Can You Improve A Legacy Or A Strat Type??

[darwinohm]

Have any of you tried one of these? John Suhr claims that he has improved the concept.



Not much difference from the front.-- Goto Bridge- Very clean and smooth operating.



Slight flaming in the neck. 10-14 inch compound radius.



Sperzel locking tuners.



Body sculpture by the neck pocket.



Taper of the neck heel.


Hype or what do you think???-- Darwin

[blargfromouterspace]

Before I critique it - did you buy this already Darwin?

[darwinohm]

Jamie, it is mine and I appreciate you being honest your input. I am looking for honest input and I will post my impressions and how it came about.-- Darwin

[yowhatsshakin]

Great looking guitar. I have never played a Suhr (or Tom Andersen for that matter). But I think that those builders just by paying close attention tp the instrument already build a better guitar than many of the originals. I bet that they actually play the instruments in the shop just to check how they sound, feel, and play. With the original company you'll have to go through the Custom Shop which will lead to a comparable price tag. And don't forget that the Legacy and S-500 are also better versions of the same mousetrap.

Curious about your tone report Darwin.

- Jos

[ieso]

Congrats! You bought a stellar guitar right there. I've come close to buying a few over the years.

They are dramatically better than any Fender but every time I got close to buying a Suhr (or an Anderson) I always chickened out put half my money back in my pocket and went G&L. Where G/L gets beat, for me, is the compound radius neck and Suhr's over-the-top fanatical attention to detail and, in some instances, materials. But you'd demand that for the price, no doubt.

Personally, I don't consider them vastly superior to a G/L, generally, if only because I prefer the G/L bridges and pickups. My wish list for G/L options is very short these days.

But, never know, I may very well stop being a chicken and get a Suhr one of these days.

Again, congrats, love that color.

[darwinohm]

I did a side by side comparison tonight with an American Deluxe Strat, Mahogany body with rosewood fingerboard as this Suhr would be considered a Fender clone. John Surh was a masterbuilder for Fender so I am assuming that is his model. The Strat is an HSS config with S-1 and has Texas specials with the Diamondback humbucker. If you were to put a blindfold on me and have me identify which is which I believe that I could not tell. They both sound very similar through my Twin Reverb Custom 15. There are very subtle differences.Unplugged the Suhr has more sustain. Plugged in it has more noticeable sustain. The Suhr is also an HSS config. Now the subtle differences. The neck pickup on the Fneder is a bit thinner than the Suhr as is the humbucker. The middle pickups are very similar. Overall the Suhr has less 60 cycle noise but neither of them are as quiet as the Kinmans in my Legacy. The Strat has a 9.5 radius and the Surh is 10-14. American Deluxe Fenders in my opinion have always had a very fine neck. The Suhr is thinner top to bottom side of the neck, .800 to .880er so I think the neck would be a matter of preference for radius as the frets are very similar.

The workmanship is different. The Suhr is put together very well as is the Fender but some things are thought out well on the Suhr. The Fender has a corner cut off the neck and neck plate. The Suhr has a bevel to the body/ neck plate and has more of a taper cut in the neck pocket. I also prefer the trem on the Suhr as the bar can easily adjusted easily like a G&L.

Suhr builds the guitar for the buyer for example, you can have different types of bridges/saddles on strat type configurations. You can also have a front jack or a side jack which I prefer. Like many G&Ls the guitars are ordered by dealers to their specs, or more of a custom guitar. Fender does not plek their guitars although I have never had a bad neck from Fender.

I may not have purchased this Suhr new but it was used and as new. Last week I traded Two Fenders and one was a Surf Green 57 reissue for the SG Diablo. As I looked at the wall during the early part of the week it was really lacking gusto with no Surf Green guitar. Tuesday I walk into AG&B and here is this Surf Green Suhr and the price was really right. I had an American Deluxe Strat Hss that I would never use and it was the second victim. So now I have the Surf Green spot covered again.

As Leso pointed out earlier that he has ideas about buying something and he ends up buying a G&L for the money. That really says something as G&L is really custom shop quality. The G&L s are not leaving the stable but I do have some more Fenders that could be candidates. There are quite a few guitars that will not leave and a permanent fixtures until I am pushing grass.

