Thursday Lunch Report

[sickbutnottired]

First Off -I must apologize for dropping the ball yesterday. Thanks for jumping in for me, Ed! My trip on Tuesday turned into an overnighter. So I dropped into a the Sierra Trading Post in Cody WY to buy a clean shirt for Wednesday. I was informed in no uncertain terms that they closed in five (5) minutes. It was right then that I realized "Ah hah" it was Valentines day. So I really helped out my chances of customer service by letting the 19-year-old clerk that I wouldn't make her late for her date. So i dropped $85 on a new shirt (that's a good used pedal for you guys keeping score at home)--and in less than 5 minutes.

So now it's confession time, this is were the lunch report 'fail' occurred. I called home to let the wife know I decided to stay in Cody. As Ed noted yesterday, I am having a wedding in my home in, well, it's about time to figure out how many hours, and that's exactly what my wife let me know. And we all know who's happy when momma. ain't...

So after that I decided I needed to eat, having missed lunch. (I know missing lunch is no excuse for missing a LR, especially the next day's report, so stay with me). So I walked around all the restaurants downtown. Did I mention it's valentines day? So I decide the next most important thing is to not miss happy hour. So I go walk into this joint, of course it's called the Silver Dollar, 40% of the saloons in a 500 mile radius are called the silver dollar.

So I don't miss happy hour, and I had a great cheeseburger and fries. And I decide I outa find a room! So I decide not to drive and just stay at this quaint downtown property. I am so happy about this good decision making process that I sit down at the hotel bar and have a little celebration. Right next to a couple locals, one who was having quite a party, and another who wasn't late for her date--but her date was, um significantly late. Happily got a room. Crashed by 10, got up at 6. And realized, my quaint hotel has no working internet service. I guess the tech was coming from Salt Lake City, and should be there by Spring.

I finally got home about 10:30 last night, and drove over 800 miles. Which would be a couple pretty good days if I hadn't seen 4 customers.

So I had a good trip work wise, and probably saved myself one in a week or so. But did miss the LR, sorry.

And I have a wedding, in my house. So a little back story on that. I have a sister who is 11 years younger than me. We are very close, having a sister 11 years younger than you is kinda like what I imagine having Grandkids is like. I'd take her out and get her all sugared up and took her back to mom. Anyway we did a lot, skiing, back packing, stuff like that. She is a really good kid, and is so much more put together than I was at her age. Actually, she may be more put together than I am at MY age. She is a grad student, getting her Masters in Mechanical engineering. Her research is developing holistic remote avalanche prediction tools and methodologies.

She has been dating a former MSU football player and current helicopter mechanic for about 6 months or so. He is going to Afghanistan in about 15 days. (Well he out processes in 15 days, he will be in Texas for two months.)

And about 5 weeks ago, they decided to get married before he leaves. This was a big surprise to the family. You can talk amongst yourselves about that, but I have already had to talk about 100 people off about 100 cliff's over this, so I am out. She has a history of making good choices. And the reality is--you win some, you lose some, some get rained out no matter what you do.

So I need to host and cater a little get together for about 40 people, on Sunday. So I am a little stressed about that now. But I have a plan...Make a bunch of great messy food, and drink really good booze outa plastic cups.

Menu -
Roast beef sliders
-grilled onions and peppers
-chipotle aioli

Wings -
Jerk
Mango
Buffalo

Swiss Cheese fondu

A metric S**T ton of raw vegetables
Pickled vegetables

Smoked trout 'patte'

I have my ace party food wingman. My brother Winston, he is a roughneck by trade, and an excellent cook. He is also handy with a hammer, in a bar fight, if you need to move say 50 tons of rebar, and, is an excellent sound guy/roadie. He helped us a lot when we gigged in Bozeman in college.

Today we make all the sauces/rubs/marinades. I'll let you all know how it goes.

I thought the discussion on Tuesday was great. I didn't really intend a state of the blues discussion. But it is cool to turn something like that loose, and then not see the results for a couple days.

I am gonna weighin, in that topic later. (I say now)

Today, I want to talk about “ah hah” moments. “Ahh, It's valentines day, this clerk wouldn't care if I dropped dead right here in the store.”

