Current ASAT Classic S - same as 2004 & 2007 limited runs?

[ggh_gl]

G&L appears to be offering an ASAT Classic S which appears equivalent to the Custom Creations Department's ASAT Classic S semi-hollow bodies (no f-hole) which were built in 100 piece limited runs in 2004 and 2007. Are the current offerings identical to the limited run guitars? Thanks!

[yowhatsshakin]

There are some slight differences I know of. First all of the '04 Classic 'S' guitars and many of the '07 run have a volume push-pull instead of a tone push-pull (in slight contrast to what's stated on the CCD web page). In addition, most of the post 2008 Classic 'S' guitars I have seen have a rear- and/or body contour, making them by definition solid bodies instead of semi-hollow, in contrast to the CCD runs. I don't know whether contours are a standard feature on the Classic 'S' now but that is at least what I have observed looking at ads, eBay auctions, and CL listings. You can of course specify the body to have no contours if so desired because it is after all an option; don't know whether semi-hollow is an option on the post '08 production version of the Classic 'S'. And then finally, since February 2011, the ASAT Classic neck pickup is also reverse wound compared to the standard ASAT Clasic neck pup (so wound like ht ebridge pup) to solve a hum problem (see the Classic 'S' entry in the List of Regular Production ASAT-style guitars).

Hope this helps,

- Jos

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

Am I misreading this?

As the entry is written, all of the pickups would be reverse-wound as of Feb. 2011 which could not provide any hum cancelling.

1. S-500 reverse-wound middle pickup
2. Reverse-wound neck pickup as of Feb. 2011
3. As of Feb 2011 the neck pickup has "the same wind/polarity as the bridge pickup" implying the bridge pickup is reverse-wound as well.

Originally a Custom Creations Special Build model, it was added to standard production in January 2008. It still sports three MFD pickups: ASAT Classic bridge pickup, 1. S-500 reverse wound middle pickup, and ASAT Classic neck pickup, beginning in Feb. 2011, the 2. neck pickup was changed to a reverse wound pickup. This special built neck pickup was created to correct the hum in the #2 position (neck+middle) by having the 3. same wind/polarity as the bridge pickup. The body is Swamp Ash with rear and arm contours.

https://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41

[Craig]

Am I misreading this?

As the entry is written, all of the pickups would be reverse-wound as of Feb. 2011 which could not provide any hum cancelling.

1. S-500 reverse-wound middle pickup
2. Reverse-wound neck pickup as of Feb. 2011
3. As of Feb 2011 the neck pickup has "the same wind/polarity as the bridge pickup" implying the bridge pickup is reverse-wound as well.

Originally a Custom Creations Special Build model, it was added to standard production in January 2008. It still sports three MFD pickups: ASAT Classic bridge pickup, 1. S-500 reverse wound middle pickup, and ASAT Classic neck pickup, beginning in Feb. 2011, the 2. neck pickup was changed to a reverse wound pickup. This special built neck pickup was created to correct the hum in the #2 position (neck+middle) by having the 3. same wind/polarity as the bridge pickup. The body is Swamp Ash with rear and arm contours.

https://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41

Well, not quite: the neck and bridge pickup are not RW/RP from each other, only the middle pickup is RW/RP from the neck and bridge.

From the Gallery entry for the ASAT Classic S Revised:

ASAT-Classic-S-Revised
Thanks to John Toner from G&L for this diagram. Along with the
diagram, John provided the history to this change:

The revised version is my effort to correct the hum in the #2 position (neck+middle).
I had noticed that you could only cancel hum in the #4 position (middle+bridge).
I had several calls from dealers and owners asking about that.
My solution was to make a new pickup for the Classic “S” where the neck pickup had the same wind/polarity as the bridge.
The new pickup can be distinguished by the yellow and red wires as opposed to the white and black wires of the Standard ASAT neck pickup.
The Revised Classic “S” now cancels hum in positions 2 and 4 and gives you that “in between” or “pseudo out of phase sound” that is characteristic of Legacys, S-500s and Strats.
After showing the results to Steve Grom and Dave McLaren, they gave the thumbs up and now all Classic “S” ASATs are changed over to this revision

Hope this helps.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

.

So it looks like the entry should be corrected to read, "...the neck pickup was changed from a reverse-wound to a regular-wound pickup...."

As it is written it does not agree with the quoted text in your last post.

The end result provides standard S-500 or Legacy switching options, is this not correct?

.

[Craig]

.

So it looks like the entry should be corrected to read, "...the neck pickup was changed from a reverse-wound to a regular-wound pickup...."

As it is written it does not agree with the quoted text in your last post.

