LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

This is the place where the Lunch Reports will be posted.
Michael-GnL-Michael
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LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by Michael-GnL-Michael »

There will be an LR by lunch time today for at least half the world (It's just after midnight PST).

At some point I'll be killing my appetite with some crackers, a banana and maybe a raw carrot.

Expect horrid imperfection and this might even look pretty good.

With five questions and a few topics to touch upon....please find something and chime in.....


"Chasing tone" is often used pejoratively as if finding your voice of choice were fruitless and never-ending. Yet if you care at all about the sound of your instrument you spend some time and probably some money focusing on tone. Some people are eclectic while others attempt to duplicate one musician's sound…….probably from a song or album rather than the gear and settings the musician actually uses. (Who has the opportunity to see the gear and settings up close?)

#1. What are some examples of tones you really love and try to explain what it is that you like so much about them?

I don't have time to give an answer to this one.


G&L Topic:

Rustic / Roadworn: Paying top dollar for brand new beat up gear while something fairly new with scratches, chips, dings, and pitting from actual use over time is less desirable in the marketplace? G&L has not been around long enough to have any authentically vintage/worn instruments, broadly speaking. There are no 1950's G&Ls. This is one category where G&L exists as an imitation Fender.

#2 What do you think of the Rustic concept?

I don't get it at all.

Alternatively, I want to throw out a complment to G&L for all of the fine finishes being offered. The finishes may very well be enough for me to ignore that serial number plate. :searching:


Non G&L Topic:

Effects / Stompboxes

#3 What was the first effect you heard in person hooked up to a guitar that made a strong impression on you?

Mine was the Maestro Phase Shifter. It was one of the first phase shifters. This was the mid 70's. It was operated with your hands with knob/switches but there was an optional foot switch available as well. It could either rest on a flat surface or be mounted on a microphone stand. It did not have many options. They had switches not dials but each could build upon the other to achieve about 6? different variations.

Image


In my mind there are two types of phase shifters. Those that sound like shweeeeoooooo shweeeeooooo in a cylindrical spiral and those that sort of splash and reverberate like water. The Maestro sounded like the water. An example that comes close is what Peter Frampton used in Lines On My Face for the live version on Frampton Comes Alive. I know he was combining a phase shifter with a Leslie rotating speaker cabinet but the result is a close approximation of the Maestro Phase Shifter effect.

Anyway I had not learned to play guitar at the time. A friend was very very good and we would go down to a guitar shop in town and I would watch and listen mesmerized by his playing. He knew most songs I requested. He tested out a lot of gear but the Maestro took the prize. It conjured images of rippling water and a rainbow of colors as he played. I have since grown relatively numb compared to the impressions something like the Maestro left me with.


Back then it was routine for small crowds of musicians to hang out on the weekend at this guitar shop. People would grab the goods off the display shelves and sit around the isles jamming on new Les Pauls and Strats. Only the rare collector gear was off limits. Eventually the owners decided this was not to their advantage and the jam sessions stopped and trying out gear was restricted to what has become common practice just about everywhere today.

Beyond listening and imagining with the radio, records or sometimes television and movies, this was my introduction to guitar playing up close and personal.

#4. What was your introduction to guitar playing up close and personal?


I recall asking one of the owners of this shop if he knew what a musician used to achieve a certain sound. He offered a discouraging response something like, "50000 watts, 20 years of playing, custom this and that." Had he only known the money to be made by having the correct answer and stocking it in his shop.

I was asking about Robin Trower's rig (effects also used by David Gilmour, Santana and others), specifically the Shin-ei Univibe, only I could not find anyone that new what he used. I did not have a name for it. No one sold any vibe effect where I checked. All you saw that had any resemblance were phase shifters which were just coming out at the time. In fact I only learned of the Uni-vibe about two years ago. I am just returning to playing guitar after 25 years and not looking closely at gear. Now they are everywhere…….clones at least. When I was actively playing no one sold a vibe type effect.

