Tuesday, 01/31/12: Lunch Report

[kakerlak]

One down, four to go…

First of all, thanks for all the replies to yesterday’s post. I like the opportunity to get a fuller picture of the folks I talk to and always love seeing your G&Ls!

Heading home soon for lunch, which will be the Hot Pockets I passed over yesterday… (I should really start making up fantasy lunches. – my diet is so boring)

Moving to guitars, I was thinking last night about all the wonderful instruments Leo created, dating back to the 50s (and not even considering the amps) and continuing through G&L. It occurred to me that probably the majority of players/collectors are more-or-less purists, in that, once created, a model is viewed to be in its most desirable form either as introduced or after only a couple configuration changes. E.g. ’54-’64 Strats, ’50-53 Teles, ’54-59 Les Pauls, etc. There’s a lot of the “why mess with success” sentiment out there in considering changes like big headstocks, cast bridges, different headstock angles, even frivolous stuff like how tall the binding is in a cutaway, what sort of switch tip and string trees are in place, whether the last three inlays are all the same width, etc. It’s what’s sparked the re-issue phenomenon and why vintage prices for some of those are 100+ times their value in utility.

Leo seemed to eschew this sort of thought altogether. In so doing, he gave us the ASAT, Comanche, S-500, SC models, stuff like the Cavlier and F-100 (not to mention MusicMan guitars and basses), etc. The funny thing is, at each of those stops in the road, the same “original is better” sentiment sprouts up.

I’m guilty myself: I like the old 3-string string trees, the 3 bolt, microtilt neck, the old square-ended S-500 pickups, metal pickguards, the not-quite-a-strat outline of the older S-500s, maple bodies, etc. At the same time, I really dig some of the new stuff, like hollow bodies, extra neck, wood and finish options, models like the Bluesboy, etc.

I think it’s safe to say that, were he alive, Leo would still be tinkering. Since he’s not, though, any changes BBE makes will always face the scrutiny of “messing with success” and “if it ain’t broke…,” but I’m not sure that’s fair, either to the company itself or to Leo’s philosophy. What do you guys think?

Wow, that’s more than I meant to type… Moving away from guitars now (sort of), but sticking with thoughts of heritage:
My father was a professional drummer in the ‘60s and ‘70s in a band called Space Opera. Although he relegated his drums to the attic before I was old enough to be aware of them, he always conveyed a notion that music was important and I think it rubbed off on me in my formative years. In my early teens, I ended up taking guitar lessons from one of his old band’s members. Sometimes I wonder where I’d be musically and what path my playing would have taken without that influence (or if I’d have been interested in music at all otherwise).

I’m probably somewhere near the middle of the road as far as musical heritage goes (if you take a range from the totally musically disinterested family to the close-knit Appalachian family stereotype where even great grandma picks a little).

So how’s about you… Do you come from a musical family? If so, what kind and who played? If not, what was your journey to guitar like? And, for those of you with kids, are you making an conscious effort to pass on the music bug?

[Kit]

I missed yesterday's LR but I guess it is never too late.

I have a hard time explaining what I do for a living to people who are not in the electronics industry. I am a logic and software engineer that works on a product that allow logic design engineers debug their design in a chip so they can be more certain that their final design will work when it eventually goes into production. I started some 35 years ago as a logic design engineer on microprocessors, and over the decades helped start a couple of companies, got into the Electronic Design Automation (EDA) field and software development, and ended up where I am now.

My first G&L is an LE due to that I stumbled onto the original version of this discussion board back in 1998. Now I have 3 G&L instruments.







Innovation is definitely good, except for the vintage seekers. I have a 1975 Stratocaster that I bought back then from a guy who had the guitar for 3 weeks before he decided to sell it because he realized that he really had no intention to learn how to play it. This being the mid-1970s, during the short period he had the guitar he had painted the pickguard with sparkle orange spray paint. I could not get the paint off so I replaced it with a chrome pickguard. Several years later the chrome pickguard was tarnished so I looked to replace it with a 3-ply white one. Not knowing all the subtleties of replacement parts I got one from Carvin. When I put it on I found that one screw hole (to the left of the middle pickup) does not line up, but I put the pickguard on anyway. Now decades later I realized that that minor ignorance likely caused my guitar to be worth less than it otherwise would, since everything else on the guitar is original. Luckily I have not gotten into a position that I have to sell the Strat.

