bluesboy pup question

[louis cyfer]

i replaced the bridge pup on my bluesboy with a fralin steelpole 43 tele pup. it really sweetened the tone, and it is essentially the mfd pickup design, but with alnico instead of ceramic magnets. i am still finding that the seth lover is a little too dark for me on the wound strings. has anyone replaced the neckpup on a bluesboy? i want more of a p90 feel, a little more sizzle if you will, an little more spank form the neck pup wound string. fralin makes the p92 and the twangmaster, both humbucker sized (and still humbucking) p90ish pups, http://www.fralinpickups.com/humbuckers.asp#p92 that look like a fender wide range humbucker.
klein makes a humbucker sized p90 http://www.kleinpickups.com/p-267-humbu ... d-p90.aspx
lollar makes a single coil version that fits the humbucker route as well http://www.lollarguitars.com/mm5/mercha ... er-pickups

and vintage vibe makes 2 different versions, like fralin, one with screw in pole pieces and one with alnico rods. these also come with several different and interchangable magnets, alnico 2, 3, 5, and ceramic 8 magnets can be purchased, 2 different ones come with it. http://www.vintagevibeguitars.com/windo ... coWin.html

there are a few more out there, but these seem to be the main ones. if anyone has any experience with a good replacement, i would be grateful for suggestions. also any opinions on the above mentioned pups would be appreciated.
the fralins would be the only humbucking ones, and the look is different with the split singles. but the middle hum cancelling would not happen. the vintage vibe ones are true single coils, but the magnets are reversible, and so are the wires, so it can be made to hum cancel with any bridge pup. also available with nickel cover. those are also internally shielded with grounded shielding surrounding the coils to eliminate hum.

any and all help is appreciated.

[NickHorne]

I feel maybe you just said it, you want a P90 vibe.
I remember discussing Lindy's split (wide-range-like) pups at some length with him, and I would love to try them with a humbucking back pup one day; the alnico-rod ones do adjust, like Velvet Hammers: the magnets can slide in the plastic bobbins.
But as you say, in a regular Tele format, you lose the humbucking middle, so you might just as well have kept with a single-coil at the neck. I think Lindy made a humbucking Fender / single-coil Gibson, which I would fully expect to be lovely, but not to be a P90.
The bucker-sized P90's seem the really obvious way to go (I've often wondered about exactly this layout myself).
Perhaps your choices have opened up on account of fitting the Fralin steel-pole at the back; I imagine this has a more orthodox impedance than the MFD, and if so will combine more happily with traditional winds like P90 types.
V. best wishes with this axe of yours; please post info on how it develops.

[NickHorne]

PS I'm sure L. Fralin would agree that keeping the winding of the P90 on the moderate side will be beneficial, avoiding counterproductive thickness.

[louis cyfer]

thanks for the input. good thoughts. some newer info the fralin p92's are still a little too dark and the twangmaster is not as thick as i'd like. it actually looks like i'll be going with a bareknuckle mississippi queen neck pup, which is an alnico 4 true p90 in humbucker housing with a nickel cover. i just have to figure out the winding and pole directions to get the hum cancelling middle position, and also the 4 way switch at that point.

http://www.bareknucklepickups.co.uk/mai ... ippi_queen

[NickHorne]

I've heard only good about this Bare Knuckle; sounds like this is going to be a really likeable guitar!
The magnetic centre of the P90 type will be just a nice bit nearer the bridge than a regular Classic, too; this can only help to keep the warm end in focus. And some higher harmonics may speak better.
I personally love the dynamic response of P90's. The brain / finger / sound connection just feels very musical and right , and combining one with your Fralin at the bridge sounds really promising.
How would you describe the character of the semihollow Asat in comparison with solid? I'm imagining that semi could be extra characterful with these pups in.

[louis cyfer]

I've heard only good about this Bare Knuckle; sounds like this is going to be a really likeable guitar!
The magnetic centre of the P90 type will be just a nice bit nearer the bridge than a regular Classic, too; this can only help to keep the warm end in focus. And some higher harmonics may speak better.
I personally love the dynamic response of P90's. The brain / finger / sound connection just feels very musical and right , and combining one with your Fralin at the bridge sounds really promising.
How would you describe the character of the semihollow Asat in comparison with solid? I'm imagining that semi could be extra characterful with these pups in.

the sh to me is a little more resonant and lively feeling compared to the solid body. i guess your term "more characterful" is as good a term as i have heard.

