Not another amp suggestion topic...

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:03 pm

... that's right another one, here's the skinny.

A local guitar shop that I frequent right now is offering 6 months no interest on anything in the store for the rest of June, which naturally got me thinking that my G&L deserves to be plugged into a real tube amp!

No slight to the VCXD what it does it does really well and I will still keep it around. so whats my taste in amps?

While the three amp models I use most on the as before mentioned VCXD is voice 1 (Tweed champ) voice 4 (Clean Blackface) and voice 13 (modern high gain, Mesa I think).

Basically the baseline is the Deluxe Reverb RI, price wise it's at the limit, and wattage wise lets just say that anything over 30 watts is probably more then I would need.

Oh and the obvious alternative to the DRRI, the Pro Junior and Princeton Reverb?

Well they are sold out. also just like many people I play mainly at home or at least exclusively at home right now so a nice tone at bearable volume for the other people in my house would be a good idea. my practice space is in a basement... of a duplex, just for any that were wondering.

So in short... will a Deluxe Reverb RI be acceptable for home use at low volume and still sound sweet?

Or is the Deluxe Reverb going to be too loud and are there any other amps you could suggest I should try?

I of course plan to plug my ASAT into every tube amp in the immediate area once I get in the store, but I figure this way I wont miss any opportunities.

willross · Post by **willross** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:39 am

I have a few Soldano's: Astroverb, Lucky 13 & Decatone. They all work well with an S-500.

Cheers,

Will

guitar_ed · Post by **guitar_ed** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:38 am

Hi Ahryn,

I don't know about Canada, but here in the USofA, there is a "gotcha" with deals of that sort. Namely, if you don't meet the payment terms you owe interest on the ORIGINAL balance, from day 1. And the interest rate on that is around 30%.

And by payment terms, they mean one penny, one day late. Too bad, you owe us all that interest.

Just something to keep in mind.

edg

Muleya · Post by **Muleya** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:05 pm

In part, it depends what you're looking for. If you are wanting a clean tone at reasonable volumes, I'd think the DRRI would probably be fine...I've actually never played one, but my single-ended home brew amp is based on one...the preamp is almost identical. And it sounds great at lowish volumes, then I use pedals with it for dirt. However, if you are wanting to take advantage of its smooth, sweet overdrive, it has no master volume and would have to be cranked...and the 22W is going to be PLENTY loud!!

If you're looking for something to give you both cleans and overdrive, you might look at Egnator, Blackstar, Hughes & Kettner, or even Jet City...they all have amps in that price range that would provide you with a 2-channel amp with a master volume allowing you to get gainier tones at low volumes. However, some amps do low volumes better than others, so I'd just suggest you try before you buy!

jonc · Post by **jonc** » Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:26 pm

if "by sweet" you mean a nice tube overdrive or full, rich clean sound then a DR is going to be way too loud for most home situations. if you're looking for an amp you can push then you're looking more in the 5-8 watt range, though these might not have the headroom you want for cleans. the Princeton is probably a better choice as a home amp but there are a lot of amps out there, and the shop's need to move amps, hence the 6 Months (over here Guitar Center gives a year or more but as Ed pointed out, has the gotcha if you don't pay in full before the time is up) offer, wouldn't push me one way or another. you'll get better value by buying used and can pick up some really nice amps for a few hundred $ these days and $500-$700.00 would get you some really nice stuff. how about looking at a Silverface Vibro Champ? still cheap, sounds good on it's own, and sounds great when you bypass the 8" speaker and hook it up to a 1x10 or 1x12. there are other options as others have mentioned but i would take a bit of time and get something that's the best fit and would go used rather than new. just my 2c's. happy hunting.

blargfromouterspace · Mon Jun 13, 2011 12:22 am

If you're just playing at home a lower wattage amp would be best. There are heaps of them out there now under 10 watts and if you want it to sound bigger at home run it through an extension cab. The volume wont be overpowering but you'll get the satisfying feeling of some air being shifted.