I came from a family where neither my Mom nor my Dad played any musical instruments, but they did like to listen to music on the radio. They also sent a couple of my sisters for piano lessons, and bought my brother and me guitars to learn. For that I am very grateful since music is my most gratifying hobby. My two teenaged kids have no interest in my guitars. For all my wishing thinking neither of them looks likely to ever learn to play.

Kit

[kakerlak]

Hey Kit!

It always amused me to see the number of people with high tech jobs around here. Just further's the notion that G&Ls are an engineer's guitar, LOL.

Cool to see one of the LEs. I wonder how many are still with their original owners.

I like your redneck SC-3, too

[JagInTheBag]

Lunch was as Cadbury Crunchie bar dipped in peanut butter.

G&L Topic: Yes Leo would still be tinkering, innovate or die. I would hope that BBE would compliment that innovative spirit with a marketing savvy Leo lacked. More than a few of his inventions failed because not enough people even knew about them. Sadly, I see them leaning on his old ideas and watering them down for their production purposes.

My family was not musical, but my wife's is. She was playing concert piano to paying audiences by age 7. I've had work really work to develop my ear, my natural sense of rhythm is confided to Moderato or below. The wife and kids by contrast are talented, each have perfect pitch and a good sense of internal rhythm- playing irritating games like "How does that movie score go?", sitting down at the piano and playing it through after hearing it once.

We did see learning to play as important, the spouse burned out by age 11 walked away from it and regrets it everyday.

Today, my son has followed me into guitar, we keep it fun so it becomes a lifelong passion!

[Muleya]

Yeah, I think I'm certainly more rooted in sentiment than Leo was...I like more traditional designs. However, my hat's off to him for not sitting on his laurels and trying to improve and come up with something new. He was obviously an artist, and the creative juices were always flowing!

I came from a musical family, though nothing professional. My dad was really into choral music and sang in choirs much of his life. Plus he just loved listening to music...jazz and classical mostly, some opera (yikes!!). He was not at all into the pop or rock thing. I've often ruminated on how he passed along his love for music, even if we are into different styles (we both enjoy jazz, but apart from that we listen to very different stuff!). Mom enjoyed music, but not like Dad, but she does play piano some. My sister got it, too...a very good pianist, even played cello for a while and was decent at it...also loves to listen to music.

[louis cyfer]

i have been busy for the last few days. my first g&l is my only one so far, here it is, some of you are probably sick of seeing, it still brings a smile to my face every time i look at it though.



i am actively looking for another. i am all for innovation and improvements, as you can see in my bluesboy. it is rather unique, i do believe there is not another one like it out there. i changed the pups, the control plate, the volume pot and the cap, plus the tone is only on the bridge pup. it is a replacement body, as the original one blew up. that one had no f-hole and a pickguard. i kind of lucked out, because of the body replacement i now have a no pick guard asat. this is the least mods i have ever done to any guitar however. i think that speaks volumes for both leo and bbe, and the quality they produce.

i was not allowed to listen to anything but opera until i was 12 or so. went to the opera from 3-13 twice a month on a season pass, the national opera house in budapest hungary, saw pretty much all of them. my family had no musicians, but my mom took my older cousin to the kodaly institutes school at age 5 (i lived in the city where it is located), and she did not pass the test they gave her, basically just to see if the kid is tonedeaf, and has some rhythm. if you get in, at 1st grade you start a school all the way through 12th grade with a heavy emphasis on music. have to choose one instrument plus piano, and have to sing. a lot of my friends that i had later who went there were full on virtuosos with perfect pitch by age 15-16. however my mother decided that because my cousin didn't get in, our family had no musical talent. turned out later that she was void of any talent, still living with her mom without a job at age 44. but my mom never took me, and i have never forgiven her. it wasn't until 13 when a kid in my class played guitar in a band that i became interested in rock and in guitar. that kid had been taking lessons for 5 years and was the coolest person i had seen to that point in my eyes. so i started lessons, got a guitar and replaced him in his band 4 months later. my family back in hungary still has no one else that has any interest in music, all my other cousin turned out very talented though in different fields. one lawyer, one architect, one doctor and one in international business.
and of course the one total loser.

my stepson got a guitar from me when he was 13 an ibanez rg550, i didn't want it anymore. he just turned 21 and is gettuing by playing restaurant gigs in killeem texas, also playing in a band performing regularly. i guess i kind of influenced him in that direction and passed on the torch.