Learning guitar as a mostly self guided tour has been a serious of ah hah"" moments over the years. The turning point in my playing came with this simple realization.

You could move the minor pentatonic scale up two strings and two frets and do it all again! I know that sounds obvious and silly, and had I taken lessons I am sure that would been kinda ipso facto, no big deal. But suddenly realized a workable way to think about the fretboard. And the simple clarity of it was so freeing...that's probably why I am here on this board.

Of course over the next 15 years I have moved all kinds of stuff over the fretboard. But still use that type of process as a big part of my mental image of my playing. Some of it's chords or 'shapes' but it all started with that realization.

Question 1
What where your playing 'ah hah' moments?

G&L Question
Did you have an ah hah G&L moment? My first G&L was an F-100 that was not new, but I was the first owner. I have told that story here, before and can again...later. I didn't totally appreciate it. But in college I bought an ASAT from a guy. When I played that guitar it was an 'ah hah' moment. I played that guitar and a Les Paul all through college. (And my F-100)

I figured a company could luck out once, but 2 for 2 was something to look into!

[louis cyfer]

sorry to hear about your sister. please give her my condolences as well as to her future husband. hopefully divorce is not so far away so they could both be congratulated.
i have come up with a gre4at system for valantine's day years ago. break up with the girl a week out, get back together a week later, they forgive the break up a lot easier than not doing something spectacular for valentine's day. save a bunch of money in the process. your method of having to be away on a work trip works as well. good job on that.

[JagInTheBag]

sorry to hear about your sister. please give her my condolences as well as to her future husband. hopefully divorce is not so far away so they could both be congratulated.
i have come up with a gre4at system for valantine's day years ago. break up with the girl a week out, get back together a week later, they forgive the break up a lot easier than not doing something spectacular for valentine's day. save a bunch of money in the process.

Yow!

[sickbutnottired]

sorry to hear about your sister. please give her my condolences as well as to her future husband. hopefully divorce is not so far away so they could both be congratulated.
i have come up with a gre4at system for valantine's day years ago. break up with the girl a week out, get back together a week later, they forgive the break up a lot easier than not doing something spectacular for valentine's day. save a bunch of money in the process. your method of having to be away on a work trip works as well. good job on that.

I am sure my sister will be most pleased to get your note!

My work trip excuse is kind a work in progress, but you have a heart of stone, man.

[darwinohm]

Jeremy, interesting story on your Montana travels. Work is not always laid out as planned! That on top of Valentines day and getting ready for a weeding will especially make the aftermath of everything tranquil. The best to your sister and her new husband. At least you did not have bad weather or car trouble to deal with.

I have had a couple of wow moments in my life. One was when arriving at a gig to discover the neck had let loose on my old Framus bass in the heat. I thought the case opened to easily.

My G&L moment would be the SC-2 that I purchased last fall. Just seeing it was "wow" and then listening to it was even better. Hang in there as you have one more day and then the big weekend. I will be traveling to a gig in northern Minnesota tomorrow so will be checking on your LR after I get back. Maybe you can sneak a wedding report in sometime next week. Thanks for the entertainment this week!-- Darwin

[blargfromouterspace]

I like your approach to the catering, sounds like my kind of party. Best wishes to your sister and her future hubby. Here's hoping for his safe return from Afghanistan.

I hoping for a playing "a-ha!" moment any day now. I've been stuck in a rut for months.

Louis - Hope the next one is better than the last one. Sounds like you got a real doing-over.

[gitman001]

Hey Jeremy,

Glad your back safe from the road trip, and good luck with everything this weekend.... I am sure it will go off without a hitch... Wait there is someone getting hitched you know what i mean.

A-HA

Mine came when i was at school - When i learned what the intervals really meant (3rds, 5ths etc ) and how they spelled out the scales, modes, chords, etc. I had been way to focused on the letters of the keys rather than knowing it was in fact the intervals that ended up producing the letters. That was big for me. Still is. It made life on the fretboard so much easier.