Image

Final question:

#5 Is there a favorite effect that you have or would like?

Mine is the Neo Ventilator. It is either this or an actual Leslie rotating speaker cabinet. These are the only thing that get the rotating speaker sound right.

Image


I apologize for the commercial aspect of the following video but stick around for the performance at the end. Lance Keltner uses the Ventilator effect as tastefully as can be done. It is a great jam, he has a great tone and plays slide guitar quite well.


[youtube]0rJumySTfuc[/youtube]

.........wish I could tune up this post.
jdavies
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by jdavies »

First Time lunch poster
May be my first post
Regarding roadworn...
I was just in Christchurch NZ for a world cup game. We had tickets to 2 games before the earthquake but our friends we were staying with managed to get a substitute game in Dunedin.
Anyway our friends managed to spot an earthquake damaged tribute Legacy HB on auction which had only a little cosmetic damage to the bottom rear. Bidding was for NZ only (I live in Perth Australia) but knowing I would get there to pick it up I managed to score a bargain. Not many playable Earthquake worn guitars out there for collectors I reckon.
I have a Will Ray tribute and a L2500 Tribute with Z3 preamp (amonst others) and now a nice tremelo fitted guitar for those wobbly notes and dives - Im getting hooked on these G & Ls for sure - even if they are the models for the masses.

cheers
Jeremy
( lunch was a ham cheese and green tomato pickle roll made by me lovely wife)
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Aussie
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by Aussie »

Hey Michael ... thanks for stepping in and keeping things rolling.

Man ... I think you've just about posted a weeks worth of LR material in one go :shock: .

#1. What are some examples of tones you really love
So many tones I love but I keep coming back to the raw, driving feel of this -
[youtube]7KF2ZI9MdVg[/youtube]

Same gear ... different player ...
[youtube]tCknR6Vzbzk[/youtube]

#2 What do you think of the Rustic concept? No big deal ... its just another finish option. Probably an inevitable consequence of the durability of modern finishes where some good old school natural wear isn't going to happen any time soon.

#3 What was the first effect you heard in person hooked up to a guitar that made a strong impression on you? Dad didn't use pedals or effects other than a bit of anp reverb. Funny you should refer to a Maestro. The first "toy" I ever played with in the early 70s was a Gibson Maestro multi effects pedal. In retrospect and with the benefit of far greater knowledge, it probably wasn't all that special but it was the one that opened by mind to the possibilities. I've never seen one since though.

#4. What was your introduction to guitar playing up close and personal? My father played guitar in 50's rock'n'roll bands before I was born ... and for a long time afterwards.

#5 Is there a favorite effect that you have or would like? Not much I'm pining for , but since you raised the Leslie sound I have been keeping my eyes open for one of the Yamaha RA speakers since katefan mentioned them in his LR's a few weeks back.
jdavies wrote:I live in Perth Australia
Hey Jeremy ... with you, Stagecoach and me ... plus Blarg who used to live here ... that mkes four of us. Not bad for an isolated city thats a three and a half hour commerciial jet flight from the nearest G&L dealer! Sounds like you scored on that Legacy HB.

cheers, Robbie
"Knowledge Speaks, Wisdom Listens" - Jimi Hendrix
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blargfromouterspace
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by blargfromouterspace »

Good on you for stepping up to the mic, Michael. Some nice questions too!

And Robbie thanks for posting that Magic Sam clip again, I tried to find it a little while ago but failed. I love it!!!

1. What are some examples of tones you really love and try to explain what it is that you like so much about them?

I like clean guitar tones more than dirty ones. I love that ubiquitous jazz guitar sound - clean, smoky, elegant. Think Wes Montgomery. I like country telecaster sounds that aren't masked beneath 10 tonnes of compression and other processing a'la Brent Mason. I love the sound of single coil guitars through a powerful 6L6 powered amp. I can't wait to get a Twin one day... soon.


2 What do you think of the Rustic concept?

It's a load of toss.


