G&L Legacy out of Tune

[Demo West]

Hello Fellow Guitarists,

Last Wednesday I got my brand new G&L Legacy USA. What an excellent sound this guitar produces! However, there is an issue I would like to ask your advise for.

I'm a very light-handed player. Nevertheless, as soon as I touch the instrument it goes out of tune. Whether I use the whammy bar or not, even just resting my arm on the guitar's body, it goes out of tune.

I should mention that I play the guitar for the last 48 years and hence know how to handle a guitar equipped with a tremolo.

Is this a common issue? Is there a fix for it, short of sending the guitar back to the dealer I bought it from (which I would hate to do)?

Your suggestions are most appreciated.

Best Regards,

Joachim

[louis cyfer]

need a lot more info. what string goes out of tune, up, down, open string or fretted, what are you playing when it happens? post a video of this, and we could really help you solve this. otherwise it's just guessing in the dark.

[Demo West]

need a lot more info. what string goes out of tune, up, down, open string or fretted, what are you playing when it happens? post a video of this, and we could really help you solve this. otherwise it's just guessing in the dark.

Thanks for your reply.

It's not one particular string that goes out of tune but all strings, open and fretted. When I pull the whammy bar and release it again, the tone goes up. When pushing the whammy bar, the tone goes down after releasing.

It doesn't matter what I play. After tuning the guitar, then touching the whammy bar for a second, it's out of tune again.

[helle-man]

The first thing I always do after getting a new guitar is to change the strings to my regular brand & gauge.

The second thing I always do is this: As I'm installing the new strings, I always, ALWAYS put Teflon gel in the nut slots. Strings tend to get hung up there, and I find guitars go out of tune there more than all other factors combined.

I use Big Bends Nut Sauce, but any good lubricant will do as long as it's safe on plastic.

My 2¢
WR

[Demo West]

The first thing I always do after getting a new guitar is to change the strings to my regular brand & gauge.

The second thing I always do is this: As I'm installing the new strings, I always, ALWAYS put Teflon gel in the nut slots. Strings tend to get hung up there, and I find guitars go out of tune there more than all other factors combined.

I use Big Bends Nut Sauce, but any good lubricant will do as long as it's safe on plastic.

My 2¢
WR

Thank you for your suggestion. I'll do as you say.

However, I'm under the impression that the tremolo unit does not completely return to its resting position after me using the whammy bar. I wonder it that's something that might adjust itself after some time playing the instrument.

[Craig]

The first thing I always do after getting a new guitar is to change the strings to my regular brand & gauge.

The second thing I always do is this: As I'm installing the new strings, I always, ALWAYS put Teflon gel in the nut slots. Strings tend to get hung up there, and I find guitars go out of tune there more than all other factors combined.

I use Big Bends Nut Sauce, but any good lubricant will do as long as it's safe on plastic.

My 2¢
WR

Thank you for your suggestion. I'll do as you say.

However, I'm under the impression that the tremolo unit does not completely return to its resting position after me using the whammy bar. I wonder it that's something that might adjust itself after some time playing the instrument.

Since you only have one string going out of tune, the DF trem is not likely the problem. However, check this post on DF trem setup: Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars.

If these don't help, take it to your G&L dealer and have them look into this problem. It should be covered under warranty.

Hope this helps.

[Demo West]

The first thing I always do after getting a new guitar is to change the strings to my regular brand & gauge.

The second thing I always do is this: As I'm installing the new strings, I always, ALWAYS put Teflon gel in the nut slots. Strings tend to get hung up there, and I find guitars go out of tune there more than all other factors combined.

I use Big Bends Nut Sauce, but any good lubricant will do as long as it's safe on plastic.

My 2¢
WR

Thank you for your suggestion. I'll do as you say.

However, I'm under the impression that the tremolo unit does not completely return to its resting position after me using the whammy bar. I wonder it that's something that might adjust itself after some time playing the instrument.

Since you only have one string going out of tune, the DF trem is not likely the problem. However, check this post on DF trem setup: Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars.

If these don't help, take it to your G&L dealer and have them look into this problem. It should be covered under warranty.