Scott

[yowhatsshakin]

Good luck with your trials and tribulations Jeremy! It's a small miracle you produce LR's at all!

Question 1
What where your playing 'ah hah' moments?

Main one would be the first time I tuned my first ASAT Classic to open-G, but 'Love You Live' on the player and figured out how incredibly easy it was to play certain Keef riffs. What finally drove it home was trying to play along 'Can You Here me Knockin'" ('Sticky Fingers') and realize that a riff that had always eluded me in some way was dare I say completely trivial in that tuning.

G&L Question
Did you have an ah hah G&L moment?

Beyond that a G&L was involved in the aforementioned 'aha'-erlebnis, I would say the first orange G&L ASAT Classic I played at the Zobrist was the one that 'drove' me away from Les Pauls. Everything felt comfortable on that one, and the Butterscotch one I purchased about half a year letter felt exactly the same. I had not had similar experience with the mainly '80's Fenders I had been trying out.

- Jos

[sickbutnottired]

Good luck with your trials and tribulations Jeremy! It's a small miracle you produce LR's at all!
[

That's the problem, sometimes I don't! It's all good from myside. I was planning on taking this week mostly off when I agreed to do the lunch reports, but that all changed monday. But I live the life I love and love the life a I live, and it will all work out.

Thanks for sharing your moments. Open tuning is great, I don't use it much myself. But I love Mr. Keef Riffhard. It's not how hard your working, it's how good your sounding!

Darwin - travel safe to the gig, then knock 'em dead. Is Ginny (I hope I spelled that right) coming to chaparone? Or at least count guitars and basses in and out?

Jamie, I know you have had a few 'ah hah' moments. During a serious rut I decided to take up harmonica. I still can't play the harp; but it did scare me back to the guit-fiddle! I need to track down that thread about your new special.

Scott, your moment is huge and very well explained. Say, your not a part-time guitar teacher are you? The perfect intervals are, well, perfectly great; but it's all the other's that make like grand!

[louis cyfer]

I like your approach to the catering, sounds like my kind of party. Best wishes to your sister and her future hubby. Here's hoping for his safe return from Afghanistan.

I hoping for a playing "a-ha!" moment any day now. I've been stuck in a rut for months.

Louis - Hope the next one is better than the last one. Sounds like you got a real doing-over.

last one what? gf? i figured what is the point of buying if you can lease, and why lease one before you test drove them all

[Muleya]

I have lots of A-Ha moments..."Take Me On" by A-Ha is the first song on my iPod, and if I hit the "Play" button from the Main Menu, which I seem to do accidentally all too frequently, it starts playing. In fact, I'm getting sick of hearing it! I've been tempted to take it off my iPod, but then I'm sure I'd start to detest the next song, so I've just left it!!

[KenC]

Jeremy,

Best of luck to your sister and future brother-in-law. My wife and I rushed our wedding before I headed to the Persian Gulf 21 years ago. By marrying right before a deployment, your sister will be earning lifetime bragging rights in the military spouses club.

Sorry I haven't been active this week, but I was also traveling without internet access. My trip was in the Catskill Mountains in New York, where there doesn't seem to be much anymore except abandoned buildings. The town I was primarily in had four open businesses and about forty closed ones. I could have used the distraction of Lunch Reports in the evenings!

My guitar Aha moment was working through Mickey Baker's jazz guitar book for the umpteenth time and finally realizing that I didn't need to play full chords to outline a harmony, and that 2-3 notes worked better in most cases. That was also when I realized I could play a string of chords just as easily as a line of single notes. My bass Aha moment was playing along with The Who's "We Won't Get Fooled Again" and realizing how much could be done by simply playing a scale instead of chasing the guitar player's chords.

I think my G&L Aha moment was buying my ASAT Classic, which was the first instrument I ever payed more than $500 for and also the first guitar I ever had (after thirty years of playing) that was truly easy to play. I already had an SB-1 as my back-up bass, and loved it, but the ASAT Classic was my first electric guitar that didn't have obvious limitations.

Ken

[zapcosongs]

Oh Louis. Why are you giving relationship advice when your experience is with chattels? -ed

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

Jeremy,

You can tell a good story.