Like Guitar_Ed says though, be super careful with those no down-payment, no interest things. They're far worse than credit cards.

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:10 am

Some nice replies guys, I have done financing through this store before with regular interest and they are not too bad, just pay more than the minimum and in less then the 6 months and your free and clear.

It looks like the DRRI might be out for now (maybe once I start playing out) thanks Muleya for the Hughes and Kettner suggestion I'll have to plug into a few of those.

maybe a low watt head and cab would be a good idea or at least an AC4TV, I have been using an AC30 Vox amplug and have been getting good results with it.

Good suggestions Jonc and I'll definitely be keeping my eyes peeled for a real silverface vibrochamp.

I would definitely like to have access to a full rich clean that I could augment with pedals (I have the Green Screamer if I need a little dirt)

Also what would be some things to look for in a decent low wattage tube amp?

Or at least a tube amp to use in smaller spaces?

CGT · Post by **CGT** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:22 am

Hi Ahryn.

My suggestion, if you've got a decent computer, is to try Ampitude 3 FREE, which has awesome JCM800 and Twin Reverb sims that you can patch through a clean Solid State amp. (A recording engineer friend recommended this software and rightfully so, it blows away any amp sims I've tried before.) The models included in the freebie are not "official" so while they replicate the sound of the real thing, they don't replicate the control panel.) I was jonesing for a tube amp but found them way too loud for the attic and this software works wonders for me. Plus it allowed me to try different things and made me settle on the idea that when I do decide to gig, I'll head over to Long-McQuade and rent before I buy.

Muleya · Post by **Muleya** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:39 am

Just a note about the low wattage tube amps...most of them have a decidedly vintage type of overdrive sound...not a lot of bottom end, and what bottom end is there tends to be loose/muddy sounding. That may be what you're looking for, and if so, that's fine. But if you are into post '60 and 70's overdrive/distortion, with bigger and tighter bottom ends, you may not get that from most of these. Also, 5W fully cranked is probably louder than you expect....many of these low wattage tube amps don't have master volumes, so you have to crank them to get that grind.

The one exception that I've tried is the Blackstar HT-5...a pretty nice little two channel amp with very pleasing overdrive tones. This one also has a master volume for the high gain channel, I believe, as well as a headphone jack. And there are higher wattage amps in their HT series, but I don't know all the details on them. But you might check them out if you can, along side the Hughes and Kettner.

sickbutnottired · Post by **sickbutnottired** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:56 am

I primarily play DR's, silverfaces not a RI--but it is a poor practice amp because it doesn't have any sustain or juice at all until it gets pretty loud. I joke that there is no volume control, just an on/off switch.

So I am going to be looking for a smaller wattage setup in the future as well...good luck.

bluwoodsman · Post by **bluwoodsman** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 2:08 pm

Ahryn I'm a newbie at the new amp designs these days but was doing a bit of research for a friend, and came across a youtube video comparing three small watt TUBE amps.

Vox, fender, marshall, and blackstar.

Check it out...very well done I thought.

I wasn't shopping myself but am intrigued by the Vox TV now, it's kinda hard to play through my Mesa/Mark at low volume and get the tone I like and the wife/kids whine a bit--but cleans aren't one of the little Vox's strong suites. One of the others might work out for you. The SuperChamp sure looks sweet if you like to fiddle with dialing in tones!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Dc3E4OxKWI

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 4:49 pm

wow good to have some conformation that the DR is not a good idea right now, and thanks CGT I'll have to give that Amptitude a real try but I would like something I could take out to a small gig as well (and by small I mean like 25 people in a room small)

Muleya I'll keep that in mind but I figure if I need some overdrive I will just use my Green Screamer I am mostly looking for a responsive clean sound that I can control from my picking dynamics and enhance that through pedals.

Cool video bluwoodsman I have tried the class 5 before and it didn't quite do it for me but maybe I will give it another shot, unfortunately I can't get my hands on the ht-5 and I have the SuperChamp XDs little brother, the VibroChamp XD and it is not a tube amp with DSP effects per say but more of a true hybrid.

