Hey G&L: it's time to update the ASAT input jack

[johnnyqb]

the input jack on the ASAT is a serious liability. I have owned some gorgeous ASATs, and always have to deal with the looseness of the connection right at the jack. This is roughly akin to having a great car with bad tires. It would be such an easy fix to make ASATs stock with a more traditional "snap-in" feel jack to it. It is really mind boggling why G&L has not done this. I and a lot of other people literally do not own an ASAT today because of that lame input jack. I'm not gonna take it anymore (but want it to change so I can get another ASAT)!

[Craig]

the input jack on the ASAT is a serious liability. I have owned some gorgeous ASATs, and always have to deal with the looseness of the connection right at the jack. This is roughly akin to having a great car with bad tires. It would be such an easy fix to make ASATs stock with a more traditional "snap-in" feel jack to it. It is really mind boggling why G&L has not done this. I and a lot of other people literally do not own an ASAT today because of that lame input jack. I'm not gonna take it anymore (but want it to change so I can get another ASAT)!

First of all, it's the output jack that you are talking about.

I would check your cables to make sure they have true 1/4" ends.
See this thread anyone ever have the g&l barrel jack go bad? for a previous discussion about this.

Hope this helps.

[yowhatsshakin]

Hi Johnny,

I heard this complaint before and it has been attributed to the brand of cable one is using. You can do a search on this forum and fined numerous posts on this subject. And the list of 'suspect' brands includes the one that I have been using forever: Monster. But I have 23 ASAT's ranging from '85 Broadcasters to a '09 C.L.F. Centennial, with a heavily played '99 Classic amongst them, and I have never had problems with any of the output jacks. Nor has a jack ever come loose which has happened on my '96 Legacy Special.

Just to provide some contrary data for balance.

- Jos

[NickHorne]

I hope this isn't too off-topic..
When an Asat jack socket eventually ages, as all sockets must, I believe there is a special service tool that is needed to swap it out for a new one.
Am I right about this? And, if so, is the tool available to owners, and where from?

[Craig]

I hope this isn't too off-topic..
When an Asat jack socket eventually ages, as all sockets must, I believe there is a special service tool that is needed to swap it out for a new one.
Am I right about this? And, if so, is the tool available to owners, and where from?

See this post in the Knowledgebase, G&L Tech Tips sub-forum: How do I remove the output jack from my ASAT-style guitar?

Hope this helps.

[Michael-GnL-Michael]

I am certain that a few "lame input jacks" that are "serious liabilities" exist calling themselves guitar players.

[Ken Baker]

I hope this isn't too off-topic..
When an Asat jack socket eventually ages, as all sockets must, I believe there is a special service tool that is needed to swap it out for a new one.
Am I right about this? And, if so, is the tool available to owners, and where from?

Yes! There is a tool, but I don't think I'd classify it as a "special service tool". There are actually a few tools required, but all are of the common variety.



Yup, the common, everyday, run-of-the-mill, seen-one-seen-'em-all Easy-Out. Available at better hardware stores damn near everywhere.

There's even a pictorial that shows how to do the replacement. Yes, it's a bass. But it's a G&L bass and the jack is pretty much the same. The ASAT guitar is covered.

Ken...

[johnnyqb]

I am certain that a few "lame input jacks" that are "serious liabilities" exist calling themselves guitar players.

Very helpful, Michael.

[johnnyqb]

the input jack on the ASAT is a serious liability. I have owned some gorgeous ASATs, and always have to deal with the looseness of the connection right at the jack. This is roughly akin to having a great car with bad tires. It would be such an easy fix to make ASATs stock with a more traditional "snap-in" feel jack to it. It is really mind boggling why G&L has not done this. I and a lot of other people literally do not own an ASAT today because of that lame input jack. I'm not gonna take it anymore (but want it to change so I can get another ASAT)!

First of all, it's the output jack that you are talking about.

I would check your cables to make sure they have true 1/4" ends.
See this thread anyone ever have the g&l barrel jack go bad? for a previous discussion about this.

Hope this helps.

thanks, but it does not really address the question. First, they are called input jacks as often as output jacks, and everyone knows what is meant. Second, my point would be that Fender guitars do not need to have an "avoid these cables" list, which to me just points out that the G&L ones are fickle in this regard. Another poster pointed out that if you loop your cable through the strap, you may not have the issue, and that tactic certainly helps; but again, the point of my post is, why does G&L use this "output jack" assembly that simply does not seem as good as the more classic one used by Fender and basically every tele-clone builder you will find? I am not looking for an answer that says, "yes, well, G&Ls are better than teles and tele clones. Instead, I am looking for a reasoned answer as to how the G&L version could possibly be seen by the G&L designers as preferable to the other one. I really want to know.