Now I will quit rambling after one more thought. Steve, our lead player was her for an overnight last week. We are getting ready for a gig. He has played his 87 Strat Plus since he bought it new and it sounds great. He test drives a lot of my guitars when he is here and we sat up til 4:00 AM test driving and quenching thirst. His assessment is that the ASAT Special is his favorite for tone and is great to play. He played the Blinger and though it was pretty slick. He also test drove the Taylor SB-2 and said that if he had to work with only one guitar it would be a serious contender as it does most quite well and is a guitar not to be overlooked. Boy, I wish I could make them sound like he does!!

Blarg, I am waiting for your thoughts- Let me have it because if nothing else, it is SURF GREEN!!! -- Darwin

[jonc]

Great color and Suhr's are wonderful guitars. In my humble view once you get into a Suhr, Anderson, Grosh, etc. there is a certain level of refinement and touches that set these apart from production instruments. Where the jump really happens, and again imho, is when you get into a DeTemple, De'Pergo and guitars of that ilk. While I think G&L's are pretty close to the Suhr, Anderson's and Grosh's of the world, the others are in a different class. Then too are the prices which are not insignificant. Do I think Suhr has significantly improved on the Strat? I'm not sure but it's certainly a first class guitar in any case.

[guitar_ed]

As I read this thread, I have to ask: "Improve the Strat" in what way?

3 differences are discussed: tone, feel, and fit & finish. But none are mentioned as being "the important" item.

So, I have to ask: What area's of a Strat could be improved on, and does Suhr improve on them in a significant manner? Or is Suhr just paying more attention to detail, which would really be improving on Fender.

Now that I have pissed you all off,

Good night.

edg

[willross]

It looks great. Caparison, Ed Roman, and even Hahn do the back sculpting thing. Maybe even a bit deeper. I dig that straight grain on the neck too...


Cheers,

Will

[darwinohm]

Guitar Ed, you have not pissed me off in fact you have made a good point, Basically that is "what is wrong with a Strat type that needs improvement. Maybe the term improvement is not the correct term but rather refinement. Strats in general are very fine instruments. Having said that II am going to use Fender as the base line for this discussion. The American Deluxe series is the finest that Fender produces outside their Custom Shop. They have refinements (Improvements?) that even Fenders in the Custom Shop do not have as standard. These are refinements for playability. For example the neck plate/neck has a rounded for playability. The fingerboard and frets edges are rolled for playability. They generally come with locking tuners and many have the LSR nut with no string tree. They also have upgraded pickups and upgraded bridge saddles and a plug in trem like a G&L. The recent American Deluxes also have a compound radius. This is all added for a premium price. In my opinion, they are almost the standard for a Strat type guitar. So to get these features on a Fender, you pay a premium price. Now lets talk about G&L. You get a very quality bridge, DF, on a Legacy or S-500. They do have a saddle/block option. You have a choice of finishes/tints on the neck. You also have a choice of body woods and finish options. I have never seen a Fender other than a custom shop model with the woods like G&L offers on their standard American model. You don't have to buy an 'American Deluxe" to get these things. Now to the Suhr. The Pro series is an entry level Suhr. and has the options available to their high end models. The high end models use exotic woods and are much higher in cost. It comes standard with locking tuners, the neck base is contoured and it has some very nice improvements over what I would consider a baseline Strat. G&L is so far over a baseline Strat in my opinion and that is why some compare them to custom shop Fenders. To get a Flamed Maple neck on a Fender you have to order custom shop. Long answer Ed, but it takes these other manufactures to improve the mousetrap and we the buyer gain from it. Actually, the Strat in its original form is almost as perfect as it gets. Fender sells a lot of reissues.-- Darwin

[darwinohm]

Will, I hope your guitars arrived without a hitch and some customs official is not enjoying them at home!!!!! -- Darwin

[Philby]

I love the surf green colour Darwin. It's a beauty. Nearly as nice as red. But the body looks a bit 'pointy' and modern for my tastes. A surf green strat should be all curves like an old Corvette. Just my personal preference though.

Is it really as angular as it appears in the photos? The cutaway also looks quite deep. One of the best features of my mid-90's S-500 is the super curvy the body contours. I've heard the later G&L's are more conservative in that respect.

You'll have to change your avatar now the surf green strat above your head is gone.

