to be the most fun room in NY! Cool amps, cool guitars, and look at the size of that bottle of wine!westsideduck wrote:
-Jamie
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Hey Ken I think there's just not a lot of us Leo era fathfull around anymore, that's a rare Candy Lemon 100 on the wall and jamie we don't mess with big bottles of wine here in NY that'a a giant wiskey bottle!
gary
gary
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
The most old strat-like G&Ls I have played are the later model SC-3's and the late 80's S-500's.KenC wrote: What do you think has been G&L's ultimate expression of George & Leo's original Stratocaster concept? Do you think the Legacy, Comanche and modern S-500 are here to stay, or do you see room for further evolution?
The early S-500's are definitely the muscle cars of the G&L line...given how music/amps/effects
evolved since the first strats, I'd say it is one of the best designed and coolest looking of the single coil G&Ls. I love how they tweeked the design and came up with the nighthawk/skyhawk.
This combination of most of the above turned out really well;
mid 80's S-500 neck, '82 mahogany S-500 body, SC-3 pickups,with skyhawk controls
I've since sold these two, the seafoam S-500 has a great strat sound and a top end that wasn't brittle,
the sunburst S-500 really had to much sizzle, I would have played with the caps but it was minty had plenty of others to mod.
G&L's current line has a good variety with some unique things to offer. I think there is still some
room for adding some options , (e.g. twelve string , G200 , and dare I say...Baritone ??!)
Great shots of your early G&L's ( love the shot of westsideducks SC harem too),
I'm enjoying the LR's ...keep 'em coming ,
Elwood
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Ha! I'm guessing that the wine bottle is the one on the window sill to the left of "my" SC-3, lol! - edwestsideduck wrote:Hey Ken I think there's just not a lot of us Leo era fathfull around anymore, that's a rare Candy Lemon 100 on the wall and jamie we don't mess with big bottles of wine here in NY that'a a giant wiskey bottle!
gary
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Ken, just ducking in for a minute. Have had relatives for the last couple of days.
I think that G&L has continued with the Strat and Tele style bodies very well. Just look at the pickup options available.
The biggest change in my life is getting older. Have a great day everyone.-- Darwin
I think that G&L has continued with the Strat and Tele style bodies very well. Just look at the pickup options available.
The biggest change in my life is getting older. Have a great day everyone.-- Darwin
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
I was an experimental nuclear physicist until about a decade ago and taught (nuclear) physics (well duh!) in Amsterdam (NL), Groningen (NL), Catania (IT), and here at the UW. Always had a lot of fun doing it, Now I'm teaching young software developers the ropes in writing decent code instead of the crapware and vaporware that seem to dominate the fieldKenC wrote:Jos: I haven't had a chance to play a Fullerton Sig or a Comanche, but I look forward to it happening sometime. By the way, what field of science do you teach?
- Jos
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Jos- I was a Geographic Information Systems (GIS) developer, studied Environmental Systems and Water Resource Management. Not loving the working for the government or government vendors, I spent the late 90's and early 00's as an IT recuiter, finding good software developers for the e-commerce push as well as electronic trading and real time clearing systems. Now, I sell used (muscle)cars. LOL!
Lunch was a power bar eaten while fishing with my kids.
Lunch was a power bar eaten while fishing with my kids.
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
I thought briefly about stretching out my masters program with an additional major in health physics. My official major was industrial hygiene, so the additional coursework wouldn't have been very far off-topic. Then I realized that for the rest of my working life I would be saddled with radiation safety officer duties at no additional pay, so that changed my mind very quickly!yowhatsshakin wrote:I was an experimental nuclear physicist until about a decade ago and taught (nuclear) physics (well duh!) in Amsterdam (NL), Groningen (NL), Catania (IT), and here at the UW.
Ken
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Ken,
Know what you are talking about. Talking about radiation safety, I always have found it ironic that as a nuclear physicist I likely accumulate less radiation per annum than right now. Every month, the read-out of the control photometer in the (accelerator) lab, which is supposed to be representative of what an average person would accumulate, was consistently less than the read-out of the scientists and researchers, even those doing experiments. And I can vouch for us wearing that batch practically day in-day out. When discussing it with friends and other, being a nuclear physicist usually evokes a picture you are immersed in high levels of radiation all the time. But I was a researcher and frequently the don't understand that when you turn off the beam (or accelerator for that matter), the radiation in the experimental 'cave' drop to 0 right away. And by working underground there is so much less cosmic radiation you receive. Now I work on the 8th floor of a high-rise and so much closer to the source
- Jos
Know what you are talking about. Talking about radiation safety, I always have found it ironic that as a nuclear physicist I likely accumulate less radiation per annum than right now. Every month, the read-out of the control photometer in the (accelerator) lab, which is supposed to be representative of what an average person would accumulate, was consistently less than the read-out of the scientists and researchers, even those doing experiments. And I can vouch for us wearing that batch practically day in-day out. When discussing it with friends and other, being a nuclear physicist usually evokes a picture you are immersed in high levels of radiation all the time. But I was a researcher and frequently the don't understand that when you turn off the beam (or accelerator for that matter), the radiation in the experimental 'cave' drop to 0 right away. And by working underground there is so much less cosmic radiation you receive. Now I work on the 8th floor of a high-rise and so much closer to the source
- Jos
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Jos,
Our labs worked mainly with tritiated tissues and a handful of electron capture detectors. The only readings I ever got on the scientists' badges was when they would carry them on flights to conferences. I could never quite figure why they did that, other than to get back at me for nagging them about laboratory housekeeping!
Ken
Our labs worked mainly with tritiated tissues and a handful of electron capture detectors. The only readings I ever got on the scientists' badges was when they would carry them on flights to conferences. I could never quite figure why they did that, other than to get back at me for nagging them about laboratory housekeeping!
Ken
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Re: Early Wednesday Lunch Report - 3/28/12
Less chatter about irradiated titration tubes and more G&L super strats!KenC wrote:Jos,
Our labs worked mainly with tritiated tissues and a handful of electron capture detectors. The only readings I ever got on the scientists' badges was when they would carry them on flights to conferences. I could never quite figure why they did that, other than to get back at me for nagging them about laboratory housekeeping!
Ken
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