The little sister is going to have a career problem with a husband in the military. Acquiring an education enhances your awareness of life and improves your opportunities whether you end up using it in a career or not. The husband will not likely see combat being the prized commodity, helicopter mechanic. Unless the base is attacked he is going to be relatively safe when he is deployed. Military life is a roller coaster for many people. It takes a special breed to maintain a healthy marriage. Military marriage does not tolerate insecurities well.

Ah ha moment learning guitar: At a very early stage way back when I first started playing guitar an ah ha moment for me was when I discovered how useful a wah wah pedal was. I had rented one and it really helped me in several ways flexing the pedal as I hit notes. It assisted me with understanding rhythm, timing, coordination, etc. I used it like people often use a metronome to work on these areas. The direct alteration of the sound helped add dimension to it whereas a metronome is clearly separate from the guitar tone.

G&L ah ha: It was a great surprise when I realized that the MFD pickups enabled me to get much more out of fretboard touch.

[zapcosongs]

I just had an "ah-ha" moment in learning that Wah-Wah pedals could be rented.

Please send me a PM if you (or anybody else) would like to rent mine. (King Vox, Sepulveda (sp?), CA), mid-1970's. {and if you ask me if it has the "stack of dimes" transducer" I will tell you honestly that I don't know nor do I care} - ed

[repoman]

SickButNotTired,
Sounds like you've got a lot on your plate this week. If you're not tired after all this then you are certainly a better man than me!

I've had a few minor a-ha moments: learning scales, realizing that half the hit songs are based on 12 bar blues patterns, etc.

I haven't been around much the past couple weeks but wanted to at least extend my best wishes to you and the family for a successful weekend and a successful return for the groom. Sounds like a good party with lots of good food. Enjoy!

Jeff

[zapcosongs]

Very well said, Jeff. - ed

[Boogie Bill]

Congrats on the wedding. I hope it will be one of those perfect moments they will never forget. You're a good man.

I have done some impromtu catering over the years. I was the social commitee chair for a big insurance company in Seattle for a year. It was really a challenge, but it was a wonderful experience. Miss Leslie is on the local city council, and each time the city has a party, like for a retirement or other special event, I seem to get volunteered. It is stressful, but we've done well and it's nice hearing the compliments. I'm stuck with it now though--I'd have to really screw up for them to boot me, and I have too much pride!

Please send out best wishes to your sister and her fiance; and please thank him for his service to his country. We'll pray for his safe, speedy return.


==================

I have a couple of "AHA!" moments. I think one of the big ones had to do with my pre-G&L Music Man Sabre II, realizing that, "Hey, this could work for me!" over the space of 45 minutes. Those guitars (I have two) paid the rent for a few years.


==================

While playing that first Sabre in a club a couple of years after buying it, I met a beautiful young woman who deeply influenced my career--from a mental and spiritual point of view. She was the administrator of the local Religious Science church, and I attended for a few years. The big important "AHA!" to me was that she taught me how to do positive affirmations. Over the years, I have learned to recite them effortlessly, each time I play. For example, I tell myself that my voice is good and strong; that I will play the right notes; that if I make a mistake no one will notice; that I will be funny; that my tone will be great; that my playing and singing will be great; that the audience will love and appreciate me; that I won't be nervous; that if I have an equipment problem I will be able to solve it quickly. For thirty years I have practiced this little ritual before each gig, and it has worked wonders for me. Ilga became a wonderful lover and a good friend; but moreover, she gave me a key to performance that I am very greatful for. My confidence has soared, and when I get on stage--I KNOW I'm going to be good. It has been a priceless gift.


================

I've known about G&L from the very start. Another guy I knew bought an F-100 when they came out, but we both agreed that the Sabre was the better guitar. I followed G&L of course, but the more I played that Sabre, the more I loved it and the better it sounded, and the more I played it, and so on. A wonderful space to be in, being really really happy with your gear, feeling the love and getting it back ten-fold. But when my playing situation changed, I knew that I would need a different guitar. I wanted a Fender American '62 Vintage Strat that would play and sound like the 1960 Strat I'd had to sell after my divorce. The salesman showed me a Legacy--the "AHA! I can use this!" happened again, but this time only took about 20 minutes.