The end result provides standard S-500 or Legacy switching options, is this not correct?

.

Yep, you are correct. I will correct this.

Thanks.

[louis cyfer]

what is incorrect: having the s500 reverse wound middle pup. can not be. the regular asat has a reverse wound bridge, and now they corrected the neck to be reverse wound, but the middle pup has to be the standard wound s500 pup.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

Yep, you are correct. I will correct this.

Craig,

No embarrassment warranted. It was just a simple need for clarification in an explanation.


Hmm no one immediately caught a fundamental issue that has been part of the S-pickup configuration from its beginning though?

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

what is incorrect: having the s500 reverse wound middle pup. can not be. the regular asat has a reverse wound bridge, and now they corrected the neck to be reverse wound, but the middle pup has to be the standard wound s500 pup.

The mistake appears to have been the designers getting locked into the idea of it being a modified 2-pickup configuration instead of recognizing that it became an S-style configuration as soon as the 3rd pup was added.

[louis cyfer]

what is incorrect: having the s500 reverse wound middle pup. can not be. the regular asat has a reverse wound bridge, and now they corrected the neck to be reverse wound, but the middle pup has to be the standard wound s500 pup.

The mistake appears to have been the designers getting locked into the idea of it being a modified 2-pickup configuration instead of recognizing that it became an S-style configuration as soon as the 3rd pup was added.

i think they wanted to stay with the asat pups, but they needed to put in a standard bridge to fix it and use the reverse s500 middle pup. how it escaped them at the time of design is mind blowing. what i am sayong in the description the rerverse wound s500 middle pup had to be incorrect from the get go because it humcancelled with the bridge pup.

[Craig]

See this from the Custom Creations page for the ASAT Classic 'S':

In April 2003 the G&L Custom Creations team decided to revisit the theme established by the ASAT Classic Three, using again a third, centrally located pickup and five position selector switch. This time, however, a reverse-wound S-500 middle pickup is installed in the middle position of an ASAT Classic. The basic idea for this kind of arrangement has been long established in the Nashville session player scene, where players often install a Strat® middle pickup in the middle position of a Telecaster® and swap the 3-position pickup selector with a 5-way unit.

The G&L Custom Creations Department dediced to build an instrument similar to the formula adopted by the Nashville guys but with a distinctly G&L flavor. In particular, that means a Semi-Hollow Swamp Ash body, ASAT Classic MFD pickups in place of Alnico Tele® pickups, and the S-500 MFD in place of the Strat pickup. The CCD team decided to ice the cake with a push/pull volume pot (changed to tone pot for run #2)that functions the same way as the S-500's mini-toggle switch, enabling additional pickup combinations of neck+bridge or all three pickups together.

The "S" designation comes from both internal designation for this instrument, due to its use of the S-500 middle pickup, and "Session" in homage to the origin of this guitar configuration.

It was by design.

And the change to this design was due to customers and dealers wanting it modified (see above) and so G&L agreed to made the change.
It's as simple as that.

Hope this helps.

[louis cyfer]

See this from the Custom Creations page for the ASAT Classic 'S':

In April 2003 the G&L Custom Creations team decided to revisit the theme established by the ASAT Classic Three, using again a third, centrally located pickup and five position selector switch. This time, however, a reverse-wound S-500 middle pickup is installed in the middle position of an ASAT Classic. The basic idea for this kind of arrangement has been long established in the Nashville session player scene, where players often install a Strat® middle pickup in the middle position of a Telecaster® and swap the 3-position pickup selector with a 5-way unit.

The G&L Custom Creations Department dediced to build an instrument similar to the formula adopted by the Nashville guys but with a distinctly G&L flavor. In particular, that means a Semi-Hollow Swamp Ash body, ASAT Classic MFD pickups in place of Alnico Tele® pickups, and the S-500 MFD in place of the Strat pickup. The CCD team decided to ice the cake with a push/pull volume pot (changed to tone pot for run #2)that functions the same way as the S-500's mini-toggle switch, enabling additional pickup combinations of neck+bridge or all three pickups together.

The "S" designation comes from both internal designation for this instrument, due to its use of the S-500 middle pickup, and "Session" in homage to the origin of this guitar configuration.

It was by design.

And the change to this design was due to customers and dealers wanting it modified (see above) and so G&L agreed to made the change.
It's as simple as that.

Hope this helps.

that makes sense, but the middle pup being reverse wound is not mentioned here, not could it have been as per the other description because it hum cancelled with the bridge pup.

[Craig]

that makes sense, but the middle pup being reverse wound is not mentioned here, not could it have been as per the other description because it hum cancelled with the bridge pup.

