G&L's are "known to have bad neck issues" ??

[weezy]

Suddenly after 2 years of enjoying my '08 US made Legacy, I started noticing excessive buzzing and fretting-out on the neck. I raised a few saddles to no avail. So I brought it to my tech - a seriously great tech who's been doing it since the early '80's. He said that G&L's have a reputation for <censored word> necks - he said it was the way they're made. He tweaked it and did a full set-up - it's a lot better now except the D string is a bit sitar-sounding, but I can live with it.

Is this true? He also mentioned something about the patent that they currently have for making the necks is about to expire. Instead of admitting they have been making them wrong for years, they are just changing the method and using the patent expiry as an excuse.

has anyone heard about this?

[darwinohm]

Weezy, First lets address the sitar sound in the d string. This is usually a condition caused by the saddle alignment. I have had it and it is generally easy to fix. The first thing I would do is clamp the saddles as tightly together as I could with my fingers. See if it goes away. This is often a saddle not adjusted properly to the plane of the bridge plate surface. It may be touching the saddle next to it lightly causing the sitar sound. This is a very fixable condition.

Now, lets talk about the neck. If I had a tech tell me that, I can assure you that I would find a new tech. If he had found a problem with your neck, thats another story. First of all I have had 20 G&ls in the last 4 years and still own 13. All of them are built 2000 or later and some of them are new. I also do all my own work and set them up more than twice a year. The necks do change with the season here in Minnesota and the relief changes as much at .008 in. during a season, some more than others. If your action is low they require more frequent adjustments.You mention fretting out. If it is in the high notes you may have developed too much relief (bow) and that will cause fretting out in the high frets. That can be fixed by tightening the truss rod. I have not had neck problems with other that one G&L and that issue was I couldn't tighten the truss rod. It turned out that the truss rod nut wasn't drilled deep enough and a different nut solved the problem. The newer G&Ls i have are some of the most perfect necks that I have seen. I would expect a tech to give me some particulars on why G&L necks are bad other than they have been doing them wrong all along or a patent issue. I think that you have a bad tech and not a bad neck. As for Fender, I have had 18 of them, currently own 14 of them and I do have neck issues with some of them. Hope this helps-- BTW, if you are the original owner and you do have a defective neck, I would look into warranty coverage. Darwin

[Craig]

Weezy, First lets address the sitar sound in the d string. This is usually acondition caused by the saddle alignment. I have had it and it is generally easy to fix. The first thing I would do is clamp the saddles as tightly together as I could with my fingers. See if it goes away. This is often a saddle not adjusted properly to the plane of the bridge plate surface. It may be touching the saddle next to it lightly causing the sitar sound. This is a very fixable condition.

Now, lets talk about the neck. If I had a tech tell me that, I can assure you that I would find a new tech. If he had found a problem with your neck, thats another story. First of all I have had 20 G&ls in the last 4 years and still own 13. All of them are built 2000 or later and some of them are new. I also do all my own work and set them up more than twice a year. The necks do change with the season here in Minnesota and the relief changes as much at .008 in. during a season, some more than others. If your action is low they require more frequent adjustments.You mention fretting out. If it is in the high notes you may have developed too much relief (bow) and that will cause fretting out in the high frets. That can be fixed by tightening the truss rod. I have not had neck problems with other that one G&L and that issue was I couldn't tighten the truss rod. It turned out that the truss rod nut wasn't drilled deep enough and a different nut solved the problem. The newer G&Ls i have are some of the most perfect necks that I have seen. I would expect a tech to give me some particulars on why G&L necks are bad other than they have been doing them wrong all along or a patent issue. I think that you have a bad tech and not a bad neck. As for Fender, I have had 18 of them, currently own 14 of them and I do have neck issues with some of them. Hope this helps-- BTW, if you are the original owner and you do have a defective neck, I would look into warranty coverage. Darwin

+1

I could not say it any better than what Darwin said.

[kev01]

I agree also.. If a neck go's bad it usually happens before the first year due to improper curing of the wood. A two year old guitar to suddenly go south is strange unless it was subject to extreme humidity or climate change. In my 27+ years of repairing guitars G & L necks have been great. Second opinions never hurt I have a friend that is an Ibanez lover and refuses to admit a Wizard neck with a Floyd nut is not a weak spot even though that is the most broken maple neck at the headstock in history. Every tech has their likes and dislikes or better yet they might know the quirks of one brand over another. I know a tech that hates G & L and still calls them a Fender knock off.