What was the first effect you heard in person hooked up to a guitar that made a strong impression on you?

TREMOLO!!!


What was your introduction to guitar playing up close and personal?

My Dad plays guitar so there was always one in the living room. I remember one night the Nirvana 'Unplugged' concert was on TV and that's when I started taking an interest in it.


Is there a favorite effect that you have or would like?

TREMOLO!!! One thing I always love to have is a tremolo. I was without one for a couple of weeks and didn't like that one bit. The only other thing I'll always have is a clean boost pedal, they're great to bump your level up for solos. Anything else is just for show. Except for reverb of course. Gotta love reverb, especially with tremolo.

That Ventilator thing looks nice. A keyboard player I know has this thing the size of a couple of pizza boxes stacked on top of one another that is like a mini-Leslie cabinet, with a spinning bit in it and everything. Damned if I can remember what it's called. He has a real Leslie too, and that sounds incredible.

I don't trust that Lance Keltner fella, he always looks insincere :think:
-Jamie
zombywoof
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by zombywoof »

I would say my favorite sound is hands down Dave Lindley's lap steel on Jackson Brown's "Running on Empty." The guy is an amazing player.

The Rustic/Worn thing - Never owned one of those store-bought relic jobs but, if well done, I tend to like the worn finish look. Probably because eveything I own has been down the road a piece with me and shows every mile put on them and so I feel more comforatbel with a guitar with some wear than one that is shiney and new looking.

As far as FX I heard a long time back and still love - easy one - a bit of slapback echo.
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Kit
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by Kit »

blargfromouterspace wrote:TREMOLO!!! One thing I always love to have is a tremolo. I was without one for a couple of weeks and didn't like that one bit. The only other thing I'll always have is a clean boost pedal, they're great to bump your level up for solos. Anything else is just for show. Except for reverb of course. Gotta love reverb, especially with tremolo.
Here's an amp that has beautiful tremolo and reverb. I got one a few years ago and am still in awe sometimes when I play it. I don't know how available this would be in Australia though:

http://swartamps.com/sounds-AST_greg_v.htm

Kit
bassman
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by bassman »

Favorite guitar tones: I like Zapcosongs SC-2 through my Pro Reverb, but I have to give him his guitar back someday soon. LOL
I really like the tones gotten by the great blues players. It really is dependent on the player.

Maestro Fuzz Tone- 1964-5 , A friend of mine has an original with the cord attached. He once hooked it up backwards and his 335 sounded like a trumpet!
Maestro Phase Shifter- I first heard it in 1972 in a music store being tested by the violinist in the group "Seatrain". It was a dramatic first impression.

Relic/rustiic guitars: I like real relicsmore thatn the manufactured ones, but I can see the allure of a worn in guitar or bass that feels just right. I don't think I would pay the upcharge for one. I like my new instruments to look new.
If thine enemy wrong thee, buy each of his children a drum.
http://www.rags.ws
http://www.capitalbluesensemble.com
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darwinohm
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by darwinohm »

Favorite tones?-- Clean with a touch of delay.

I looked at a new Legacy Rustic in White Blonde. It was really a Rat. If I had worn in one like that it may be okay. To me it was overly priced and all beat to Hell with a new fretboard. It will not be here anytime soon. Need I say more?

Stompboxes, Steve our lead player uses my Vocalist Live 4 and it does some neat stuff. I really like delay if used properly and a touch of good reverb is also sweet.

Bassman, when you are done with Zaps SC-2 send her to Minnesota for a test drive. We should be able to have it back by this time next year. :shocked003: -- Darwin
Last edited by darwinohm on Wed Sep 28, 2011 4:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Philby
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by Philby »

Tones: I like all manner of guitar tones from clean jazz through to noisy distortion a la Radiohead. The most important thing is that the player does something interesting with their tone that complements the song. The first guitar tone I came to recognise and admire was Brian May from Queen, then Lindsay Buckingham from Fleetwood Mac.

