LR Wednesday, July 20, 2011 Sidemen

[yowhatsshakin]

Hi gang,

Lunch
Have to fill you in on that later. No clue yet. While writing this everybody is still sound asleep here so I don't even know what I'll have for breakfast. Likely yoghurt with berries again (see Monday's LR)

Yesterday, Jommie and our guests went to the Zoo. But it was too cold to spent too much time there so they were home pretty fast. And jet lag finally hit our guests too. All in all a semi-quiet day yesterday. Except for the evening.

Jommie and I met up with other friends at the Chateau Ste. Michelle Winery to see Sarah MacLachlan play in concert. Just to cut to the chase, non withstanding the ominous gray skies, it stayed dry the evening! Little wind too so you might claim it was even a comfortable evening here in the Pacific Northwest. In all the years going there for outdoors concerts I can only remember being rained on for 5 minutes when waiting for Mark Knopfler to come out 3 years ago.

We had seen Sarah earlier this year on the tour at the Paramount Theatre in downtown and knew therefore we were in for some great music. That earlier time I was very surprised, and pleasantly so, to see a guitar player on the left side of the stage with long, curly, blonde tresses with a nice collection of Amp 65 amps in the backline. No mistake it was Peter Stroud standing there who I had seen a couple of times with Sheryl Crow. On the other side of the stage, at least in the theatre show, you found Luke Doucet, who had been playing on and off with Sarah for as long as she has been performing. Yesterday, she had a different guitar player who was solid but not as 'flashy' as Luke. Both Peter and Luke are sidemen I always enjoy watching and listening to. Another couple I want to throw in here are some sidemen I've seen play with Lucinda Williams. For years, Doug Pettibone was her musical director playing very tasty licks. But when I saw her last month, I was disappointed not to see Doug in the line-up. However, I shouldn't have worried. The guitar chair was occupied by the young whipper snapper Blake Mills, who had tasty licks all his own. Most, if not all of the people mentioned have project of their own, but again I love watching and listening to them in somebody else's setting. Up to the point I'm almost tempted to buy tickets for a concert not so much to see the artist on the marquee but rather some musician in the band backing said artist, especially for some jazz acts. And there are plenty more I could think of, but these are related to the last 2 concerts I have seen. Hence ...

Non-G&L related question
Any sidemen (or women) you like?

To come up with a G&L related question, I just cannot get these beautiful Korina models that were made public out of my head. Blarg just posted a comment on the absence of a Sadde-Lock bridge model.
G&L related question
Are there any other things one would have like to see in these models? Different shape? Set neck? (Oh boy) Vote and comment. You can vote more than one model and can change your vote too!!

We'll see what we'll do today. Initial plans are to go to Deception Pass but skies are gray again. I post on it tomorrow.

- Jos

[yowhatsshakin]

I am extremely excited about these Korina models and voted to get me a Junior II and Deluxe II. Of course I am extremely biased too. Firstly, I am a T-shape man and they are all T-shape! Second, I collect Limited Editions and this gives me something to look forward to. Should I get all 4 then? Still thinking about it. But the aforementioned models just got my juices flowing and instantly registered in my brain. Thirdly, I have been 'lusting' for a PRS with soapbars for the longest time. And they released a McCarty Korina a couple of years back. Still for some reason, I never could pull the trigger. Maybe because I just had to wait for G&L to do something? Especially when one of the models has a P-90 too? Don't know, but I can tell you I am fairly trigger happy right now. Bring them on!

- Jos

[sirmyghin]

Korina has me not terribly excited, the pickguards destroy any aesthetic I would like, and the stuff looks not much different than hog, so I can't say my interest is piqued. Black Limba on the other hand, looks much better imo. Korina seems to be all the rave of boutique and private builders nowadays, can't say I understand it. Then again most guitarists believe that a large portion of their sound comes from the wood of the guitar (I believe there are 2 types of wood, resonant wood, and dead wood (that is wood with too much internal damping)), and it is over-hyped in that aspect. I would rather go score that 30th anniversary bluesboy.