[Ahryn]

Same reason why Teles generally use the same ashtray bridge, Leo designed it that way.

Now the body mount jack may not have taken off the way Leo would have hoped and I don't know how prevalent overseas cable manufacturing was during the 80's but it wasn't exactly designed for 6mm plugs that many overseas cable manufacturers use.

So just like how Jazzmasters were originally designed for flat round strings the body mount jack was designed for good old fashioned 1/4 plugs, like the ones Neutrik and G&H uses (personal experience here both work just fine with the ASAT jack even if the Neutrik is closer to 6mm then 1/4).

For myself I just accept the body mount jack as just another unique piece of kit on my ASAT and all the cables I own but one (which was pretty crappy anyway) are either using a Neutrik or G&H input jack.

But if you find that the body mount is really not for you nobody is saying you shouldn't change it out for a jack that you find more your style, just don't expect G&L to follow suite because of your own preferences.

In short if your tires are bad either put new ones on (i.e. change the jack) or check you tire pressure and make sure you are not running a little flat (i.e. try a different cable).

[Jim P]

Sorry folks, but I'm with Johnny all the way on this one, as I'm sure a fair share of the long-time G&LDP members would be, too. Seriously, this has been a complaint for many, many years now. I've owned several ASATs where I've had to replace the "output" jack, and in comparison with my other guitars, it's been an ongoing problem where as my other instruments haven't had these issues. Both Heritage and Hamer installed the same or similar jacks for many years, too, and you'll often hear the very same complaints on their respective forums as well. Funny, but in place of these flimsy jacks, Heritage now uses a Gibson Les Paul style output jack while Hamer uses the Electrosocket jack as commonly seen on many modern Teles and other guitars. I sense that both of these companies have done this for good reason.

[westsideduck]

Yep, tired of the same old lame excuses.

[blargfromouterspace]

First of all, it's the output jack that you are talking about.

Strictly speaking its actually a socket or jack socket - the jack is the thing at the end of your cable. But let's not be too pedantic

Let's face it, all jacks/sockets have their problems. I recall having problems continuously with my old strats. The nut on the socket would come loose frequently. An easy fix, yes, but still something you don't want at a gig. Same story with the Gibson Les Paul style socket - a friend has that mod on his telecaster and he is forever tightening it. Those ones on the new Fenders, the locking type, are really good, but I don't imagine that the locking mechanism will last longer than it takes for an ASAT socket to go bad. The old fashioned 'cup' style things are terrible and don't work with cables with thick protective stuff on the jacks (Planet Waves, Neutrik etc).

There's no perfect solution to this. Each different style has its drawbacks. As far as I can tell the only drawbacks with the ones used on the ASAT is that it doesn't function with crap cables and requires a tool other than a screwdriver to remove it when it eventually goes bad. I haven't hit the point yet where any of my "jacks" have needed replacing, even the one in my '97. IMO it is still the best choice out there.

Thats my $0.02.

[Ken Baker]

First of all, it's the output jack that you are talking about.

Strictly speaking its actually a socket or jack socket - the jack is the thing at the end of your cable. But let's not be too pedantic

It must be that "common language" thing.

Craig is absolutely correct; it's a jack that outputs a signal to the amplifier. Sometimes detailed terminology is important.

http://www.switchcraft.com/Category.aspx?Parent=952
http://www.switchcraft.com/productsumma ... Parent=884
http://www.switchcraft.com/productsumma ... arent=1018

Ken...

[sirmyghin]

First of all, it's the output jack that you are talking about.

Strictly speaking its actually a socket or jack socket - the jack is the thing at the end of your cable. But let's not be too pedantic

Over here they are jacks, and plugs. The input part is likely due to the misconception an electric guitar is powered by the amp, or the plug goes in, therefore it must be input. What Craig corrected is it is infact output.

[Jim P]

I don't think anyone here is questioning what jack we're speaking of whether we call it "input" or "output," right? Of course it's output when you consider the flow of the signal, but it's also a very common mistake for some to call it an input jack. The point is well taken, but it's not what the OP is referring to at all.