The basic idea for this kind of arrangement has been long established in the Nashville session player scene, where players often install a Strat® middle pickup in the middle position of a Telecaster®

and

In particular, that means a Semi-Hollow Swamp Ash body, ASAT Classic MFD pickups in place of Alnico Tele® pickups, and the S-500 MFD in place of the Strat pickup.

That seems clear to me that they use an S-500 middle pickup.

At least that's how I read it.

[louis cyfer]

that makes sense, but the middle pup being reverse wound is not mentioned here, not could it have been as per the other description because it hum cancelled with the bridge pup.

The basic idea for this kind of arrangement has been long established in the Nashville session player scene, where players often install a Strat® middle pickup in the middle position of a Telecaster®

and

In particular, that means a Semi-Hollow Swamp Ash body, ASAT Classic MFD pickups in place of Alnico Tele® pickups, and the S-500 MFD in place of the Strat pickup.

That seems clear to me that they use an S-500 middle pickup.

At least that's how I read it.

i am talking about this "ASAT Classic bridge pickup, S-500 reverse wound middle pickup". the asat classic bridge pup is reverse wound normally to be hum cancelling with the neck pup.
john toner said this "I had noticed that you could only cancel hum in the #4 position (middle+bridge)", which would indicate the middle pup was not reverse wound. can not be.

[yowhatsshakin]

i am talking about this "ASAT Classic bridge pickup, S-500 reverse wound middle pickup". the asat classic bridge pup is reverse wound normally to be hum cancelling with the neck pup.
john toner said this "I had noticed that you could only cancel hum in the #4 position (middle+bridge)", which would indicate the middle pup was not reverse wound. can not be.

Depends on which of the 2 ASAT Classic pups you take as 'standard wound', doesn't it? The choice that makes sense to me in this whole discussion about the Classic 'S' (but see below) would be to pick the bridge as 'standard' and the neck as 'reverse wound', which would make no difference for the 2-pickup ASAT Classic where hum would be canceled in the middle (neck+bridge) position. Adding a reverse wound (with respect to the bridge pickup) S-500 pup in the middle would be hum-canceling in combination with the bridge as stated. In case of the 3-pickup Classic 'S', now reversing the winding of the neck pup, i.e. making it similar to the bridge in terms of winding, would indeed also cause the combination of the S-500 middle and neck to become hum-canceling. However, the neck+bridge, which for the Classic 'S' can only be selected with an expander switch if present, should no longer be hum-canceling.

Later today, I have to do an experiment on my ASAT 'Classic IIII' which according to the web page has a reverse-wound ASAT Classic neck pickup in the middle, which I take to read 'reverse-wound with respect to the standard neck pickup and hence similarly wound as the bridge pickup'. If that theory holds water, on the 'Classic III', the middle+neck would be hum-cancelling but the bridge+middle would not. But if they really wanted it to be 'Strat-like', that reverse-wound neck pickup would have ended up in the neck position with the standard neck pickup shifted over to the middle. As it turns out, I''ll receive a '07 Classic 'S' later today (weather permitting) and hopefully can do a similar experiment on that guitar too for comparison.

Hope this makes sense (and I hope it is all correct).

- Jos

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

.

I'll restate what I said earlier.....the mistake appears to have been the designers getting locked into the idea of it being a modified 2-pickup configuration instead of recognizing that it became an S-style configuration as soon as the 3rd pup was added.

Had they taken a step back when their heads were buried in the ASAT and realized their ideas had lead them to essentially a Strat configuration implanted into an ASAT body they should have spotted the problems with polarity.


Is there any difference in tone if you only change the wind on every pickup in a, *S-style configuration, making it Rev-W / Reg-W / Rev-W as opoosed to the typical S-style configuration Reg / Rev / Reg?



*S-style used here to indicate Strat-style 3 single-coil pickup configuration not S-500 or "Session" as described on the Custom Creations page.

[darwinohm]

MGM asks: Is there any difference in tone if you only change the wind on every pickup in a, *S-style configuration, making it Rev-W / Reg-W / Rev-W as opoosed to the typical S-style configuration Reg / Rev / Reg?

I think that is a fair question and I believe that in a sterile environment there would be no difference in sound. I think the Louis point that the neck pu in phase with the middle pu or is the bridge pu in phase with the middle pickup would make a difference whichever way you go. Am I missing something or do I not understand the discussion? I have an original Classic S and I am not sure which pickup is in phase with the middle pickup but I would think that one could test using a 1.5 volt battery and check the polarity much like testing the phasing of loud speakers. Darwin

[yowhatsshakin]

Later today, I have to do an experiment on my ASAT 'Classic IIII' which according to the web page has a reverse-wound ASAT Classic neck pickup in the middle, which I take to read 'reverse-wound with respect to the standard neck pickup and hence similarly wound as the bridge pickup'. If that theory holds water, on the 'Classic III', the middle+neck would be hum-cancelling but the bridge+middle would not.