I also am not one for knob fiddling which is why the AC4 appeals to me actually, although its clean looks pretty on the dirty side.

Would a 15 watt amp with a master volume solve some of these smaller watt problems?

Bigger speaker more clean headroom but acceptable volume for the basement but can be miced for a small gig?

I am thinking along the lines of the blues junior and ac15c1 although from what videos I have seen the Blues Junior might not have the cleans and the ac15 would be too loud.

Muleya · Post by **Muleya** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 8:31 pm

Okay, that helps to know you're looking for primarily a cleanish amp that you can use with pedals.

The Blues Jr. has supposedly been revamped in the last year or so...adding a "Sparkle" switch or something like that, to improve the cleans...though I've not tried one of these new ones. The older ones tended to sound a little boxy...though I also know a number of people really like them.

But it might be worth moving up to the 40W Fenders...either the Hot Rod Deluxe or even the Blues Deluxe. The Hot Rod has very nice black-facey cleans that responds well to pedals and does very nice mild overdrives, which sounds like it could be a good match for you. It will do high gain, but not very well, but sounds like that wouldn't matter to you. The Blues Deluxe, I believe, is more tweedy, so cleans would be a little warmer and probably not as sparkly, and it also does a very nice mild overdrive...doesn't do high gain at all. As I recall, both of these amps sound pretty good at low volumes.

I don't know much about Vox amps, so can't say anything about them.

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:12 pm

Wow Muleya, I didn't even consider the hot rod or blues deluxe because of the 40 watts, I'll really have to try both of them at various volumes.

You are right about the high gain thing, If I needed high gain I would probably purchase an amp specifically for that but what higher gain needs I have (mostly screwing around) is satisfied by the high gain models on my VibroChamp.

Philby · Post by **Philby** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:40 pm

I am thinking along the lines of the blues junior and ac15c1 although from what videos I have seen the Blues Junior might not have the cleans and the ac15 would be too loud.

I own a first generation Blues Junior and a current model Vox AC15C1.

In my experience the Blues Jnr is a solid little amp with outstanding cleans and not much else. You really have to drive the power amp to get decent crunch/overdrive out of it, but by that stage your ears will be pleading for mercy. Driving the preamp stage gets you overdrive at much lower volumes, but the sound is

. Muddy, flabby, uninspiring overdrive. Maybe the current generation Blues Jnr is better with the modifications to the tone circuit, but an OD pedal does a much better job. Putting a better speaker in made my Blues Jnr a MUCH better amp. I love it for what it is now.

The Vox AC15C1 is a two channel amp. And it can get LOUD. The clean (Normal) channel is my definition of tone perfection and it sounds lush at ANY volume. At louder volumes you can make it break up, but at bedroom levels it is a pure, clean delight. Single coils sound heavenly through this channel with a bit of delay, or an OD pedal. The Top Boost channel can be made to break up at bedroom levels, but doesn't sound convincing until you really crank it. It is brighter than the normal channel and single coils sound grating if you don't tone the treble down. Once you get it dialled in, Top Boost is where all the classic British sounds are. I've noticed that humbucker equipped guitars drive this channel better than single coils, so running single coil guitars through a boost pedal might give more pleasing results.

If I were looking for a 5W amp, I'd buy one of these in a heartbeat. Try one if you can.

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Mon Jun 13, 2011 10:51 pm

Thanks Philby, i was hoping someone with either amp would chime in and I am glad to have someone that owns both.

The distortion issue with the blues junior would probably explain why I haven't liked any video demos I have seen so I will have to try out the blues junior III if only to comment on any differences.

That lush clean on the AC15 sounds so tempting and at any volume you say? interesting....

Finding a Laney dealer were I am at is almost as bad as finding a G&L dealer but I agree that looks like one fine amp and I know I wouldn't turn down one of there cub amps if any passed by my path.