[kakerlak]

Today, my son has followed me into guitar, we keep it fun so it becomes a lifelong passion!

I think that keeping it fun is the best thing you can do. If you turn (any instrument) into a chore, then you make it much more likely to be abandoned. On the other hand, if you can find an approach that lets the guitar be fun every time he picks it up, even when he's just starting out, then he'll keep picking it up and, the more he does, the better he gets.

[kakerlak]

Hey Louis,
Yours is a really unique story (and guitar)! But you should let your mom off the hook; there's always the chance that you'd never have developed the same passion for music had you gone to the local academy, even if it had left you a better player. Something tells me you ended up alright in that department anyway

ASAT is way cool. I like natural finishes and, w/o the pickguard, it really gives the whole thing a "just a piece of wood" simplicity that's very appealing. Where'd you get the trick control plate with the angled switch slot? Also, you say you swapped pickups, but the bridge one looks like a regular G&L classic model, tell us more!

(Oh, and good on ya for passing on the Ibanez to your stepson. Sounds like he's getting good mileage out of it!)

[louis cyfer]

Hey Louis,
Yours is a really unique story (and guitar)! But you should let your mom off the hook; there's always the chance that you'd never have developed the same passion for music had you gone to the local academy, even if it had left you a better player. Something tells me you ended up alright in that department anyway

ASAT is way cool. I like natural finishes and, w/o the pickguard, it really gives the whole thing a "just a piece of wood" simplicity that's very appealing. Where'd you get the trick control plate with the angled switch slot? Also, you say you swapped pickups, but the bridge one looks like a regular G&L classic model, tell us more!

(Oh, and good on ya for passing on the Ibanez to your stepson. Sounds like he's getting good mileage out of it!)

sorry, that is not an updated pic. i have a fralin steelpole 43 in the bridge now, and a bare knuckle p-90 in the neck. my camera was lost last week, so i have to buy another one, i don't like using the phone camera for posting pics.

what i don't forgive my mom is the attitude of generalizing over from one person to another. she still does that, now with the kids of my cousins. judging one on the abilities of another, projecting them over is not right imnsho.

the pickguard is from mark rutters, but you can get it from luxxtone and taipan as well.

[darwinohm]

Colin, I had lunch out today and that is different for me.

Kit, that LE is beautiful!

I think that BBE/G&L is well set in the product area. I would like to see options added such as no pickguard/ Loaded pickguard configurations that are essentially drop in. I would like to see a solid marketing campaign and better educated dealers. I would also like to see more Fender dealers carry the G&L product along side the Fenders. It is possible as there are some.

I have loved music since i was an infant. I was self taught and even though I had a lot of credits toward a music degree, i was not interested in teaching and the chances of becoming a family supporting musician were slim to none in my case. My children were never into music a lot, but my daughter became interested in guitar four years ago at the age of 38. She has really bloomed and is currently gigging with our band. She would not be doing that if she were not deserving, in fact, it has been more pressure to her because of me. It is such a pleasure to see her developing and the two granddaughters are into music and both play piano and guitar. Whether they stay involved remains to be seen. I am very lucky as my daughter has been self motivated and has grown as a guitarist and on her own. Recently we do a lot of practicing together and it is really rewarding. She is at a level where she really gets it. I am a lucky dad and grandpa. -- Darwin

[kakerlak]

sorry, that is not an updated pic. i have a fralin steelpole 43 in the bridge now, and a bare knuckle p-90 in the neck. my camera was lost last week, so i have to buy another one, i don't like using the phone camera for posting pics.

what i don't forgive my mom is the attitude of generalizing over from one person to another. she still does that, now with the kids of my cousins. judging one on the abilities of another, projecting them over is not right imnsho.

the pickguard is from mark rutters, but you can get it from luxxtone and taipan as well.