Did it and the theory has been supported by empirical data! Indeed at least for 'Classic III', middle+neck are hum canceling, whereas selecting bridge+middle leaves a little hum. It is less than using any of the single coils by themselves but still discernible. But again, neck+middle is dead quiet as expected.

I received the '07 Butterscotch Blonde Classic 'S' today but it had to acclimate a bit after a long, cold track through these United States. It took a while before I could test it. And at that time it was late already so I have not been able yet to sonically compare the ASAT Classic III and the ASAT Classic 'S'. But for this discussion, I did quickly test the hum-canceling and indeed, only the bridge+neck is fully canceling.

Otherwise I fully agree with Michael. Realizing you basically deal with a Strat setup in a Tele-body would have proactively solved the problem. But from what I understand, given the information provided in Craig's posts, that is not the way the design team was thinking going for the G&L version of the 'standard' Tele setup + middle Strat pup. And such configuration should show the same problems in Fender-land. I think that is one of the big advantages of the (pre-BBE) ASAT III models which actually uses a complete S-500 setup; all Strat so to speak.

Is there any difference in tone if you only change the wind on every pickup in a, *S-style configuration, making it Rev-W / Reg-W / Rev-W as opoosed to the typical S-style configuration Reg / Rev / Reg?

Don't think so. It is the relative configuration that is important not the absolute. As we physicist like to say, you just perform a parity operation to transform one into the other. If not the same, it would mean that while playing in front of a mirror, the person on the other side would produce a 'different sound'

- Jos

[NickHorne]

I'm hoping G&L's might make one with the previous spec of neck pup, so that the 5-way could go:
Neck / Neck-and-Bridge / Middle / Middle-and-Bridge / Bridge.
I'd go without the push-pull, and give it a toggle "blower" to go straight to Middle-and--Bridge-in-series.
Might suit this old geezer rather nicely!

[NickHorne]

Can the ASAT Classic S semi-hollow be ordered with f-holes?
Doesn't even seem like there would be enough wood to make a 3-pup semi at all; but if it can be done, it's attractive.

[Craig]

Can the ASAT Classic S semi-hollow be ordered with f-holes?
Doesn't even seem like there would be enough wood to make a 3-pup semi at all; but if it can be done, it's attractive.

Based upon the current 2012 G&L Price List, the production version of the ASAT Classic 'S' is solid body only:

ASAT Classic ‘S’
Same as ASAT Classic, except features a contoured arm and rear body, reverse-wound S-500 middle
pickup and 5-way pickup selector with push/pull expansion switch enabling additional pickup
combinations of neck+bridge or all 3 pickups together.

There are several semi-hollow models with 3 pickups: ASAT Z-3 Semi-Hollow, Comanche Semi-Hollow,
Will Ray Signature Semi-Hollow, Comanche Semi-Hollow, Legacy Semi-Hollow, and S-500 Semi-Hollow.

Hope this helps.

[louis cyfer]

Later today, I have to do an experiment on my ASAT 'Classic IIII' which according to the web page has a reverse-wound ASAT Classic neck pickup in the middle, which I take to read 'reverse-wound with respect to the standard neck pickup and hence similarly wound as the bridge pickup'. If that theory holds water, on the 'Classic III', the middle+neck would be hum-cancelling but the bridge+middle would not.

Did it and the theory has been supported by empirical data! Indeed at least for 'Classic III', middle+neck are hum canceling, whereas selecting bridge+middle leaves a little hum. It is less than using any of the single coils by themselves but still discernible. But again, neck+middle is dead quiet as expected.

I received the '07 Butterscotch Blonde Classic 'S' today but it had to acclimate a bit after a long, cold track through these United States. It took a while before I could test it. And at that time it was late already so I have not been able yet to sonically compare the ASAT Classic III and the ASAT Classic 'S'. But for this discussion, I did quickly test the hum-canceling and indeed, only the bridge+neck is fully canceling.

Otherwise I fully agree with Michael. Realizing you basically deal with a Strat setup in a Tele-body would have proactively solved the problem. But from what I understand, given the information provided in Craig's posts, that is not the way the design team was thinking going for the G&L version of the 'standard' Tele setup + middle Strat pup. And such configuration should show the same problems in Fender-land. I think that is one of the big advantages of the (pre-BBE) ASAT III models which actually uses a complete S-500 setup; all Strat so to speak.