[NickHorne]

I'm pretty sure the Mississippi Queen can be ordered with 2-core-plus-screen cable, which removes any phase concerns; maybe that 4-way could even become a 5-way, with the Bill Lawrence / Jerry Donahue imitation-strat-quack circuit (both pups, neck out of phase and in parallel but via a cap)??

[louis cyfer]

I'm pretty sure the Mississippi Queen can be ordered with 2-core-plus-screen cable, which removes any phase concerns; maybe that 4-way could even become a 5-way, with the Bill Lawrence / Jerry Donahue imitation-strat-quack circuit (both pups, neck out of phase and in parallel but via a cap)??

i ordered it like that, but the magnet polarity is still important. got it though. talked to both bkp and fralin and they both wind stock in the same polarity same direction. i'll take a look at that mod.

[NickHorne]

My brains dropped out of gear, or what!
Guess I subconsciously assumed the magnetic polarities would be reverse...
The Donahue / Lawrence circuit, as I recall, goes like this:
Bridge connects normally, and in-phase.
Neck is reverse-phase, and its hot connection is via a tone-pot-sized cap or smaller (maybe .01uF; Lawrence says smaller = sweeter sounding), so that its bottom-end isn't very present in the out-of-phase mix.
I remember enjoying this on my Donahue Tele.
And presumably it can be done the other way around, i.e with the bridge pup via the cap. But reverse-phasing Tele back pups is probably not the greatest idea anyhow...

[NickHorne]

ouch; brains definitely not on straight today!!
Of course it can be wired with the bridge pup, instead of the neck, coming via the cap. The phase-reversed neck simply stays the same either way.
Neck via cap will give full bridge, plus bassless phase-rev neck.
Bridge via cap will give full phase-rev neck, plus bassless bridge.
I'm pretty sure the Donahue was wired for the "full bridge plus bassless neck" orientation. It was good.
Also, if I remember right, it had a resistor of around 6K8 in line with the neck, as well as the cap. Though Bill Lawrence's circuit didn't mention this, and I imagine it would work nicely with just the cap.

[louis cyfer]

the mississippi queen is incredible. exactly what i wanted. i wasn't using the humbucker in the g&l, it didn't sound right. this pup is great. it's fat and has an attitude, but still has a sparkle to the top end, the wound strings sound really alive. the clean tone is big and full yet still has spank. the overdriven tone doesn't have that deadness humbuckers have, it has grit and bite and anger, yet it shimmers. it is very sensitive to height adjustment, you get it too close to the strings, it starts losing the personality, the brightness on the low strings, but it has a lot of output, so i have it basically flat with the pup ring, and it matches the bridge pup volume. very balanced as well, no need to tilt it either way, i have it basically flat to the body. i am very happy. for bluesy cleanish leads it has a meanness to it that you can't get with humbuckers, or strat pups. the middle position was great on this guitar, the best sound really stock, and it still improved with this pup. it has quack and spank, but still full sounding. basically the pup the bluesboy should have stock. the seth lover is too mellow and polite on the wound strings, doesn't feel alive like this one.

[NickHorne]

It's really pleasing that this has worked out so well for you!
I am going to try this myself; I have been nursing the idea of acquiring a Bluesboy just to replace the humbucker with a P90 type, and the bridge with something-by-Fralin.
So I intend to go ahead, and I'll be putting the Mississippi Queen up top of the choices for the front pup. I've heard nothing but good about it, and the response you describe sounds just fantastically right.
Good that it works better when not too close; I usually find that volume balance up the neck is much better when the neck pup isn't close, though P90 types are already better than many others in this respect, for some reason.
V. stoked, and encouraged, that your result is so good.

[louis cyfer]

i had the first gig with the new pup and wow. i got a lot of compliments on the tone. i had a lot of fun. the bkp was so fat at gig levels, i could hardly believe it, yet it maintaned the clarity and bark, unlike the seth lover before.

[NickHorne]

Fantastic. Sounds like it's v. characterful and smoky.
I'm already thinking semi, Old School Tobacco burst, single-ply black guard (and black pup??), #4 quartersawn neck, rosewood, with a B-bend hipshot.
Yours, BTW, looks amazing.

[NickHorne]

Have you kept the original Bluesboy control circuit with your new pups?
Or did you find you wanted to change some pot / cap values?

I am really pleased that you're getting the results you describe! I've always had the idea of a great Tele with a really fine P90 in it, and something nice at the bridge to go with it. You have given me the shove I have been needing to get going and do it. I can be in love with a great P90 all my life, no doubt about it, and the last few years have opened my eyes to G&L, which are a bit of a secret in England for some reason.