[louis cyfer]

Suddenly after 2 years of enjoying my '08 US made Legacy, I started noticing excessive buzzing and fretting-out on the neck. I raised a few saddles to no avail. So I brought it to my tech - a seriously great tech who's been doing it since the early '80's. He said that G&L's have a reputation for <censored word> necks - he said it was the way they're made. He tweaked it and did a full set-up - it's a lot better now except the D string is a bit sitar-sounding, but I can live with it.

Is this true? He also mentioned something about the patent that they currently have for making the necks is about to expire. Instead of admitting they have been making them wrong for years, they are just changing the method and using the patent expiry as an excuse.

has anyone heard about this?

that tech doesn't know much. g&l went from the bi-cut necks to traditional necks in 07. the bi-cut method is one of the best to produce a very stable neck, but the accuracy of manufacturing had to be higher, so there were more necks that went back to the service department. the good necks were very good, but there were more necks that had issues, although those issues presented themselves early on. this is according to john toner. he told me that with the traditional necks they have been doing since 07, he had a lot less necks in for service. yours is the newer neck design. btw, i love bi-cut necks, they are very stable, and they never had issues like fender had with their necks. fender always had a lot of problem with their necks because of lack of supervision and qc at the manufacturing plant.

[Ivo]

When I visited my guitar tech's shop last week, when I had a problem with my truss rod, he said: A problem with the neck of a G&L? He looked at me over his glasses with a face saying 'no way'. It was easily fixed.
They are anything but known for having bad neck issues.

[SouthpawGuy]

Suddenly after 2 years of enjoying my '08 US made Legacy, I started noticing excessive buzzing and fretting-out on the neck. I raised a few saddles to no avail. So I brought it to my tech - a seriously great tech who's been doing it since the early '80's. He said that G&L's have a reputation for <censored word> necks - he said it was the way they're made. He tweaked it and did a full set-up - it's a lot better now except the D string is a bit sitar-sounding, but I can live with it.

Is this true? He also mentioned something about the patent that they currently have for making the necks is about to expire. Instead of admitting they have been making them wrong for years, they are just changing the method and using the patent expiry as an excuse.

has anyone heard about this?

Sounds like you need a new guitar tech.

[weezy]

Thanks for the responses. I was surprised to hear him say what he said about G&L necks - he told me to look it up - but I have googled almost everything there is about G&L's over the years and have never read anything negative like that. Anyways, I didn't want to get defensive because he is a very renowned tech where I live and knows his stuff. The funny thing is that it's the beautiful neck of this guitar that turned me into a G&L player/fan in the first place...

Thanks for the tip too! I'll try to address that D string once and for all today... although the saddles have been played with already - I'll try again.

[Craig]

I brought your post plus Darwin's reply to Steve Grom's (Director of Manufacturing) attention and here is his reply:

HI Craig

In addition to the comment back from one of the members, here's some additional information.

G&L Neck Design

Leo Fender's original design for G&L necks in the very early days was very similar to a Fender neck where the truss rod was installed from the back of the neck and a "skunk stripe" was used to hold the rod in place.

At some point about 1982 (I'm not exactly sure of the year) Leo had the idea of the "bi-cut" neck where the raw neck blank was cut length wise, a slot routed in the side of the larger piece, the truss rod was installed and the two pieces glued back together. This was a very interesting approach to truss rod installation and unique to any other guitar company. The bi-cut necks featured a truss rod that had an arch which matched to the corresponding arch of the slot that had been routed in the neck blank. To note, Fender necks all use a truss rod with an arch.

Over the years of using the bi-cut neck there were some consistency issues that may have been related to the design, the in-house tooling or tolerance issues within the manufacturing process.

Several years ago (6 or 7, I think), the company decided to look at a more tradition method of installing the truss rod in an attempt to gain more consistency with the necks. At that point the truss rod was changed to a straight truss rod that would be installed from the top of the neck .... the fingerboard goes on and covers the rod. The truss rod change had nothing to do with any patent issues; the company was looking at trying to add stability and consistency to the necks. Let it be known, that the vast majority of the bi-cut necks made over the years are still in service and have experienced very few problems.