=================

And of course, you can read about my, "AHA!" moment with my Comanche in my "Comanches For Dummies" post. Discovering how to use that guitar was a process that used a lot of the skills I learned from Ilga. My experience from learning other guitars like the Sabre and the Legacy was also very helpful. I decided that I WOULD NOT FAIL with the Comanche--that I would not let it defeat me; and I have been very happy with the tones I get from that guitar.

Good job on the LR, sorry I haven't been able to participate more over the last few weeks. Tax season!

Bill

[louis cyfer]

Oh Louis. Why are you giving relationship advice when your experience is with chattels? -ed

ed, i am not giving relationship advice at all. i just think that marriage is a weird institution. it used to be a business transaction. for most of history. loving the other person was not a requirement, or even expected. since people did not love each other, divorce was not very common, as there was not a big change of not being in love anymore. if it is done just as a business institution, then it is fine. the problem is that a very recent ideal regarding marriage is that it is a romantic institution. that is where the trouble begins. in that case, getting married is almost always too early. if after 10 years, or 15, people are still together and in love with each other, getting married is not too late. if they got a divorce, they got married too early. it takes a long time to get to know someone well enough to know that you want to and can spend the rest of your life with them. staying in love for that long is the exception. humans as a species are not monogamous by nature, rarely do they love only one person in their life and for the duration of it. marriage only makes it difficult to part ways if the relationship is no longer desired. this idea of forcing staying together is silly. also if getting married is to change anything in the relationship, which is often expected by one or both parties, it is an unknown change, and was the relationship not everything they wanted it to be before the marriage? why get married then? if the relationship is everything they want it to be already, and no change is expected from getting married, what is the point then? if it is working, why mess with it? it is certainly possible to stay together and in love without being married, that piece of paper is not what holds a relationship together. if the marriage ends in divorce, a very high possibility today, the term for the institution should be dilution of net worth, it expresses it better than marriage. also getting married before the age 35, people change as they age, they change significantly in personality. to know that you will care fore the other person after those changes is impossible to know, as those changes can not be predicted. another reason marriage fails so often.

as far as calling my gf's chattels, i completely disagree. i had three 4 year relationships in the past 9 years. i have had many in my life. i do care about them very much, but finding one who lacks qualities that i can not tolerate is difficult, and that is a deal breaker to me.
most people getting married do not even know what it means to the other person to be married, how they see it, what they project into it. they usually assume the other person shares their own views on that. that very rarely happens. they find that out when trouble begins and start seeing a marriage counselor. this is from the counselors i work with, a very common problem they see.

[zapcosongs]

Louis - Even if everything you say is true, offering a friend condolences upon his sister's betrothal seems to me to be inappropriate (and I know inappropriate!) - ed

[louis cyfer]

Louis - Even if everything you say is true, offering a friend condolences upon his sister's betrothal seems to me to be inappropriate (and I know inappropriate!) - ed

i offer condolences to everyone getting married. always. also tiredofbeingsick has enough sense of humor to get that.

[kakerlak]

SBnT, as long as your Lil' Sis is old/mature enough to "know" herself fairly well, she's to be congratulated and supported for making a decision that makes her happy. In the end, that's all that marriage is: a happy thing to do and be. You say your sister has made intelligent and responsible decisions thus far in life, so she's due a degree of trust with this one.

There are a lot of people that make foolish decision with marriage and there are just as many people that make foolish decisions in other matters. I married a girl I'd known since I was a kid. I thought she was just about the coolest, funniest, smartest thing in the world when I first met her, but she lived in a different state, was a year older and I thought I was a dorky little kid in comparison to this older, cooler girl. I was happy she liked to talk to me and thought it naive to consider she'd have any interest in committing herself to a "kid" that didn't even live in town. After high school I occupied most of my time with shiftless, pointless and generally wasteful behavior, but, in the process came to know who I was, what made me tick and what made me happy.