Oh and are there any heads that you guys can suggest?

I don't want to miss out on anything by focusing only on combos.

sirmyghin · Post by **sirmyghin** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 9:28 am

I would say check out a Mark V, it has a good tweed voice, you can get glassy fender cleans a couple ways (my preferred is rolling back on 'edge' mode) and your modern high gain is there too. I spend most of my time in the not high gain sections however.

Dave_P · Post by **Dave_P** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:11 pm

I have to disagree about the 40w Fenders (Hot Rod/Blues Deluxe) they are nice sounding amps but the way the volume control lacks....control

They go from off to loud, not a good choice for a practice amp. Something in the 15w range would be my choice (ac15, blues/pro jr, silverface fender) I think they offer the most versatility. Still quite/small enough for bedroom use and can get by at band practice. Good luck!

-Dave

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 12:28 pm

Nice suggestion Sirmyghin but the Mark V is 2 1/2 times my current budget, same with alot of the Mesas although I do see them come up at nice prices every now and again.

Yeah Dave_P I did a quick google search on "hot rod deluxe volume" and had pages after pages of people complaining about it going from 0 to earbleedingly loud even with the HRD III they fixed to taper on the master but not the volume.

One 15 watt amp that recently got on my radar is the vox night train and the 2 watt little night train.

Muleya · Post by **Muleya** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 1:17 pm

That's true...I don't know what's up with Fender in that regard...my first two amps were Fender solid state amps that suffered that problem. And I recently picked up one of the uber-cheap Mustang I modelling amps just to goof around with, and it's not as bad, but is somewhat that way as well. So I'm not sure if it's the value of the pots they use, or the taper...or just the circuit itself.

However, I was jamming with a colleagues husband a couple years ago, and he was using a Hot Rod Deluxe and we were playing at lowish volumes and he didn't seem to have any problems that I recall, and his tone was decent.

I don't know if you have access to any Engator amps, but if you do, I'd add them to your list of amps to check out. I've only tried them in stores...I don't recall volume issues, but it's been a while. There are lots of models and types available and they get good reviews. There is a 15W Tweaker, a 20W Rebel, and I think they come in both head and combo format.

sirmyghin · Post by **sirmyghin** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 7:07 pm

Ahryn wrote:Nice suggestion Sirmyghin but the Mark V is 2 1/2 times my current budget, same with alot of the Mesas although I do see them come up at nice prices every now and again.

My solution is generally save up. I don't think any of us really have 2k+ sitting waiting to be spent on gear at a given time. I was over a year ampless before I got mind (that was a delightful year I assure you, at least the last bit when I got the amp anyway)

blargfromouterspace · Post by **blargfromouterspace** » Tue Jun 14, 2011 8:07 pm

Ahryn wrote:Nice suggestion Sirmyghin but the Mark V is 2 1/2 times my current budget, same with alot of the Mesas although I do see them come up at nice prices every now and again.\

If you see an F-30 come up it would be worth a look. Killer amp and pretty cheap used too. I wish I'd kept mine!

Muleya · Post by **Muleya** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 5:55 am

I had an Mesa F50 for several years, and the main reason I got rid of it was it had to be fairly loud to sound good...not screaming loud, but louder than practical for a basement amp. It was too fizzy at lower volumes. At high volumes, it was quite nice...but I like my hearing!

If you're going to go over $1000, I'd highly recommend a Marshall JVM...I get excellent tones of all gain levels out of mine at low volumes...low enough that I can play it when my kids and wife are in bed! I traded my F50 in for my JVM and have never looked back! And prices have come down on the JVM2 series a bit.

But I honestly don't think you need to spend that much if you'd rather not.

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Wed Jun 15, 2011 10:41 pm

yeah Muleya the tweaker looks right up my alley and guys I do see a Mesa in my future but unless some stars align I don't think it is going to be my first tube amp.

Muleya · Post by **Muleya** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 6:29 am

Be sure to report back once you get something. Whatever it is, I'd love to hear your thoughts!