The neck in question with this member's post that was made in 2008 incorporates the straight truss rod design that had proven to work well for not only G&L, but a number of other foreign and domestic guitar factories.

I would also suggest to this member that someone check the bridge saddles if the "sitar" sound continues. From time to time we experience some variations in the area of the bridge saddles where the string goes over the front of the saddle. If he (or someone) determines the bridge saddles may be creating a problem, please have them contact me directly and we can arrange for replacement saddles.

I hope this information is helpful

Best regards,

Steve Grom

Hope this helps.

[weezy]

This definitely clears up any misinformation I might have received - thank you!

[Craig]

This definitely clears up any misinformation I might have received - thank you!

You are welcome!

Feel free to pass this info on to your tech, too.

[glvourot]

Yet another example of why this is one of the best forums on the net. I'm gonna throw a name out , was the " renowned tech " Paul Iverson? For those curious his name pops up everywhere in the greater Vancouver area ( craigslist etc.... )

[weezy]

Nope, it wasn't Paul... I'd rather not say his name here

I'm pretty sure my neck issues were entirely weather related - the rainy season has begun here in Vancouver. There's still buzzing on the high E and D when playing fretted notes. I'm afraid to adjust anything now though... I have 2 gigs this weekend so I don't want to mess it up again. (Glen Watkins @ Fairview Pub on Saturday for the VanCity folks!)

[suave eddie]

For those in the lower mainland, I just discovered a luthier with stellar recommendations. I needed a setup for my ASAT classic and asked a friend of mine-- one of the more active local guitarists--as to who does his work and he recommended Nicole Alosinac. I won’t be able to give a full report until I pick up my guitar at the end of the week, but don’t take my word for it—Randy Bachman trusts her with his extensive guitar collection—in fact I saw two of his instruments in her shop currently being worked on. She has no anti-G&L bias, and she agreed with me when I said that I felt that the build quality on G&L was on par with the Fender custom shops.

[darwinohm]

Weezy, sorry to come down on you tech so hard but it reminded me of the automobile mechanics in the old days labeling Fords or Chevys or Plymouths junk because of a bad experience they had heard from some else. Anyway, I still have concerns about you G&L based on your last report today. I think that someone with some good savvy needs to look at it. I purchased some tools from StewMac a couple of years ago that are invaluable for diagnosing problems and doing setups. I don't eyeball anything. I believe micrometers and feeler gauges. I believe that by looking at your neck with a straight edge, measuring and adjusting correct relief and a short fret ruler you could very quickly find out what is causing your issues. It is all logic and common sense. I hope that it works okay for the weekend and that you find someone to fix it correctly. I replaced strings on my Misic Man Bass a couple of nights ago and was surprised to see how much going from flatwounds to roundwounds changed the neck relief. Different string tension. Every little change makes a difference.-- Darwin

[louis cyfer]

Thanks for the responses. I was surprised to hear him say what he said about G&L necks - he told me to look it up - but I have googled almost everything there is about G&L's over the years and have never read anything negative like that. Anyways, I didn't want to get defensive because he is a very renowned tech where I live and knows his stuff. The funny thing is that it's the beautiful neck of this guitar that turned me into a G&L player/fan in the first place...

Thanks for the tip too! I'll try to address that D string once and for all today... although the saddles have been played with already - I'll try again.

just because he is a renowned tech, doesn't mean he knows his stuff that well. i have seen many like that. most people don't know what a well set up guitar feels like, they rave about mediocre techs thinking they are great. also this guy obviously has an anti g&l bias, so when something is an issue, he'll blame it on it being a g&l, instead of fixing the problem. i would find a new tech if i were you.

for example people in southern cal rave about Michael Tuttle fretjobs. they are mediocre. i have played many, and my tech fixes a lot of them, often soon after the job was done. he had a very good write up in a guitar mag, and people drink the coolaid.

[Submersible]

Louis, are you in Southern California? I just moved here from SF and I'm looking for a good tech who knows G&Ls.