I finally reached a point (in my early adulthood) that I was smart enough to realize Oklahoma wasn't really that far from Texas and that it was extraordinarily unlikely I'd ever come across another person with whom I had a better connection. I had a degree of confidence and a little bit of reckless abandon and moved my ass up here within a couple weeks of catching back up with her. It is the single smartest thing I've ever done. I am pretty far off the beaten path, personality wise, but her personality matched mine same step-for-step. There are times we say very little to each other b/c our views, reactions and overall thought processes are so alike that all the words that would be are implicit.

I married her a little over 4 years ago and have been with her nearly 9. She will make me smile every day of my life and it just seemed reasonable at a certain point to go ahead and get married. We wouldn't be any more or less together today had we chosen not to, but it was a fun and happy occasion, and one that was satisfying for our families to witness, too.

I hope that your sister enjoys a similarly joyous occasion and it sounds like you're well on your way to doing your part to make that happen. Congratulations to the new Mrs. and Mr. and to you, too, buddy!

[JagInTheBag]

Louis, your words reveal more about your person than they do any great truths about marriage. Your judgements about marriage are yours, and thus you are entitled to them. Extending your politics about marriage in condolences to this news is sideways, pure shadow.

As for the current state of the institution of marriage in our culture, that speaks more to us as a people than anything else. It is hard for any relationship to succeed if you treat the other person like a happiness vending machine. And no, you aren't magically formed by 35, your done when you're dead.

My marriage, and my relationship- the same one I've had for 21 years, since I was 17, is a dynamic relationship- a mutual commitment to help one another as we each change and grow as people through all stages of our lives. We are each stronger and better people for it. The love part is trusting that if I focus on providing her what she needs to thrive, grow, and fulfill her life's purpose, that she will do the same for me. The affection, the love, the bonds grow stronger as a natural result of the endeavor. It is important to do so with brave abandon, and earnest sincerity. Anything less is a crassly calculated quid-pro-quo.

As you say

"i do care about them very much, but finding one who lacks qualities that i can not tolerate is difficult, and that is a deal breaker to me."

If the focus of your marriage is what you want, need, "deserve" from the other, of course it doomed to fail. Each person looks only selfishly toward the other, what they lack, where they fall short, or worse- as a perpetrator of denying them happiness until they get theirs. Of course there is no love where their is no trust or genuine devotion and marriage seems a sham.

Sadly Louis, I believe you when you joke

"last one what? gf? i figured what is the point of buying if you can lease, and why lease one before you test drove them all"

Which I read as steal as much as you can while giving as little as possible in return- the women who experience this are equally capable of such deception. I refer you to Springsteen's "Secret Garden"- truly a sad state of affairs:

[youtube]WiLosOQP400[/youtube]

[kakerlak]

Well put, JitB.

There is nothing, nothing in the world that makes me happier than seeing my wife happy. It is also grounding and rejuvenating to have somebody to come home to every day that you connect with. There is much mutual benefit to be had from sharing all life's experiences with someone in whom you have complete trust and total affection. A person is basically the sum of their experiences and actions; when they're shared, in a way there's a 3rd entity, "us," that's greater than the individual value of either. Spending all those years with the same person builds a greater sum than is possible to obtain otherwise. Of course, absolutely everything is contingent upon those persons being the "right" ones for each other, but, for those lucky enough to find each other, marriage and/or years-long monogamy is unparalleled in its ability to enrich.

[JagInTheBag]

Well put, JitB.

There is nothing, nothing in the world that makes me happier than seeing my wife happy. It is also grounding and rejuvenating to have somebody to come home to every day that you connect with. There is much mutual benefit to be had from sharing all life's experiences with someone in whom you have complete trust and total affection. A person is basically the sum of their experiences and actions; when they're shared, in a way there's a 3rd entity, "us," that's greater than the individual value of either. Spending all those years with the same person builds a greater sum than is possible to obtain otherwise. Of course, absolutely everything is contingent upon those persons being the "right" ones for each other, but, for those lucky enough to find each other, marriage and/or years-long monogamy is unparalleled in its ability to enrich.