Hope this helps.

Sorry, it's not only one string but all strings that go out of tune.

[Craig]

The first thing I always do after getting a new guitar is to change the strings to my regular brand & gauge.

The second thing I always do is this: As I'm installing the new strings, I always, ALWAYS put Teflon gel in the nut slots. Strings tend to get hung up there, and I find guitars go out of tune there more than all other factors combined.

I use Big Bends Nut Sauce, but any good lubricant will do as long as it's safe on plastic.

My 2¢
WR

Thank you for your suggestion. I'll do as you say.

However, I'm under the impression that the tremolo unit does not completely return to its resting position after me using the whammy bar. I wonder it that's something that might adjust itself after some time playing the instrument.

Since you only have one string going out of tune, the DF trem is not likely the problem. However, check this post on DF trem setup: Current Factory setups for DF vibrato G&L guitars.

If these don't help, take it to your G&L dealer and have them look into this problem. It should be covered under warranty.

Hope this helps.

Sorry, it's not only one string but all strings that go out of tune.

I should know better than to read these posts before having my first cup of coffee.

Definitely check the setup using the link to the setup post.

Sorry for the mis-read of your post.

[yowhatsshakin]

Although it is more likely that it is something related to set-up as mentioned above, also check whether the neck is firmly attached. I have noticed a similar problem after I had necks removed to take pictures of the date stamps in neck pocket and on neck heel and hadn't tightened the neck screws sufficiently. When there is still a little play, even draping the guitar over your shoulder gets everything out of tune, let alone when you start grabbing the neck. Might be as simple as that. But remember, tight is tight. Don't force anything!

- Jos

[Demo West]

Although it is more likely that it is something related to set-up as mentioned above, also check whether the neck is firmly attached. I have noticed a similar problem after I had necks removed to take pictures of the date stamps in neck pocket and on neck heel and hadn't tightened the neck screws sufficiently. When there is still a little play, even draping the guitar over your shoulder gets everything out of tune, let alone when you start grabbing the neck. Might be as simple as that. But remember, tight is tight. Don't force anything!

- Jos

Thanks for your suggestion. The neck is tightly screwed on.

I gues I just play a little more with the guitar and see what happens. Contact with the local G&L dealer has been made, but all the important people are at the Musikmesse (Music Exhibition) in Frankfurt this week.

[Craig]

Although it is more likely that it is something related to set-up as mentioned above, also check whether the neck is firmly attached. I have noticed a similar problem after I had necks removed to take pictures of the date stamps in neck pocket and on neck heel and hadn't tightened the neck screws sufficiently. When there is still a little play, even draping the guitar over your shoulder gets everything out of tune, let alone when you start grabbing the neck. Might be as simple as that. But remember, tight is tight. Don't force anything!

- Jos

Thanks for your suggestion. The neck is tightly screwed on.

I gues I just play a little more with the guitar and see what happens. Contact with the local G&L dealer has been made, but all the important people are at the Musikmesse (Music Exhibition) in Frankfurt this week.

Jos has a good point, so use this post: String alignment issues and a simple cure, to insure the neck is seated in the neck pocket completely.

BTW, where are you located?

Hope this helps.

[Demo West]

Although it is more likely that it is something related to set-up as mentioned above, also check whether the neck is firmly attached. I have noticed a similar problem after I had necks removed to take pictures of the date stamps in neck pocket and on neck heel and hadn't tightened the neck screws sufficiently. When there is still a little play, even draping the guitar over your shoulder gets everything out of tune, let alone when you start grabbing the neck. Might be as simple as that. But remember, tight is tight. Don't force anything!

- Jos

Thanks for your suggestion. The neck is tightly screwed on.

I gues I just play a little more with the guitar and see what happens. Contact with the local G&L dealer has been made, but all the important people are at the Musikmesse (Music Exhibition) in Frankfurt this week.

Jos has a good point, so use this post: String alignment issues and a simple cure, to insure the neck is seated in the neck pocket completely.

BTW, where are you located?

Hope this helps.