[darwinohm]

Philby, it is angular as in the photo and the cutaway is deep. If you look at the back photo is has a cut on the back side for easier access to the top frets. Funny you should mention the avatar. It is so outdated and I have been trying to change it for the last two weeks. I may end up contacting Craig on how to change it. Thanks, Philby, Surf Green is cool and I especially realized that after the 57 reissue was gone. -- Darwin

[blargfromouterspace]

... the body looks a bit 'pointy' and modern for my tastes.

That's what I thought too. The headstock too.

I like the improvements on it, even if they're nothing groundbreaking. The extra sculpting by the neck heel is nice. Seems to have a master volume/master tone. This is a very good idea and something I had on my old strat.

Is the bridge better than the DFV?

[Philby]

Seems to have a master volume/master tone. This is a very good idea and something I had on my old strat.

I hadn't noticed that. Well spotted Jamie! I've got all my strats wired up that way as well. I've never really seen the point of the second tone control, especially when it usually doesn't control the bridge pickup, which is the position in most need of tone shaping.

[darwinohm]

Jamie, you have picked up on the tone control and I like it. The trem is not better than the DF as they both work very well. I do like the trem feel better than the American Deluxe. I did a comparison with an American Deluxe Strat earlier in this post. The Fender overall is thinner in sound which is not a surprise. I have not compared it to a Legecy and would expect the Legacy to do very well. Overall this is a very light and good feeling guitar. The compound radius is very nice and with the access to the upper frets and they do bend well. I have always considered the American Deluxe Fenders as the benchmark and it is no longer here although I still have 3 or 4. Remember that the 57 reissue was a 7.25 radius with vintage frets and it had a different feel. Philby, I am not surprised that you have rewired the controls and I agree that two tone controls are on not of much value. You can get either on the Suhr as you can get either a front jack or side jack. Thanks guys. It is not a Fender and does have a different but the pickguards are identical except for 2 screw holes and I think that the necks may be interchangeable as the measurements appear to be identical at the pocket although I did not use a micrometer.-- Darwin

[CGT]

That's the first Suhr I've seen that I've liked. My only physical contact with the brand was at a boutique in Montreal where every Strat-style Suhr was simply hideous, with overly figured wood and other accoutrements that went against the sparse design that I associate with strats. If the refinements work for you, Darwin, isn't that all the only thing that counts? I have master volume/tone knobs on my lowly Yamaha Pacifica and I can't say that I like that specific combination. I find that the that PTB system on the G&L works best followed by the individual tone controls on my Gibson Sonnex, which is wired 50s style so rolling off volume does not affect treble.

But in the end, the ultimate question remains whether the Suhr is worth twice as much as a Legacy from a player's standpoint. Since I haven't tried it, I couldn't really say whether the refinements may work for me and, as with all things, one's mileage may vary.

[darwinohm]

CGT, I would not pay twice the price of a Legacy for a Suhr either. One has to wonder what makes the Surhs, Andersons and Groshs worth what they go for. They are outstanding in workmanship and build but so is a Legacy. I thought it would be a good addition and it is at the price I paid. I used it again last night and it is sweet. -- Darwin

[sirmyghin]

There are a lot of refinements I would make to a strat, and Suhr offers a lot of them. I agree with others, it is the attention to detail they give to their builds which sets them apart. That is also why they cost much more, the increase in man hours. If they offered a longer scale I would be interested in one of their 7s. Their pickups all told are really really nice too.

The scalloped low horn is a big one for me, my ASAT is way too tight and most strats are too. I can still do it, but it could be better. Less heel is generally always good.

[Xochitl]

Darwin, your guitar is more of an 80's version of a strat designed by Suhr and Anderson back in the day. It would be better to compare with Suhr's strat clone model which he also offers in a pro ("standardized") version: the C1 or C2 (C stand for Classic). Here it goes in surf green. Compared to your S version, Darwin, their neck would be a little fatter and the trem, while remaining a two pivot version, is a little more on the vintage side thanks to its bent saddles.

CGT, you have a shop in Quebec that advertises the C2 baby blue version. It may be more to your taste (I do like it though).

[darwinohm]

Xochitl. This one does not have the bent saddles. The vintage version also has the 6 screw trem like a vintage Strat. Thanks for your information.--Darwin