[El Fug]

Louis, are you in Southern California? I just moved here from SF and I'm looking for a good tech who knows G&Ls.

I take my guitar(s) to John Wescott. He's a nice guy, does quick work, is reasonably priced, and his work is good. I heard about him from this board. He's worked on some of Will Ray's and John Jorgenson's guitars. He's not a G&L expert or specialist or anything, but he's been very compimentary of both of the G&Ls that I had him set up -- a '99 Comanche, which I no longer have, and an '85 S-500.

http://www.wescottguitar.com/

[weezy]

Weezy, sorry to come down on you tech so hard but it reminded me of the automobile mechanics in the old days labeling Fords or Chevys or Plymouths junk because of a bad experience they had heard from some else. Anyway, I still have concerns about you G&L based on your last report today. I think that someone with some good savvy needs to look at it. I purchased some tools from StewMac a couple of years ago that are invaluable for diagnosing problems and doing setups. I don't eyeball anything. I believe micrometers and feeler gauges. I believe that by looking at your neck with a straight edge, measuring and adjusting correct relief and a short fret ruler you could very quickly find out what is causing your issues. It is all logic and common sense. I hope that it works okay for the weekend and that you find someone to fix it correctly. I replaced strings on my Misic Man Bass a couple of nights ago and was surprised to see how much going from flatwounds to roundwounds changed the neck relief. Different string tension. Every little change makes a difference.-- Darwin

Thanks for the insight Darwin. I am definitely looking to purchase some guitar tools for all the reasons you mentioned plus to save some $$. S-style guitars are so fiddly compared to stop-tail types, so it makes sense to get the tools if you own one.

[weezy]

just because he is a renowned tech, doesn't mean he knows his stuff that well. i have seen many like that. most people don't know what a well set up guitar feels like, they rave about mediocre techs thinking they are great. also this guy obviously has an anti g&l bias, so when something is an issue, he'll blame it on it being a g&l, instead of fixing the problem. i would find a new tech if i were you.

You are correct 100%. I will definitely find a new tech without the bias.

[louis cyfer]

Louis, are you in Southern California? I just moved here from SF and I'm looking for a good tech who knows G&Ls.

yes i am. what area are you in? my tech actually used to do fretjobs for the g&l factory when people wanted frets that were not normally offered. usually endorsed players.

he also lets you watch him work on the guitar. i have run into techs who did not like that. i like to know that they are not doing thing to the guitars that they don't like to be seen.

[louis cyfer]

Louis, are you in Southern California? I just moved here from SF and I'm looking for a good tech who knows G&Ls.

I take my guitar(s) to John Wescott. He's a nice guy, does quick work, is reasonably priced, and his work is good. I heard about him from this board. He's worked on some of Will Ray's and John Jorgenson's guitars. He's not a G&L expert or specialist or anything, but he's been very compimentary of both of the G&Ls that I had him set up -- a '99 Comanche, which I no longer have, and an '85 S-500.

http://www.wescottguitar.com/

i checked out his website. the prices are very reasonable. the turnaround time seems very fast. my guy has so many guitars at his shop that need work, turnaround is definitely longer. he doesn't even take new clients unless they are referred by people he knows well.

[suave eddie]

Just got my ASAT Classic back after a setup by Nicole.
Completely satisfied. She is very thorough and competent IMO. Quick turnaround and reasonable. She watches you play to get an idea of your attack and style.
One thing she did was replace the post on my string tree with a slightly shorter one--she felt there was not enough downward angle. I would never have considered that.

Weezy, if you still need to tweak your setup and want to try a different tech, check her out--she's off of Commercial and Hastings, by appointment only.

[Submersible]

Louis, are you in Southern California? I just moved here from SF and I'm looking for a good tech who knows G&Ls.

yes i am. what area are you in? my tech actually used to do fretjobs for the g&l factory when people wanted frets that were not normally offered. usually endorsed players.

he also lets you watch him work on the guitar. i have run into techs who did not like that. i like to know that they are not doing thing to the guitars that they don't like to be seen.

Sorry, lost power for couple of days and couldn't check the thread! I'm in Pasadena.