The point that Johnny is trying to make here is that the female output jack on your standard ASAT can be very problematic to many folks, and I agreed only because I've had issues with several of them myself. While I feel they're cosmetically one of the best looking - if not the best looking - jack out there, they tend to fail over time, some sooner than others. If it breaks on a gig, it's not a quick fix by any means. Yes, a switchcraft jack may come loose at times, but a wrench can easily tighten it. This generally applies to Strats, Teles, Gibsons, etc., etc. I also think it's a little odd that one would actually have to purchase a reaming tool only for the sake of removing this particular jack in the event that it does break. Furthermore, a working guitarist really shouldn't have to worry about what brand of cable he or she is using in order to work with such a jack, either, for a 1/4" male jack should ideally be able to be inserted into any 1/4" female jack without issue. Anyway, JMHO.

[Craig]

I brought this post to Steve's attention and here is his reply:

Craig,

Please let everyone know we are working to switching all the side mount output jacks to what is commonly called a "football" plate. This is the metal plate that goes along the side of the body that is somewhat shaped like a football. With this plate, we can use any number of readily available jacks that are very easy to remove (2 small screws) and replace if necessary.

This is an ongoing project and will have all the models switched over with in the next month or two. The new Korina ASAT Jr. II and ASAT Deluxe II feature this jack mounting approach.

Thanks for the input on this.

Best regards,

Steve Grom

This is good news!

Hope this helps.

[darwinohm]

Someone is listening. It looks as the football plate/jack would be an easy retrofit to existing G&Ls. -- Darwin

[Jim P]

Wow, Craig! That's great news!

Someone is listening. It looks as the football plate/jack would be an easy retrofit to existing G&Ls. -- Darwin

That's a nice thought, but if the football plate is like the one I'm thinking of, it's going to require a larger hole in existing guitars to accommodate a Switchcraft-style jack. This is probably the primary reason why G&L has avoided it all along. Here's a pic of one:

[darwinohm]

Jim you may have a point as I have never removed an ASAT jack. After reading this today, I checked my guitars to see which had the "Football" type jack. The Parker Southern , Taylor SB-2 and the Suhr all have this jack. The PRS has a square plate. That tells me something. There are aftermaeket jacks available for Fender Teles as they also have problems. I hope that the football plate will retrofit to the ASATS but if need be I can enlarge the hole with a die grinder. I am curious to see what is said by G&L about retrofitting.-- Darwin

[Ken Baker]

The jack plate and "Littel Jax" style jack will not directly retrofit because the diameter of the body hole requirement is different from the deep panel jack. Dimensions here and here.

BassesByLeo member Bluesbassplayer converted one of his basses and posted a quick pictorial, which can be found here.

Just remember that making the conversion is NOT reversible and might not be a good idea for one of your prized collectibles.

Ken...

[Ken Baker]

That's a nice thought, but if the football plate is like the one I'm thinking of, it's going to require a larger hole in existing guitars to accommodate a Switchcraft-style jack. This is probably the primary reason why G&L has avoided it all along. Here's a pic of one:

Actually, it probably has more to do with tradition.

Ken...

[Ahryn]

I wonder if they will make the football plate flush with the body.

[GDub]

the "output" jack on the ASAT is a serious liability....!

I've owned only one ASAT (an ASAT Special) and it is currently living full-time in it's case because of the "output" jack. Changing 1/4" plug type is NOT a solution. I repeat, it's NOT a solution. Using Neutrik or G&H plugs might solve the issue for the short term, but eventually they will get sloppy. When my ASAT's output jack started going south I tried pretty much everything recommended here on the good ol' G&LDP. Eventually, I (and quite a few others) started posting comments similar to johnnyqbs. In fact, it became a tired old complaint because nothing ever came of it. I do remember Darth (Dave Mc) taking a poll at one time asking what style output jack we would like to see on ASATs--this was back in the early 2000s. I do believe the "football" style jack was the winner of that poll (though I'm not positive of that). So Craig's post about a possible change is a LONG TIME coming. We'll see...

FYR, I did have the jack "fixed" several years ago. A local guitar store tech used a dental tool to bend the internal connectors towards the center of the jack in order to make a more solid connection with the 1/4 plug. This worked like a charm for about 6 months. Eventually, the jack reverted back and now it's same as it was before I got it "fixed." Long story short, a new jack is the ONLY solution. I LOVE the guitar, so one of these days I'll get around to getting it fitted with a proper jack.

