To Bloom Tk.2

[sirmyghin]

Took this down for now, have to fix some lazy time keeping on my part with respect to the bass. Might get it fixed before I go to work tuesday, but I don't want to rush it.

[louis cyfer]

the basic idea is good, but the timing is really bad. there is big clashes, the bass is not staying with the drums, and there are some fills that are just way off. separating the solo and rhythm this much is really distracting as well. 100% left and right doesn't often work well. the individual tones are good, the rhythm track with just drums and the rhythm guitar is quite nice, the solo has some very strange note choices that make no sense in the tonality of the piece. there is a tonal center btw.

[sirmyghin]

Thanks for the critique Louis, I had the pans less extreme but decided to widen them for various reasons. As far as bass + drums together, that really wasn't the idea here, I don't play bass as a second rhythm instrument, except occasionally. Mostly I play off the fact drums and bass are not required to be locked together. I don't do that rock music trope, and opt to play the instrument musically. The rhythmic stability occurs in the rhythm guitar, and the drummer (which he may have flubbed slightly once or twice but was right on the beat or accent, except for a brief soire during the 9+7 portion of the tune, fully endorsed by me).

As far as no tonal center, we are working off a non functional chord progression, lacking both authentic, or even half cadences, hence saying no tonal center. I also flit between major and minor voicings to facilitate that. Enharmonically the piece occurs in C, the 'solo' is in C lydian, modally, to take advantage of the E chord in the mix, and set it 'out' a little further. While most of it is built around C, you could almost tote G as a tonal center due to the forced stop point but even there, it is not satisfying. I suppose you could count the move from 3rd to root, if you want to think of it in C, as I tended to, as a cadence, but that is a very weak one at that.

Once again, thank you for listening, I will consider your mixing advice but everyone you talk to does these things differently, and my much closer pans were in turn criticized. Can't keep everyone happy apparently.

Cheers

[louis cyfer]

i didn't express myself well. what i meant by the bass not staying with the drums, is that timing of the bass was way off. i don't mean that the bass has needs to lock with the drum, but the staying with the timing of the whole song. the intro's timing is off too until the drum comes in, but that is only slight. it's a technical issue on the playing, but easily correctable. the bass runs in there is where the timing becomes a big problem. it sounds like it is part of a different song.

[sirmyghin]

I'll look into that a bit closer then, I didn't catch it, but I'll listen harder. You have me thinking about the pans a touch again too, not the severity but throwing the rhythm guitar down the center and nothing having the bass and leads on the same side, might 'declutter' a touch. I record the bass through a different system than the guitar (DI vs capture) sure latency games could be getting the best of it and you may have a better ear for short spans than me.

I thought maybe you were referring to the part around 4 minutes, where the drums are playing 4/4 against 9+7 (they come to 9+7 the second time, leads never do). Bass is by far the easier part to correct either way. I am hearing a smidge late there now though anyway with the bass.

I do appreciate the feedback, I am not trying to be overly defensive, just giving the full thought pattern behind the method, which I leave out at first to prevent influencing conclusions.

[louis cyfer]

try putting the rhythm 100% left and 60% right and the lead a 100% right and 70% left. just a starting point. you'll still have the same relative placement, but a better coherence.

[sirmyghin]

I'll give that a shot, an interesting idea I had never heard of (need to do more reading on this recording stuff instead of stumbling in the dark. The bass needs a full fledged do over though, a shame as I was missing the drummers anticipation at times, and rushing to catch it others. Not very level indeed, but my fingers are getting in better shape again (I've neglect to practice much bass the last few years). Hopefully I can get it done before I go back to work for 3 weeks. My counting has suffered over the years, what with not playing in big band, and not playing little except rush (teenage bass regiment). Amazing what lack of use does to us. Even kills our ears along with familiarity, I had to solo the bass and drums to catch what you heard through a mix.

You sir, have good ears.

[louis cyfer]

having a degree in recording arts will get your ears going, as you have to recreate mixing boards from a single listening including all instruments, pans and effects and levels. then you are graded on the it, and only the best result gets an A.

[sirmyghin]

having a degree in recording arts will get your ears going, as you have to recreate mixing boards from a single listening including all instruments, pans and effects and levels. then you are graded on the it, and only the best result gets an A.

Sounds like a fun time, that is the curve an A should be. I need to get some reading material on this recording nonsense, and probably some better equipment down the line (that part is easy but won't help a damn unless I learn something along the way). Audio professionals are just that, hopefully with more under my belt I'll be able to come somewhere close . Maybe when I acquire a vehicle I will have access to some courses in a nearby city to boot, but after 7 years of university I don't think I will ever enroll in anything full time again. A bit tired of it, and quite jaded after being in academia.

I am probably going to have to start from ground zero on this one, as after a few attempts, nothing is coming out clean so I decided to take a bit closer look at the drum track itself. He anticipates, but occasionally not consistantly. So if you listen to him alone, you might not catch it, but with all the difficulties I am having following it, a different story. I figure if I clean that up a touch first, I will have a much less retarded time thereafter. Fortunately we worked in MIDI (V drums into superior drummer), so this task isn't too difficult to visualize. It is however a pain in the ass.

Recording is damned good playing practice either way.