+1

[louis cyfer]

Louis, your words reveal more about your person than they do any great truths about marriage. Your judgements about marriage are yours, and thus you are entitled to them. Extending your politics about marriage in condolences to this news is sideways, pure shadow.

As for the current state of the institution of marriage in our culture, that speaks more to us as a people than anything else. It is hard for any relationship to succeed if you treat the other person like a happiness vending machine. And no, you aren't magically formed by 35, your done when you're dead.

of course you are not magically formed by some age, but the changes in people's think that take place from 18 to 35 are usually more drastic, and significant, and people are a lot less experienced and wise at 18 to make lifelong decisions. i am not saying it can not work, i amm saying it is less likely.

My marriage, and my relationship- the same one I've had for 21 years, since I was 17, is a dynamic relationship- a mutual commitment to help one another as we each change and grow as people through all stages of our lives. We are each stronger and better people for it. The love part is trusting that if I focus on providing her what she needs to thrive, grow, and fulfill her life's purpose, that she will do the same for me. The affection, the love, the bonds grow stronger as a natural result of the endeavor. It is important to do so with brave abandon, and earnest sincerity. Anything less is a crassly calculated quid-pro-quo.

all this has to do with your relationship, having the piece of paper that says you are married is not what makes it work, it is the 2 of you.

As you say

"i do care about them very much, but finding one who lacks qualities that i can not tolerate is difficult, and that is a deal breaker to me."

If the focus of your marriage is what you want, need, "deserve" from the other, of course it doomed to fail. Each person looks only selfishly toward the other, what they lack, where they fall short, or worse- as a perpetrator of denying them happiness until they get theirs. Of course there is no love where their is no trust or genuine devotion and marriage seems a sham.

i totally agree, happiness comes from within, expecting it from another is a burden on the other that is too much to bear. and irrational as well. you partner may have qualities that you dislike, that you can accept, qualities that you can put up with, but when it is something that you can not tolerate, that is a deal breaker. one such thing for me is the lack of conflict resolution skills. the ability to resolve conflict and resolve it in a civil manner is paramount for me to the success of a relationship. there are others as well. like a strong love and compassion for animals, and the ability to see them and treat them as part of the family. that is not negotiable for me.

Sadly Louis, I believe you when you joke

"last one what? gf? i figured what is the point of buying if you can lease, and why lease one before you test drove them all"

Which I read as steal as much as you can while giving as little as possible in return- the women who experience this are equally capable of such deception. I refer you to Springsteen's "Secret Garden"- truly a sad state of affairs:

here, you couldn't be any more wrong. it is not about sex at all, but sex is not something that you give or take, that is an experience to be shared by the parties, and the only concern of each should be pleasing the other. there is no deception involved either. test driving means to see if another person is an suitable partner, and if i am a suitable partner to them. sexual compatibility is an important part, and it is possible to determine long before personality compatibility can be ascertained.

[louis cyfer]

Well put, JitB.

There is nothing, nothing in the world that makes me happier than seeing my wife happy. It is also grounding and rejuvenating to have somebody to come home to every day that you connect with. There is much mutual benefit to be had from sharing all life's experiences with someone in whom you have complete trust and total affection. A person is basically the sum of their experiences and actions; when they're shared, in a way there's a 3rd entity, "us," that's greater than the individual value of either. Spending all those years with the same person builds a greater sum than is possible to obtain otherwise. Of course, absolutely everything is contingent upon those persons being the "right" ones for each other, but, for those lucky enough to find each other, marriage and/or years-long monogamy is unparalleled in its ability to enrich.

i totally agree with that. for those lucky enough. of course this has nothing to do with being married, it has to do with being together. certainly possible without a piece of paper. being able to be happy with one's self before even entering such relationship is essential in my opinion. too many people seek happiness from the relationship, instead of the enhanced experience of sharing like you say, which is what it should be about. very well put.

[sickbutnottired]

This is a great discussion, in my opinion. I certainly took no offense, and find it funny in a strange kinda hmmm...what do I say way. And subsequently a lot of people have shared things that we would not have without the comment.