--GDub

[darwinohm]

I just checked over my Z-3 Bigsby today and look what I noticed. This is in perfect and I would believe that it is original. Hadn't even thought about it until this thread started. Craig, is this an original? It is chrome and perfectly installed. The serial number is CLF 25XXX. Thanks in advance for any input Craig-- Darwin

[Craig]

I just checked over my Z-3 Bigsby today and look what I noticed. This is in perfect and I would believe that it is original. Hadn't even thought about it until this thread started. Craig, is this an original? It is chrome and perfectly installed. The serial number is CLF 25XXX. Thanks in advance for any input Craig-- Darwin

Not original. The side mount output jack has been used without a mounting plate
on all USA ASAT models. The Custom Creations Korina ASAT Deluxe and ASAT Jr. II
will be the first to feature a "football" plate for mounting the side mount output jack and
then the rest of the product line, which uses a side mount output jack will be switched to
this mounting feature. This is an ongoing project and will have all the models switched over
with in the next month or two.

Hope this helps.

[darwinohm]

Thanks Criag, I hadn't even thought about it until now. I am very happy with this as it does look and works great.-- Darwin

[55tele]

Hello everyone,

My first post on the new forum...I am a long time ASAT player and have replaced the output socket / jack on my BluesBoy which is around 10 years old.....I recall doing this a couple / maybe three years ago following the instructions found on the forum. I used a large screwdriver instead of the easy out and a large rubber hammer...all went well with the installation of the new jack with a fresh piece of string after soldering...

One trick I used was to use a STEREO socket / jack, recommended by my tech. BTW, he wouldn't do the job!! This gives extra "support" to the male plug with the ring contact i.e. TRS (tip, ring, sleeve). The Switchcraft TRS is exactly the same exterior dimension as the TS.....Just solder the tip and sleeve....My BluesBoy gets played every Friday night for 4 hours and is still holding fine with my G&H and Neutrik plugs....I have to admit, it was a little scary pounding the original out with the screwdriver / rubber hammer combo, but we gotter done! Anyway I bought a brand new BluesBoy today and will do the same when the time comes.......

Hope this helps!!

55Tele

[Dave_P]

Just came across this thread, my '06 ASAT has the football jack and it looks original (probably isn't though) I'll take some pics when I get home.

Whether it is or not it still has it's issues. The nut does come loose on the switchcraft jack, easy to tighten, yes. But it will twist the wires that are connected to it when you tighten it. Do that enough and they come loose, I had to re-solder them shortly after I got the guitar and it's feeling like it may be time to inspect it again. This time I think I will add some heat shrink tubing at the joint, and maybe some Threadlock on the nut.

-Dave

[Dave_P]

Here are a couple pics of my 2006 ASAT input jack

As you can see it is the football style jack...


...But I do think mine is original because the hole is finished




Did a few leave the factory at some point, prior to the newly implemented change?

Oh and the wires were fine inside, my soldering held up pretty well so ignore my previous complaint, I did have to tighten the nut again though, it does come loose quite often.

-Dave

[Ivo]

I guess the upcoming 'footballplates' are technically a better solution, I find the old solution a far more appealing appearance.
And I have never had an issue with them...

[Craig]

Here are a couple pics of my 2006 ASAT input jack

As you can see it is the football style jack...


...But I do think mine is original because the hole is finished




Did a few leave the factory at some point, prior to the newly implemented change?

Oh and the wires were fine inside, my soldering held up pretty well so ignore my previous complaint, I did have to tighten the nut again though, it does come loose quite often.

-Dave

I checked with the factory and no they did not use the football plate mounted jacks prior.
A previous owner must have done it and also finished the hole, too.

BTW, they are not using Switchcraft jacks but one from another supplier, which does not require such a
large hole to fit the jack into the body. The Switchcraft end that goes into the body is larger, requiring that
larger hole.

Hope this helps.

[Dave_P]

I checked with the factory and no they did not use the football plate mounted jacks prior.
A previous owner must have done it and also finished the hole, too.

I think you are correct after looking closer at the hole/finish, Thanks Craig!

-Dave

[Craig]

I brought this post to Steve's attention and here is his reply:

Craig,

Please let everyone know we are working to switching all the side mount output jacks to what is commonly called a "football" plate. This is the metal plate that goes along the side of the body that is somewhat shaped like a football. With this plate, we can use any number of readily available jacks that are very easy to remove (2 small screws) and replace if necessary.

This is an ongoing project and will have all the models switched over with in the next month or two. The new Korina ASAT Jr. II and ASAT Deluxe II feature this jack mounting approach.

Thanks for the input on this.

Best regards,

Steve Grom

This is good news!

Hope this helps.

Here's an update on the conversion:

The football jack is being used on the M Series Bass, Korina ASAT Deluxe II and Korina ASAT Junior II. We are still working on converting other models.
It's turned out to be a bit more time consuming and difficult to setup all the various drilling fixtures than we anticipated.

Thanks

Steve Grom