No worries on the pic, but that explains a lot! (Sorry about your camera, too, BTW).

And I get what you're saying now about your mom. The failure to consider people objectively, as individuals, is unfortunate for sure. Heck, my mom drives me nuts in several ways and she's about all that's left of my family, lol.

I've thought about flipping my ASAT/tele control plates around before. On stage, and not so much at practice/home, I sometimes inadvertently hit the pickup selector with my little finger. Flipping the plate around would put a stop to that. But, I haven't played on stage in a while anyway, and hardly ever bother to plug anything in at home, so who cares for now! Still, I like the angled slot; it's slick.

[kakerlak]

Colin, I had lunch out today and that is different for me.

Kit, that LE is beautiful!

I think that BBE/G&L is well set in the product area. I would like to see options added such as no pickguard/ Loaded pickguard configurations that are essentially drop in. I would like to see a solid marketing campaign and better educated dealers. I would also like to see more Fender dealers carry the G&L product along side the Fenders. It is possible as there are some.

I have loved music since i was an infant. I was self taught and even though I had a lot of credits toward a music degree, i was not interested in teaching and the chances of becoming a family supporting musician were slim to none in my case. My children were never into music a lot, but my daughter became interested in guitar four years ago at the age of 38. She has really bloomed and is currently gigging with our band. She would not be doing that if she were not deserving, in fact, it has been more pressure to her because of me. It is such a pleasure to see her developing and the two granddaughters are into music and both play piano and guitar. Whether they stay involved remains to be seen. I am very lucky as my daughter has been self motivated and has grown as a guitarist and on her own. Recently we do a lot of practicing together and it is really rewarding. She is at a level where she really gets it. I am a lucky dad and grandpa. -- Darwin

Darwin, that's cool about your daughter. Some people insist you can never be really good at an instrument if you pick it up in adulthood, but I always thought that was bunk.

I'd like to see the same from G&L. Options are always cool. I think what I meant was more along the lines of if the brand introduced a totally re-designed bridge, totally new pickup, or something else that was a fully new part. The kind of thing nobody here envisions but is some sort of functional improvement. (the kind of thing Leo would likely come out with sooner or later) Being honest, I think I'd be likely to reject something like that for dissolving some of the brand identity and abandoning parts Leo designed. On the other hand, those kinds of changes (depending on execution) might honor his legacy better than keeping his designs in production...

I don't know. Sometimes a good guitar is just good, and always will be, regardless of what comes after.

[cmguitar]

Colin,
A Okie that's a Vegetarian!!!
My wife had some health issues a went 3 months totally vegan.
I am proud of her for doing that.
She got me really thinking about what I ate.
There's my hijack from yesterdays posting.
Lunch: I had a meeting today I had to go to, they had sliders and chips
So I had sliders and a Dr. Pepper so much for eating healthy.

G&L: I would like to see a hollowbody model maybe a jazz box or maybe a rockabilly rocket. and maybe a small body ASAT style. and possibly different variety of pickups going with P90 style or a Filtertron/TV Jones option.

What I would like to see BBE do the most is market be more aggressive.Get the G&L name back out there. I am really afraid G&L is going to fall to the wayside.
The closest dealer I have near me is 30 miles of crappy Dallas traffic to get to.
Fire the production line up and start selling Tributes at Guitar Center and Sam Ash. GET THE NAME OUT AND MARKET!!!!

Non G&L:I got my first guitar when I was 3 years old I saw a Airline guitar at Wards according to the story I would not let it go until my mother bought it for me.
No one in my family played a musical instrument. I took lessons when I was 10 years old. Lost interest at that point I started learning on my own then jamming when I was about 13-14 years old playing gigs at 16.Quit playing at 22 for about 13 years.So except for a couple of months of lessons I am self taught.

[louis cyfer]

Colin,
A Okie that's a Vegetarian!!!
My wife had some health issues a went 3 months totally vegan.
I am proud of her for doing that.
She got me really thinking about what I ate.
There's my hijack from yesterdays posting.
Lunch: I had a meeting today I had to go to, they had sliders and chips
So I had sliders and a Dr. Pepper so much for eating healthy.