I disagree with Louis that a marriage is just a relationship + legal document. The commitment is no small thing. I don't think it has to be in a church or courthouse, but I do feel that the commitment in front of family and friends is a powerful thing. Invaluable to the individuals, and the couple collectively. Sometimes that commitment is all you have as a couple. But when you fight it off, and make it right you are both better off. And you're are better off collectively as well. The opposite is also true, sometimes everything you touch as a couple turns to gold--and during those times the commitment allows to enjoy the prosperity (be it material or spiritual or whatever) to the fullest!

I do agree with Louis, though, that a relationship + legal document is not necessarily a better relationship. A relationship + commitment to do the best you can by someone all day, everyday is really something can grow into something amazing.

[JagInTheBag]

I disagree with Louis that a marriage is just a relationship + legal document. The commitment is no small thing. I don't think it has to be in a church or courthouse, but I do feel that the commitment in front of family and friends is a powerful thing. Invaluable to the individuals, and the couple collectively. Sometimes that commitment is all you have as a couple. But when you fight it off, and make it right you are both better off. And you're are better off collectively as well. The opposite is also true, sometimes everything you touch as a couple turns to gold--and during those times the commitment allows to enjoy the prosperity (be it material or spiritual or whatever) to the fullest!

I do agree with Louis, though, that a relationship + legal document is not necessarily a better relationship. A relationship + commitment to do the best you can by someone all day, everyday is really something can grow into something amazing.

I also agree that a relationship + legal document is no sound basis for a realtionship, and in my mind is a poor reductionist definition of marriage. Politics and civil law have a way of doing that to many of our social instituions.

It is not my objective to change anyones mind about the value of marriage, but to ask to respect those who value it and perhaps shed some light on the nature of what those entering marriage are vested in. It certainly involves Relationship + Commitment. My me and my wife is was a in a church- which in the purest definition means amongst our community of people.

We declared our committment to be lifelong allies for and to one another infront of those people. We also asked them to hold accountable to our vows, in our devotion to one another, and support during the ebb and flow of life. Marriage is building a containter of trust, with eachother and with that community. The other dimension of marriage, in my experience the most important one, is the spiritual. For us, it isn't just myself and my wife as the sum of the two as "us". It is G-d, her and I- that is "us". I agree with sickbutnottired's conclusion, it has been amazing.

[Lefty]

SBnT, as long as your Lil' Sis is old/mature enough to "know" herself fairly well, she's to be congratulated and supported for making a decision that makes her happy. In the end, that's all that marriage is: a happy thing to do and be. You say your sister has made intelligent and responsible decisions thus far in life, so she's due a degree of trust with this one.

There are a lot of people that make foolish decision with marriage and there are just as many people that make foolish decisions in other matters. I married a girl I'd known since I was a kid. I thought she was just about the coolest, funniest, smartest thing in the world when I first met her, but she lived in a different state, was a year older and I thought I was a dorky little kid in comparison to this older, cooler girl. I was happy she liked to talk to me and thought it naive to consider she'd have any interest in committing herself to a "kid" that didn't even live in town. After high school I occupied most of my time with shiftless, pointless and generally wasteful behavior, but, in the process came to know who I was, what made me tick and what made me happy.

I finally reached a point (in my early adulthood) that I was smart enough to realize Oklahoma wasn't really that far from Texas and that it was extraordinarily unlikely I'd ever come across another person with whom I had a better connection. I had a degree of confidence and a little bit of reckless abandon and moved my ass up here within a couple weeks of catching back up with her. It is the single smartest thing I've ever done. I am pretty far off the beaten path, personality wise, but her personality matched mine same step-for-step. There are times we say very little to each other b/c our views, reactions and overall thought processes are so alike that all the words that would be are implicit.

I married her a little over 4 years ago and have been with her nearly 9. She will make me smile every day of my life and it just seemed reasonable at a certain point to go ahead and get married. We wouldn't be any more or less together today had we chosen not to, but it was a fun and happy occasion, and one that was satisfying for our families to witness, too.

I hope that your sister enjoys a similarly joyous occasion and it sounds like you're well on your way to doing your part to make that happen. Congratulations to the new Mrs. and Mr. and to you, too, buddy!

Very well said.. +1