Is there any difference in tone if you only change the wind on every pickup in a, *S-style configuration, making it Rev-W / Reg-W / Rev-W as opoosed to the typical S-style configuration Reg / Rev / Reg?

Don't think so. It is the relative configuration that is important not the absolute. As we physicist like to say, you just perform a parity operation to transform one into the other. If not the same, it would mean that while playing in front of a mirror, the person on the other side would produce a 'different sound'

- Jos

that would mean the bridge is the reverse wound one as i said, which is usually the case with t style guitars.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

that would mean the bridge is the reverse wound one as i said, which is usually the case with t style guitars.

Louis,

You appear to be correct about the S-500 MFD in the middle position being a regular wound pickup in order to produce hum cancelling in position #4. If they started with a standard two-pickup ASAT wind configuration and simply added a middle pickup they complicated the process and ended up producing errors needing correction later. Such a scenario is what has been described in this quote which corroborates your observation:

From the Gallery entry for the ASAT Classic S Revised:

ASAT-Classic-S-Revised
Thanks to John Toner from G&L for this diagram. Along with the
diagram, John provided the history to this change:

The revised version is my effort to correct the hum in the #2 position (neck+middle).
I had noticed that you could only cancel hum in the #4 position (middle+bridge).
I had several calls from dealers and owners asking about that.
My solution was to make a new pickup for the Classic “S” where the neck pickup had the same wind/polarity as the bridge.
The new pickup can be distinguished by the yellow and red wires as opposed to the white and black wires of the Standard ASAT neck pickup.
The Revised Classic “S” now cancels hum in positions 2 and 4 and gives you that “in between” or “pseudo out of phase sound” that is characteristic of Legacys, S-500s and Strats.
After showing the results to Steve Grom and Dave McLaren, they gave the thumbs up and now all Classic “S” ASATs are changed over to this revision

So this needs to be corrected to indicate it is a regular wound S-500 MFD in the middle position:

Originally a Custom Creations Special Build model, it was added to standard production in January 2008. It still sports three MFD pickups: ASAT Classic bridge pickup, S-500 reverse wound middle pickup, and ASAT Classic neck pickup, beginning in Feb. 2011, the neck pickup was changed. This special built neck pickup was created to correct the hum in the #2 position (neck+middle) by having the same wind/polarity as the bridge pickup. The body is Swamp Ash with rear and arm contours.

Source: https://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41

[Craig]

Yes, I have already contacted the factory about this and will post a reply
as soon as I hear back.

Stay tuned.

[louis cyfer]

that would mean the bridge is the reverse wound one as i said, which is usually the case with t style guitars.

Louis,

You appear to be correct about the S-500 MFD in the middle position being a regular wound pickup in order to produce hum cancelling in position #4. If they started with a standard two-pickup ASAT wind configuration and simply added a middle pickup they complicated the process and ended up producing errors needing correction later. Such a scenario is what has been described in this quote which corroborates your observation:

From the Gallery entry for the ASAT Classic S Revised:

ASAT-Classic-S-Revised
Thanks to John Toner from G&L for this diagram. Along with the
diagram, John provided the history to this change:

The revised version is my effort to correct the hum in the #2 position (neck+middle).
I had noticed that you could only cancel hum in the #4 position (middle+bridge).
I had several calls from dealers and owners asking about that.
My solution was to make a new pickup for the Classic “S” where the neck pickup had the same wind/polarity as the bridge.
The new pickup can be distinguished by the yellow and red wires as opposed to the white and black wires of the Standard ASAT neck pickup.
The Revised Classic “S” now cancels hum in positions 2 and 4 and gives you that “in between” or “pseudo out of phase sound” that is characteristic of Legacys, S-500s and Strats.
After showing the results to Steve Grom and Dave McLaren, they gave the thumbs up and now all Classic “S” ASATs are changed over to this revision

So this needs to be corrected to indicate it is a regular wound S-500 MFD in the middle position:

Originally a Custom Creations Special Build model, it was added to standard production in January 2008. It still sports three MFD pickups: ASAT Classic bridge pickup, S-500 reverse wound middle pickup, and ASAT Classic neck pickup, beginning in Feb. 2011, the neck pickup was changed. This special built neck pickup was created to correct the hum in the #2 position (neck+middle) by having the same wind/polarity as the bridge pickup. The body is Swamp Ash with rear and arm contours.

Source: https://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=41

yes, that was my point, all the info could not have been correct.