Rustic Thang: The real beaten up look doesn't appeal to me at all. But I like some of the thin nitro finishes that Fender and Gibson are doing on some models, and the natural finished necks they're using.

Effects/Stompboxes: I got into guitar in the early 80's so chorus and delay were the first 2 effects I ever heard in action at a music store. I bought a Boss digital delay shortly after and it's about the only effect I ever use consistently. My Vox AC15 has a nice tremolo that I like to use now and again too.

Darwin, when you've finished with Zap's SC-2 would you mind sending it down here? I've never seen one in the flesh. I'll send it back, honest I will. ;)
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by zapcosongs »

bassman wrote:Favorite guitar tones: I like Zapcosongs SC-2 through my Pro Reverb, but I have to give him his guitar back someday soon. LOL
Bastid!!!!

Actually, I would love to hear that one (or any of my G&L guitars) through your Pro Reverb.

We actually may have to mail that SC to Darwin. It's red, after all. And old :greet: Ha!

Hey zombywoof, great to see you post. Of course, I well recall your little fondle of that fine guitar!

Image

How you been, buddy? Miss you! I'll check in with you soon.

(Back to our regular program now)

Favorite Tones: I love the sound of Brian May's rig. Yeah, I know that it's very processed and all, but he is an exceptional player with a distinctively powerful tone that just moves me for some reason.

The Rustic/Roadworn thing: Not for me, but to each his own. Maybe if I'd actually touched one....who knows.

Effects: First pedal I ever tried moved me. Still have my Vox King Wah. Going strong too, but the pot needs cleaning.

Yikes! Gotta go feed the kids now. I'll finish up here later if I get the chance. Great questions today. Thanks! - ed
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blargfromouterspace
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by blargfromouterspace »

Kit wrote:Here's an amp that has beautiful tremolo and reverb. I got one a few years ago and am still in awe sometimes when I play it. I don't know how available this would be in Australia though:

http://swartamps.com/sounds-AST_greg_v.htm

Kit
My favourite store carries those. If they made a bigger one, say 50W, I'd probably have one.
Philby wrote:Darwin, when you've finished with Zap's SC-2 would you mind sending it down here? I've never seen one in the flesh. I'll send it back, honest I will. ;)
Seeing as it will be in Melbourne I might as well have a lend of that SC-2 too!
-Jamie
zapcosongs
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by zapcosongs »

Oh, why the hell not? Enjoy! - ed
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KenC
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by KenC »

#1 - Tones:

I've played around a lot with pedals over the years, but never found any electric guitar tones that satisfied me until I bought my first G&L last fall. I went through a couple of amps since then, and have found the magic I've always wanted in a Roland Jazz Chorus (with a good compressor, a little bit of chorus, and any G&L without large MFDs) or a Blues Junior (especially with an ASAT or SC-2).

On electric bass I've never really had to think about this. Back in '82 I traded a used Strat for a shiny new Fender Bassman 10, to go with my genuinely beat-to-crap Jazz Bass. The amp and the Strat were both worth about $400 at the time, and I had no room to complain about the deal. Now the guitar is probably worth $4000, and the amp is worth about $350. I still don't complain about the deal, though. That amp with my old Jazz Bass or SB-1 gives the perfect growl for my playing, and has handled small clubs and outdoor events. I live with perpetual GAS, but have not given a serious thought to changing my bass rig in almost thirty years. Truth be told, the only reason I was looking at basses the day I found the SB-1 was that I wanted a lighter instrument to use for band practices.

#2 - Wanton mangling of otherwise good guitars:

I just can't see the point to the whole "road worn" fad. Several of my Leo-era instruments have 20+ years worth of dings around the edges, and the Superhawk's finish is worn clear through to the wood from pick contact, but nothing that comes close to the faux aging I see on recent Fenders. The worst is the amateur "rustic-ing" I've seen on used instruments. I just picked up a '94 MIM Duo Sonic (22.7" scale) for my son to start learning chords on. The previous owner's rustic-ing was nothing short of vandalism - not just the typical belt sanding around the contours, but even drilling various holes to make it look like it had been modded over the years. I'm not a fan of parting out guitars, but I honestly just bought this one for the neck and the bridge. Everything else (body included) will need replacement to make it stable enough to intonate and play. That's how badly it had been mangled.