LKJ · Post by **LKJ** » Thu Jun 16, 2011 5:19 pm

One more suggestion...
I recently did some extensive research and try outs on lower powered amps for home and recording use. After looking at most everything out there (Blackstar, Blackheart, Vox, Traynor, Jet City... and I was moving up from an Epi Valvle Jr.) I settled on a Egnater Tweaker head (15w). The range of quality tones is impressive for the $$'s. It can be as clear and bell-like as you could want and easily dials up overdrive.

It has 3 tone stacks that emulate Fender, Vox and Marshall circuits, a vintage/modern tweak and tweaks for brightness in the high end and tightness in the bass. Although it was great out of the box with EH preamp tubes and Ruby power tubes, it got even better with some vintage RCA's and GE's in the preamp and RCA's in the power section. It comes in a combo version as well. I've spent under $400 including the tubes, and I get happier every time I play it.

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:06 pm

Nuts, the local store in question does not carry egnaters

I'll have to try the tweaker another time.

any thoughts on amp heads?

I have recently been reading about the Vox Night Train and Orange Tiny Terror, unfortunately the Mesa Transatlantic is still out of reach.

sirmyghin · Post by **sirmyghin** » Fri Jun 17, 2011 7:24 pm

Huhges and Kettner released what looks likea nice micro amp this year if that is you boat, 18W 5W 1W I think or somesuch, even 0W (silent out for recording)

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 8:28 am

A few quick googleing reveals that it is the H&K tubemeister 18, definitely looks up my alley...

glvourot · Post by **glvourot** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 9:43 am

Ahryn, we seem to be in a similar situation, ampwise at least ! I use a SCXD that has served me very well. But I have been on the lookout for a true tube amp as well. From what I have heard, those princeton reissues sound fantastic as does the VOX ac15 ( which you can run at 8 watts , at least on one of its variants ) . Too many choices ( which is good ). L&M will always have some sort of deal going on so don't rush out and settle for something you are not 100% on.

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Sat Jun 18, 2011 10:13 pm

very good advice glvourot, I figure even if I don't walk out with a new amp I'll still leave L&M with plenty of opinions and lessons learned.

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Mon Jun 20, 2011 11:50 pm

Well I'm not going to be able to post a NAD post for a while as the next couple of days will be busy as heck but...

Here's a hint, what is 6 watts hand wired and has a tube driven reverb?

Muleya · Post by **Muleya** » Tue Jun 21, 2011 6:27 am

I was thinking VHT Special 6 Ultra, but that doesn't have reverb, so I'm stumped!

Boogie Bill · Post by **Boogie Bill** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 12:21 am

I like Mesa amps. I think you could find something used for much less than a grand that would fit your needs.

Mesa has several 2xEL84 amps like the Studio .22, DC-2, F-30, Express 5:25 and the new TransAtlantic. No 'verb or EFX loop in the TA, but it is considered the best of the "lunchbox" amps.

For about 35 watts a 4xEL-84 power amp works well, and you can certainly gig with any of these: DC-3, Nomad 45, TA-30, and Maverick. The Blue Angel is a single-channel amp that has dual power sections that can run either 2x6V6 or 4xEL84--or both together for 18, 33 or 38 watts. I have Maverick 212 and DC-3 112 combos.

(Also have a second Maverick 212 for sale. Wanna meet me in Seattle? LOL!)

Mesa has some 2x6L6 amps too that run 50-60 watts: SOB, Mark I, DC-5, .50 Caliber+, Nomad 55, F-50, and Express 5:50. All definitely pro-quality amps, and you could handle almost any situation with these.

Two others bear mentioning: the Mark III and the Mark IV. Look for a Mark III Simul-Class version, and try to get a "loaded" version with the Graphic EQ, EVM speaker and Reverb. The Simul-Class, the EVM and EQ are well-worth the extra cost. Three channels, tlhough most people use only two channels live. (I do use all three.) Simul-Class allows you to switch between 15 watts Class A and 75 watts in Simul-Class adding a 2x6L6 Class AB section. I use 2xEL34 in the Class A sockets. The amp's only real weakness is a reverb that lacks the lush depth of a Fender. I love the tone of these amps--I have two "loaded" combos and a 200-watt Coliseum head.