I'll give it my best shot.

I'm located in Upper Bavaria, close to the Southern German Alps.

Thank you for all your help.

[Miles Smiles]

As you wrote, the strings are too low after pushing the vibrato arm down and too high after pulling it, it's not an issue with the nut, but the unit does clearly not fully return to the starting point.

So I'd search the problem at the vibrato unit itself. You could remove the backplate and have a look if there absolutely nothing is in contact with the block, except the springs of course.

[Demo West]

As you wrote, the strings are too low after pushing the vibrato arm down and too high after pulling it, it's not an issue with the nut, but the unit does clearly not fully return to the starting point.

So I'd search the problem at the vibrato unit itself. You could remove the backplate and have a look if there absolutely nothing is in contact with the block, except the springs of course.

Thank you for confirming my thoughts. I'll check it today and report back.

[Demo West]

I did everything suggested in the above posts, to no avail.

The culprit is definately the tremolo unit. Without the whammy bar attached the guitar holds its tuning perfectly (unless, of course, I push or pull the tremolo unit by hand). So the guitar will be send back to the dealer tomorrow. I just hope they can fix it, because I'd hate a replacement as this Legacy in my ears is an exceptionally good sounding instrument.

I find it, however, extremely disappointing and upsetting that the guitar allegedly has been setup twice, at the factory and again at the G&L distributorship in Germany, and yet the problem passed by unrecognized.

Thank you for all your suggestions.

[panchito]

I had similar problems with my S-500 Tribute. Using some Teflon gel in the nut slots, as Will Ray recommended, and installing a third spring solved the problems.

[Demo West]

I had similar problems with my S-500 Tribute. Using some Teflon gel in the nut slots, as Will Ray recommended, and installing a third spring solved the problems.

I've been trying any trick in the book to resolve this problem. Instead of Teflon gel I tried Graphite as a "lubricant". The third installed spring seams to be standard in a Legacy anyway - no success.

A guitar's mechanics are no rocket science. But still, I'm at a lost end where to go from here and curious what my G&L dealer is going to do about it.

[louis cyfer]

I had similar problems with my S-500 Tribute. Using some Teflon gel in the nut slots, as Will Ray recommended, and installing a third spring solved the problems.

I've been trying any trick in the book to resolve this problem. Instead of Teflon gel I tried Graphite as a "lubricant". The third installed spring seams to be standard in a Legacy anyway - no success.

A guitar's mechanics are no rocket science. But still, I'm at a lost end where to go from here and curious what my G&L dealer is going to do about it.

that solution wouldn't work for you, because that is to solve the opposite. if you pull up it goes flat, go down and the strings go sharp. that is nut binding. in your case the bridge plate is sticking out of zero return, you will need a new bridge plate more than likely, there is probably a machining fault of the edge. or the studs. one of the 2 or both.

[Demo West]

I had similar problems with my S-500 Tribute. Using some Teflon gel in the nut slots, as Will Ray recommended, and installing a third spring solved the problems.

I've been trying any trick in the book to resolve this problem. Instead of Teflon gel I tried Graphite as a "lubricant". The third installed spring seams to be standard in a Legacy anyway - no success.

A guitar's mechanics are no rocket science. But still, I'm at a lost end where to go from here and curious what my G&L dealer is going to do about it.

that solution wouldn't work for you, because that is to solve the opposite. if you pull up it goes flat, go down and the strings go sharp. that is nut binding. in your case the bridge plate is sticking out of zero return, you will need a new bridge plate more than likely, there is probably a machining fault of the edge. or the studs. one of the 2 or both.

Thank you for your opinion with which I quite agree. Therefore, I passed on your suggestion to my G&L dealer. I just wonder how this obvious fault could have passed by the people at G&L in the U.S. as well as in Germany unnoticed.

[Craig]

I did everything suggested in the above posts, to no avail.

The culprit is definately the tremolo unit. Without the whammy bar attached the guitar holds its tuning perfectly (unless, of course, I push or pull the tremolo unit by hand). So the guitar will be send back to the dealer tomorrow. I just hope they can fix it, because I'd hate a replacement as this Legacy in my ears is an exceptionally good sounding instrument.