I'm not a big fan of anything Fender has done in the past twenty years. I have played a couple of very nice American Standard or Delux Strats and Teles, but otherwise it seems like they are in the business of licensing guitars that look like old Fender products. Maybe the relic-ing is just the natural evolution of this trend.

#3 - First inspiring effect:

I honestly can't remember. When I was just starting out, effects were not in my budget.

#4 - Intro to up-close playing:

One of my circle of guitar-playing friends when I had just started out was an incredible player named Jody Porter. He was a couple of years younger than me and played in a band with my best friend's little brother. He was only 12 or 13, but was already playing out in non-alcoholic clubs and music stores in Charleston SC. We would get together occasionally at his house, in which his father had a full-blown studio stocked with vintage instruments (I think I remember 1950s Les Pauls and pre-CBS Strats laying around). At that point he was playing any solo he wanted to note-for-note, without cheating, and I probably put down my bass in the middle of most songs just to listen to him go on.

I haven't spoken to him since I headed off to college, but he ended up playing lead guitar in Fountains of Wayne. I noticed his name recently on the G&L artists page, too.

#5 - Favorite effects:

Most of the time I just run straight into my Blues Junior these days (maybe with an EHX Pulsar tremolo if the mood strikes), but when I drift toward experimental music or listen to too much Sonic Youth the Jazz Chorus and other toys come out. The one pedal that provides endless fun at these times is an Antenna, by CoPilot FX. It pretty much defies description, but it can go from a really tinny, thin distortion to something just this side of ring modulation. The first time I tried this pedal it took about thirty minutes to get anything remotely close to musical out of it, but ever since then any twist of the knobs seems to sound good. Maybe I've just learned to adjust my playing to the pedal instead of the other way around. At some point I'll probably indulge in a couple of other CoPilot pedals. I've also been mulling over a basic synthesizer for a while now - not the traditional keyboard, but a small box with a bank of oscillators and a couple of knobs. I can't really describe the sound I want to get, other than to say that it would have layers of oscillator drones washing back and forth over the guitar. Maybe for a winter recording project...

Ken C
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sam
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by sam »

Hey Michael some great stuff here.

#1. What are some examples of tones you really love and try to explain what it is that you like so much about them?
Tone wise I chase from Jerry Garcia to Eric Johnson to Steve Vai, depends on mood. Generally stay in the single coil mode these days.

#2 What do you think of the Rustic concept?
All marketing and cost more than worth to me.

#3 What was the first effect you heard in person hooked up to a guitar that made a strong impression on you?
While I am a distortion/overdrive fan, the phase shifter was the first that said something different to me.

#4. What was your introduction to guitar playing up close and personal?
A babysitter at a young age would play for me and as an early music fan guitar seemed to be the way to go.

#5 Is there a favorite effect that you have or would like?
The ZVEX line is very intriguing. Would REALLY like to get a Wah Probe, love the antenna control.

Ed, we all want yer SC!! :alright:
Cya,
Sam
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by zapcosongs »

Hey Ken -

Your recovery from that surgical joint reconstruction still on track? - ed
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KenC
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by KenC »

Ed,

Not sure whether you meant me or a different Ken. Fortunately I haven't had anything done to joints, but I did have a small chunk of forehead removed last week to get rid of skin cancer. The stitches are out and it feels fine now - just an occasional twinge as the nerves heal. The doctor thinks there won't even be a scar left by winter.

Thanks for asking!

Ken

ps - Use sunscreen!!!
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by zapcosongs »

Ken -
I always thought your head was a tad too large anyway ;+).