G&L: I would like to see a hollowbody model maybe a jazz box or maybe a rockabilly rocket. and maybe a small body ASAT style. and possibly different variety of pickups going with P90 style or a Filtertron/TV Jones option.

What I would like to see BBE do the most is market be more aggressive.Get the G&L name back out there. I am really afraid G&L is going to fall to the wayside.
The closest dealer I have near me is 30 miles of crappy Dallas traffic to get to.
Fire the production line up and start selling Tributes at Guitar Center and Sam Ash. GET THE NAME OUT AND MARKET!!!!

Non G&L:I got my first guitar when I was 3 years old I saw a Airline guitar at Wards according to the story I would not let it go until my mother bought it for me.
No one in my family played a musical instrument. I took lessons when I was 10 years old. Lost interest at that point I started learning on my own then jamming when I was about 13-14 years old playing gigs at 16.Quit playing at 22 for about 13 years.So except for a couple of months of lessons I am self taught.

you can not tech yourself something you don't know. you can learn on your own though. but self taught? would you really want a teacher who doesn't know what they are teaching?

[gitman001]

Hey Colin,

G & L

I would love to see them do a different body shape, i think the SC-2 (mustang) is fantastic and i think a Jazzmaster/Jaguar shape would fit into the product line extremely well. Imagine a Jazzmaster with a saddle lock bridge, and big MFD's! Toss in all the colour options G&L has and i think they would have a really unique competitive guitar. I have seen a big resurgence of Jags at the local fender dealer and i must say some of them look really nice.

Too much tinkering and you loose the identity. Take Godin for example.... I am a hugh fan ( i have 7 ) but every other year they seem to almost completely revamp the lineup. I love the fact they they are always pushing the boundaries of manufacturing and innovation, but at the same time i think they loose out because they don't have a consistent flagship guitar/design.

Non G&L

My family growing up was very unmusical, although my dad loves music he never played. He did however always have the oldies stations blaring, so i received quite the musical education without even knowing it!

My wife is a piano teacher and we have our 2 little girls in a music program called "Music for Young Children". It is an absolutely fantastic program that is taught worldwide. I would highly recommend it to anyone with small kids... it is a great precursor to private lessons. I won't push my girls, my philosophy is music is fun and too be enjoyed i will not push them out of it by forcing hours upon hours of practice upon them. However if the time comes that they are showing signs of going down a musical path then I will certainly strongly encourage the hours upon hours of practice

Scott

[kakerlak]

Yeah, I'd take a Jag/JM style body... You know, the original Stingray guitar was sort of Jazzmaster-esque.

[Muleya]

What I would like to see BBE do the most is market be more aggressive.Get the G&L name back out there. I am really afraid G&L is going to fall to the wayside.
The closest dealer I have near me is 30 miles of crappy Dallas traffic to get to.
Fire the production line up and start selling Tributes at Guitar Center and Sam Ash. GET THE NAME OUT AND MARKET!!!!

I've got mixed feelings on this. My local dealer (who is an acquaintance and generally good guy, so I know this isn't just the standard dealer BS) explained his understanding of G&L's relationship with BBE...that BBE is a strong, well established company, even before getting into the instrument industry. Thus, there is not a lot of pressure on G&L to rake in big bucks. This allows G&L to focus on quality more than quantity. From my experience, there seems to be some validity to that. And while I cannot personally attest to this, I've heard a number of people say how standard production USA G&L rivals F**der Custom Shop work.

So as much as I'd like to see G&L with greater visibility, my fear is that if G&L were to become as popular and F**der or G**son, they may lose some of that.

[JagInTheBag]

I am, of course, VERY interested in a G&L version of the Jag/Jazz body.

[JagInTheBag]

i have been busy for the last few days. my first g&l is my only one so far, here it is, some of you are probably sick of seeing, it still brings a smile to my face every time i look at it though.

Looks great Louis. Although, it could use a tort pickguard!

[louis cyfer]

i have been busy for the last few days. my first g&l is my only one so far, here it is, some of you are probably sick of seeing, it still brings a smile to my face every time i look at it though.

Looks great Louis. Although, it could use a tort pickguard!

indeed. over my cold dead body

[JagInTheBag]