I find it, however, extremely disappointing and upsetting that the guitar allegedly has been setup twice, at the factory and again at the G&L distributorship in Germany, and yet the problem passed by unrecognized.

Thank you for all your suggestions.

From your descriptions, it would appear that the setup done by the distributor was not to
factory specifications like it was when it shipped from the Fullerton factory. I wonder if they
also made a string gauge change, say from 10's to 11's or 12's? Does the bridge plate measure
1/8" from the body at ALL points? If they changed the fulcrum post height of either/or both
posts and did not set them to the same height, that might cause this problem.

Definitely take it to the selling dealer and let them determine how it should best be handled in
getting it resolved. You must go through them if it needs warranty work.

Please do let us know what the final resolution is.

Hope this helps.

[Demo West]

From your descriptions, it would appear that the setup done by the distributor was not to
factory specifications like it was when it shipped from the Fullerton factory. I wonder if they
also made a string gauge change, say from 10's to 11's or 12's? Does the bridge plate measure
1/8" from the body at ALL points? If they changed the fulcrum post height of either/or both
posts and did not set them to the same height, that might cause this problem.

Definitely take it to the selling dealer and let them determine how it should best be handled in
getting it resolved. You must go through them if it needs warranty work.

Please do let us know what the final resolution is.

Hope this helps.

Once again thank you for your support. It's really appreciated.

The guitar has been sent to the dealer today, so I can't really comment on the bridge plate measure. However, when I did an "eye ball check" the other day it did look like in the manual (I'm afraid we don't measure in inches over here, so looking at it is the best I can do).

The string gauge has definately not been changed.

Anyway, I'll report back once the problem has been fixed. In the meantime - and to shorten the time until I get my Legacy back - I treated myself to a second hand S-500 Tribute which I'll hopefully get within the next couple of days.

[desertrat07]

Anyway, I'll report back once the problem has been fixed. In the meantime - and to shorten the time until I get my Legacy back - I treated myself to a second hand S-500 Tribute which I'll hopefully get within the next couple of days.

That's the spirit!

But let us know how your issues with the Legacy get resolved. I had the exact same problem with my Comanche a few weeks ago - I had gone from 10's to 11's but started noticing that the strings seemed to be binding and my tuning stability was not too good. So I went back to 10's and the strings stayed flat when I pushed the whammy and sharp when I pulled back on it. I did about 3 or 4 complete setups, changed springs, etc...and could not get it right - it was really bad. I finally realized that my low E string was shot (I think the core of the string was broken or something) and it was throwing all of my other strings out. I replaced the low E and it's been much better since. Trems can be finicky, but I've found that the G&L DF is really quite stable once it finds its "happy place." Good luck.

[Demo West]

That's the spirit!

But let us know how your issues with the Legacy get resolved. I had the exact same problem with my Comanche a few weeks ago - I had gone from 10's to 11's but started noticing that the strings seemed to be binding and my tuning stability was not too good. So I went back to 10's and the strings stayed flat when I pushed the whammy and sharp when I pulled back on it. I did about 3 or 4 complete setups, changed springs, etc...and could not get it right - it was really bad. I finally realized that my low E string was shot (I think the core of the string was broken or something) and it was throwing all of my other strings out. I replaced the low E and it's been much better since. Trems can be finicky, but I've found that the G&L DF is really quite stable once it finds its "happy place." Good luck.

I did swap the original strings without any positive effect on the trem. So I hope that replacing the bridge plate (or whatever the dealer decides to do) is going to fix the issue. Nevertheless, this guitar is in terms of sound the best I ever had, and in the last 48 years of me being a musician I've had quite a few.

I'll be back once I can report any news.

[Boogie Bill]

There's a couple of other things you can do.

Will Ray mentioned the Big Bend's Nut Sauce, and I am a also a big fan of this product. I also use it on the nut slots, underneath the string trees and on the top of the saddles.