It's great when you find tech who will let you look over his shoulder while he works. Stephen White in Berkeley used to do that for me: http://www.guitartech.us/

[louis cyfer]

Louis, are you in Southern California? I just moved here from SF and I'm looking for a good tech who knows G&Ls.

yes i am. what area are you in? my tech actually used to do fretjobs for the g&l factory when people wanted frets that were not normally offered. usually endorsed players.

he also lets you watch him work on the guitar. i have run into techs who did not like that. i like to know that they are not doing thing to the guitars that they don't like to be seen.

Sorry, lost power for couple of days and couldn't check the thread! I'm in Pasadena.

It's great when you find tech who will let you look over his shoulder while he works. Stephen White in Berkeley used to do that for me: http://www.guitartech.us/

i am in monrovia. i think we got it even worse than you. my tech is in covina. not far. if you'd like i'll pm you the info.

[Boogie Bill]

Couple of other things to check.

Be sure your gutiar is kept in an environment with 45 to 55% Relative Humidity.

Got a buzzzzz....? Make sure you check that the saddle height screws have positive pressure (clockwise rotation) on them. Same for the truss rod nut. And check your tuner collar nuts. Snug them, but DO NOT over-tighten.

And make sure that no part of the double wrap of the ball end of the string is touching anywhere near the apex of the saddle. Usually, that is a sign that the bridge is setup poorly. I use Fender Super Bullet strings. Since they have no double wrap, this is never an issue.

And you need a new tech. Knock on wood--I've never had an issue with any of the necks on my G&Ls. I've owned one since about 1994, and I currently have 17 G&Ls.

Bill

[smurph1]

Suddenly after 2 years of enjoying my '08 US made Legacy, I started noticing excessive buzzing and fretting-out on the neck. I raised a few saddles to no avail. So I brought it to my tech - a seriously great tech who's been doing it since the early '80's. He said that G&L's have a reputation for <censored word> necks - he said it was the way they're made. He tweaked it and did a full set-up - it's a lot better now except the D string is a bit sitar-sounding, but I can live with it.

Is this true? He also mentioned something about the patent that they currently have for making the necks is about to expire. Instead of admitting they have been making them wrong for years, they are just changing the method and using the patent expiry as an excuse.

has anyone heard about this?

Sounds like you need a new guitar tech.

I Would agree..I've only owned two G&L's (Both ASAT's) and still have one..It needs occasional adjustment, but the are made of wood..So it's only natural..But the thing kicks ass and plays like a dream.. It's a 2011..

[sirmyghin]

Weezy,


I will only chime in on the Sitar'ing. In my experience, with the saddle lock bridge, this is inded a saddle issue. What it is, when happening to me, is one screw of the 2 screw saddle, is not making solid contact with the bridge (achieved easily when you lock em all together), this screw is then rattling). I take my little saddle wrench out and very lightly try to turn each saddle screw, if one was loose, you will know it. I feel the saddle lock portion exemplifies this, as the saddles are sandwiched and cannot move on their own to take care of it. But the saddle lock bridge is amazing and extremely comfortable, I wouldn't change anything, except the angle the strings enter from the rear (bending the string a bit heps but is tedius, I often use my floyd rose spring puller to snag em up.

Good luck getting it cleared up! I can't help with techs as I have never used one, and have been my own tech out of necessity as long as I have been playing.

[jacksonmoon]

I think your tech is referring to the straight truss rods installed in Musicman necks that CLF (possibly sanctioned by George Fullerton, according to Forrest White) during the Tom Walker/CLF stand off in the 80's. Truss rods are installed with a curve to enable adjustment (we all know that). It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure a straight truss rod cannot be adjusted. I would be very surprised if any G&L guitars were fitted with straight rods.

[replyman]

Well, the "piano wire" truss comes to mind... No probs so far w/ my 90's G&L's.

[wrigman]

Well since everyone is giving their guitar tech love up here, I take my stuff to Paul Stebner in Tustin. I've had him do frett work for me and warranty work on guitars. He is always fair on his prices and does great work. This for all you in the O.C. and surrounding area.

Oh! I too have a sitar issue with my Legacy. I move the saddle around and it goes away until I throw a monster bend on the string, then I have to move the string on the saddle. After seeing Mr. Grohm's statement, I may call them and take the guitar by the factory for a couple of replacement saddles.
Thanks guy's!