In all seriousness though, I did not know of your medical issue and hope (and trust) that everything will work out great.

My problem is that I enjoy a couple of vodkas in the evening from time to time, and thought I was responding to Ken Baker. The fact that your post was not more bass-oriented should have bin a tip-off, but there you go.

Please forgive me, be well, and rock on! - ed
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suave eddie
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by suave eddie »

#1. What are some examples of tones you really love and try to explain what it is that you like so much about them?

Couple of Peter Green in his prime.....no effects that I know of--just guitar and amp.

[youtube]QeOKj5XdVAE[/youtube]

[youtube]V7XCwC6WdJs[/youtube]


Some old Robin Trower in Procol Harum....once again no effects that I am aware of. Solos start at about 1:20 and 3:28.

[youtube]QA4-VWgYHSw[/youtube]


And one of my favorite guitarists of all time (some of the younger ones here may not be familiar) John Cippolina
[youtube]Aw1a4NZ0qAs[/youtube]
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Katefan
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by Katefan »

Nice LR!

Cool Maestro Stage Phaser! I've had a few of them over the years and they sound great. Zeppelin used them quite a bit and that's most likely what is used on the Rover.

Here's a cool rare phase pedal that sonically sits somewhere btw a rototating spkr, a MXR phase 45 & a univibe. I just put it up for sale here on Trade Me (Reikigirl is my girflfriend's handle) but it didnt sell this time round tho.
I've only stumbled across one other in my travels... japanese made & obviously competing with MXR...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =410091138

Don't like rustic, relic or faux finished guitars but I dig worn in & well played axes...

Cheers,

Kf
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Katefan
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by Katefan »

Nice LR!

Cool Maestro Stage Phaser! I've had a few of them over the years and they sound great. Zeppelin used them quite a bit and that's most likely what is used on the Rover.

Here's a cool rare phase pedal that sonically sits somewhere btw a rototating spkr, a MXR phase 45 & a univibe. I just put it up for sale here on Trade Me (Reikigirl is my girflfriend's handle) but it didnt sell this time round tho.
I've only stumbled across one other in my travels... japanese made & obviously competing with MXR...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =410091138

Don't like rustic, relic or faux finished guitars but I dig worn in & well played axes...

Cheers,

Kf
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Katefan
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by Katefan »

Nice LR!

Cool Maestro Stage Phaser! I've had a few of them over the years and they sound great. Zeppelin used them quite a bit and that's most likely what is used on the Rover.

Here's a cool rare phase pedal that sonically sits somewhere btw a rototating spkr, a MXR phase 45 & a univibe. I just put it up for sale here on Trade Me (Reikigirl is my girflfriend's handle) but it didnt sell this time round tho.
I've only stumbled across one other in my travels... japanese made & obviously competing with MXR...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =410091138

Don't like rustic, relic or faux finished guitars but I dig worn in & well played axes...

Cheers,

Kf
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Katefan
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by Katefan »

Nice LR!

Cool Maestro Stage Phaser! I've had a few of them over the years and they sound great. Zeppelin used them quite a bit and that's most likely what is used on the Rover.

Here's a cool rare phase pedal that sonically sits somewhere btw a rototating spkr, a MXR phase 45 & a univibe. I just put it up for sale here on Trade Me (Reikigirl is my girflfriend's handle) but it didnt sell this time round tho.
I've only stumbled across one other in my travels... japanese made & obviously competing with MXR...
http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing ... =410091138

Don't like rustic, relic or faux finished guitars but I dig worn in & well played axes...

Cheers,

Kf
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willross
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Re: LR.......Wednesday September 28, 2011

Post by willross »

I dig those earlier effects. There is a music shop near me that has a huge collection of "old" stuff. My oldest, besides a modded Dunlop wah, is a first run Zoom 505Guitar. You can do a lot with it...

Rustic? As long as it is actually a working instrument. This "false economy" business is getting out of hand. It all started with fake jewelry and handbags; thanks Chinatown.


Cheers,

Will