You can use a bit of Nut Sauce or a drop of Light Machine Oil (like 3-In-One) on the prongs of the vibrato claw where the springs attach; and a touch of Nut Sauce where the springs attach to the vibrato block.

Use a bit of spray Teflon lube (Tri-Flow) or WD-40 lightly on the coils of the springs. Apply it with a rag, and wipe up any excess. Keep the cover plate on the back--you want to minimize dust and dirt getting in there.

Don't forget the plumber's Teflon Tape trick on the pivot post screws if there is any play in the posts. (Check the with the strings off.)

Now, I find that it seems to take a little time for the knife edge of the vibrato plate to "seat" properly on the pivot posts. Some gentle quavering will usually fix this relatively quickly. Change the height of the bridge plate, and you may have a period of re-seating to endure. I use a quick shot of the Tri-Flow on the back edge of the pivot posts after a period of time when the bridge is seated; wipe up any excess.

Check carefully that the front lip of the bridge plate is not hitting the pickguard. I had this happen with an S-500 I bought and the guitar would not stay in tune. I'm sure this is why the previous owner sold the guitar--it would not--could not--come back in tune. The bridge action was not set up correctly--the posts too low and the saddles too high. Got it back in spec and has never caused me an ounce of trouble since. I have seen one other guitar with this same problem--also out of spec.

I'm going to assume that you are properly winding the strings on the split-post tuners. I measure the string two posts farther than the post I'm going to string. I make a SHARP 90-degree bend, then cut off the string about 5/8" beyond the bend. Insert the end into the hole, and make sure you wind it downward smoothly. These posts are really stable--the string at the bend actually locks itself into the shoulder of the post.

I have 17 G&Ls with the DF Vibrato, and I find them all to be really stable. I prefer three springs with my 9-42 sets, and rarely ever have to tune after the first set. I find that Fender Super Bullets seem to work best with the DF Vibrato. The bullet end works as advertised, and tuning seems to be more stable than ball-end strings. AND, since you never, ever want the double-wrapped part of the string at the ball-end to touch anywhere close to the apex of the saddle--the Bullet strings automatically insure that this can't happen. (BTW, I use D'Addario for all of my other guitars.)

Something isn't quite right with your guitar. I hope you can find the answer soon. I can assure you, set up properly, the DF Vibrato is very stable.

Good luck.

Bill

[Demo West]

Hi Bill,

Thank you so much for your comprehensive elaborate. The guitar has been sent back to the dealer for repair. I'msure he'll be able to fix the problem. If it ever happens again on this or another G&L, however, I'll do what you recommended.

Regards,

Joachim

[Demo West]

Today, after long last, I finally got my Legacy back from repair. The good news is that everything is now how it should be. The bad news is no-one knows exactly why.

In a first step, the DF Vibrato System has been replaced. Apparently that improved the tuning stability when pushing the whammy bar, but it did no good when pulling it. Then, the strings were changed and the nut holes had been somewhat widened. It did improve the situation but didn't fix the issue. Finally, the DF Vibrato System was swapped for a DFS Vibrato System and the standard tuners were replaced with locking tuners.

When I got the instrument back today everything was fine and I'm enjoying my new Legacy a great deal. Thanks to the German G&L distributor Musik Wein. They provided a service second to none.

Also thank you to everybody in this forum for bearing with me and for your support.

[Craig]

Today, after long last, I finally got my Legacy back from repair. The good news is that everything is now how it should be. The bad news is no-one knows exactly why.

In a first step, the DF Vibrato System has been replaced. Apparently that improved the tuning stability when pushing the whammy bar, but it did no good when pulling it. Then, the strings were changed and the nut holes had been somewhat widened. It did improve the situation but didn't fix the issue. Finally, the DF Vibrato System was swapped for a DFS Vibrato System and the standard tuners were replaced with locking tuners.

When I got the instrument back today everything was fine and I'm enjoying my new Legacy a great deal. Thanks to the German G&L distributor Musik Wein. They provided a service second to none.

Also thank you to everybody in this forum for bearing with me and for your support.

Glad to hear it's been resolved and getting a DFS Vibrato System upgrade is an extra bonus.