The Mark IV gives you a more controllable R2 "Crunch" channel; but it is the power section that gives you the most versatility. It is Simul-Class like the Mark III, but gives you more control over the output, allowing you to go from 15, 30, 75, 85 watts and some stops in between. These built-in "mods" really change the amp's feel and response. Great amp for recording, because it is a tweaker's dream; but it is a great amp to use live, too. I set mine in the sweet spots, and I instantly have three great tones at my feet. Best EFX loop EVER, btw. And I didn't even mention the 5-band EQ. Mine's a 112 EVM combo.

Mark IIIs can be had dirt cheap these days, one of the best amp values on the market, IMO. Mark IVs are still holding their value, but I think they are still a bargain. You can spend a whole lot more for an amp, and get a lot less.

Mesas are expensive, but if there was ever a product that defined, "You get what you pay for," it's Mesa Boogie amps.

Good luck!

Bill

Ahryn · Post by **Ahryn** » Thu Jun 23, 2011 10:31 am

Excelent Boogie Bill!

I happened to have just gotten a nice little tube amp that I will put a NAD post for soon but I am glad to have this buying guide for MESAs from the man!

I'm not going to be stateside for some time otherwise I would hold you to that offer.

Either way I'll be keeping my eyes out.

bluwoodsman · Post by **bluwoodsman** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 7:12 am

FWIW I occasionaly see nice M/B's going for well under a grand, if that's your price point. Used, on feebay or craigs. I wouldn't shy away from used one, they are built well.

Gotta ask Bill though--can you really get good breakup with the simulclass turned down to low watts--without still having to turn it up a fair amount? My one exp. with one was that I couldn't get that sound without turning it up.

Also--any reason why you didn't mention the Mark 2's? A few advantages over the mark 1's IMO, but they still don't have a great effects loop. Maybe price? I don't see them come up as often and they ask a fair amount for them when I do...

Muleya · Post by **Muleya** » Fri Jun 24, 2011 12:50 pm

bluwoodsman wrote: Gotta ask Bill though--can you really get good breakup with the simulclass turned down to low watts--without still having to turn it up a fair amount? My one exp. with one was that I couldn't get that sound without turning it up.

+1...this is exactly why I sold my F50...had to be fairly loud for the tone to fully develop. The "fizzies" were very prominent at low volumes...at higher volumes, they were still there, but the rest of the frequencies would bloom and the fizzies provided a nice "presence". Unfortunately, that was volume was too loud for my basement.

I don't know if all Mesa's suffer from that, but I'm kind of once bitten, twice shy after that experience.

jackassrock · Post by **jackassrock** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 7:17 am

Just wanted to chime in late and say that I'm completely happy with my Blackstar HT-40

It's got two great channels (I'm looking at you Fender and Marshall, you could learn something from this), and is the perfect volume for practice or gigs. I never run mine over half master volume for live situations, and it's very tweakable. Beyond that I only paid 650 for it new. Great amp !!!

I'm gonna try it with a Celestion 75 soon and that ought to add a little thump to it on the low end. Will report.

willross · Post by **willross** » Wed Jul 27, 2011 12:47 pm

Just stopping by to add a couple pics of my Lucky 13:

Cheers,

Will

yowhatsshakin · Post by **yowhatsshakin** » Fri Jul 29, 2011 6:12 pm

Nice looking head Will. And quite the number of chicken heads ...

- Jos

willross · Post by **willross** » Mon Aug 01, 2011 7:01 pm

Found a cool video demo'ing my amp. The guy doing it designed the Lucky 13. Check it out:

[youtube]BRBQcu_Qbm8[/youtube]

Cheers,

Will