Best,
Nick

[louis cyfer]

Have you kept the original Bluesboy control circuit with your new pups?
Or did you find you wanted to change some pot / cap values?

I am really pleased that you're getting the results you describe! I've always had the idea of a great Tele with a really fine P90 in it, and something nice at the bridge to go with it. You have given me the shove I have been needing to get going and do it. I can be in love with a great P90 all my life, no doubt about it, and the last few years have opened my eyes to G&L, which are a bit of a secret in England for some reason.

Best,
Nick

i changed the volume pot to a bourns low torque linear taper 250 k. also a pio .047 cap, on bridge pup only.

[NickHorne]

Thank you for that, Louis.
Do you mean the tone pot is only available when bridge-pup-only is selected, and there is simply no tone control for the neck or mix selections?
Or have you used a .047 when bridge is selected, but some other value for the other selections?

[louis cyfer]

Thank you for that, Louis.
Do you mean the tone pot is only available when bridge-pup-only is selected, and there is simply no tone control for the neck or mix selections?
Or have you used a .047 when bridge is selected, but some other value for the other selections?

yeah, no tone on the neck.

[NickHorne]

Thank you.
Simple but great idea!
The more I think it over, the better it gets; it must be very performance-friendly, and I will try it.

[NickHorne]

P.S.
Is the tone pot hardwired across the bridge pup, so it also works for the neck-and-bridge selection?
Or selected by the switch, so it only operates in the bridge-only selection?
Can't quite get my imagination around which would work best under combat conditions....

[louis cyfer]

P.S.
Is the tone pot hardwired across the bridge pup, so it also works for the neck-and-bridge selection?
Or selected by the switch, so it only operates in the bridge-only selection?
Can't quite get my imagination around which would work best under combat conditions....

right now the tone is just wired to the bridge pup. it works fine, but i will put in a superswitch to be able to separate the bridge alone.

[NickHorne]

That sounds good! Thanks.

[louis cyfer]

i have a superswitch in all my s style guitars, takes the tone controls out of the circuit on the 2 and 4 position for some extra quack. works really well. i can also roll back the tone on the bridge without having to effect the bridge/middle position.

[lshines]

Thanks for this thread, guys. I've been trying to decide between a Jr. (korina) or a Deluxe - different from the sc Classic sound, I THOUGHT I needed a P90 or a hb in the mix (see related thread)...'cause, I remember a particular g'tar (mahogany) with Lindy's humless p90's...and I miss that sound! Your conversations here will be put to use!
Linwood

[louis cyfer]

Thanks for this thread, guys. I've been trying to decide between a Jr. (korina) or a Deluxe - different from the sc Classic sound, I THOUGHT I needed a P90 or a hb in the mix (see related thread)...'cause, I remember a particular g'tar (mahogany) with Lindy's humless p90's...and I miss that sound! Your conversations here will be put to use!
Linwood

the fralin humless p90's are really really good. the humbucker sized not so much.

[lshines]

btw - maybe this has something to do with the sound from the different pups: what amp(s) are y'all playing thru?

[louis cyfer]

btw - maybe this has something to do with the sound from the different pups: what amp(s) are y'all playing thru?

a picture is easier.

[lshines]

WHOA! that's quite a wall!
I can make out/guess on a few...what's the one with the decoration on the face?
mind listing them? and a pic of the wall of g'tars!

You'd laugh at my one Swart AST (tho' it's superb!) and my AC4 (quieter so wife doesn't stay too mad at me).

[yowhatsshakin]

louis, now you are just showing off. you really need all of those played, and obviously you don't have the time. if you need any help, i would be willing to sacrifice ...

Oops, plagiarizing somebody else's post ...

- Jos
P.S. What is the amp/head second from the left?

[louis cyfer]

louis, now you are just showing off. you really need all of those played, and obviously you don't have the time. if you need any help, i would be willing to sacrifice ...

Oops, plagiarizing somebody else's post ...

- Jos
P.S. What is the amp/head second from the left?

i have the time, that's why i was offering to sacrifice to help you out. that one is a ceriatone ots 50.

[louis cyfer]

WHOA! that's quite a wall!
I can make out/guess on a few...what's the one with the decoration on the face?
mind listing them? and a pic of the wall of g'tars!

You'd laugh at my one Swart AST (tho' it's superb!) and my AC4 (quieter so wife doesn't stay too mad at me).

59 bassman reissue, ceriatone ots50, epitar valve 30, ampeg 67 reverberocket, 57 tweed deluxe, heritage kenny burrell signature, 40th anniversary limited edition twin, ampeg reverberocket reissue.