BTW Jos, got an update on my incoming, we are waiting on a switch, will take about 1 week. We need an on/off/on to replace the chrome piezo mag/both/piezo switch with a black one. It is painful, but in the long run I will be happier if I wait for it. It is strung up and the wiring/setup/test guy absolutely loves the wiring setup (which is good, considering I know how much of a pain it is to wire it). The setup is individual series/split(outer)/parallel switches, into a phase switch (pull tone pot) for the neck, into a 3 way blade. Master volume, piezo volume, and tone circuit, piezo volume is the pull for different eq. I am really eager to try out of phase tones, with mismatched coil patterns (series bridge+ split neck etc) as the subtractive nature should be highly sensitive to that. 3 x 3 position switches, a 3 way blade, and 3 knobs on the thing 2 of which pull, hence how it has more controls than blargs amp.

Side men are interesting. The one that catches my eye is an absolute monster player, Steve Stevens, the guitar player that hangs around with Billy Idol. Although funny looking, he is plenty exceptional. His solos are very cool, imo. Charnett Moffet playing beside Stanley Jordan in the past seems another choice I would gravitate towards. You can watch him absolutely massacre the upright in the below video, I can't even do that on an electric bass.... Not even close. I am working on a touch style arrangement for this tune currently, obviously not as complicated as Jordans playing, as it is a 5 string bass, and his is comping well due to his playing on both (complete freedom) where I need to dodge. Thing is I am using it to build coordination, I have some solo ideas I couldn't dream of being able to execute yet, so I am working out a simple bassline and the head/B to just get my hands moving more independantly.

[youtube]lQZY87PDsnQ[/youtube]

[willross]

Yo, great job this week. I like Korina, but have limited experience with it in regards to different models, etc. I have one and it is a LP-style w/ a flamed maple cap. I may be getting a korina/limba S-type, but still waiting....... I'll try to contact him again today.

If there were an SC-2 w/ either the DFV or SL I'd be flying. I will be ordering a Bluesboy, but the Junior II is lookin at me. Although, I'd like to know more about the P-90's... Wait! All are offered in Left handed, right?


Cheers,

Will

[darwinohm]

Keep it up Yo!! I was green with envy when you said it was cold yesterday. Boy would some cold be nice.

After reflecting on the models announced yesterday, There are none that I would pick. As I said last night Korina does not do it for me and as Sirmy said, It looks too much like Mahogany. I am also not a fan of Tunomatic/ Stoptail setup. I do have a couple of P 90 guitars already. There is no doubt that they could become collectible as a Custom Creation. I really think that the are targeting the LP guys and that is a good idea. The only problem is that the true LP player likes a short scale. For a guy who wants a more LP style with a long scale, this is it. If it had been transparent Red with the Black pickguard, I may be singing a different tune. I can relate to pulling the trigger., Yo, I am always one step from doing that.

I saw some sidemen back in the 60's who were great. One was Cecil Bays, who had a seventh string like a 5 string banjo. Of course there is no one like James Burton. Back when Emmy Lou had her Hot Band, that was a group of top shelf sidemen. She was not afraid to spend money on sidemen. I also thought that Rick Nelson had a great lead player in his final years. Now for a steel player, who could forget Tom Brumley. Now we get into Desert Rose. Are you starting to get the drift. Maybe I need to be listening to some newer stuff. Although Desert Rose is pretty damn new for me!!! And the new kids are Will Ray and John Jorgenson, although these boys are no longer sidemen but well known artists. Boy, I am more modern than I had realized. -Darwin

[Dave_P]

I'm with Will an sc-2 in Korina would be sweet!

-Dave

[suave eddie]

Sidemen....................................

John Hiatt always surrounds himself with great musicians. The first time I saw him I had never heard of him but only went because Ry Cooder was mentioned in the ad. Since then, I have bought all of his CDs and been to at least 10-15 of his shows. He has had Sonny Landreth play with him on many CDs and tours. It's worth going just to see Sonny play.

The last tour I saw him on (and his last couple of recordings) featured a guitarist named Luther Dickinson--no slouch either--from the North Mississippi Allstars.

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Here he is with Ry Cooder
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[willross]

I want to change my vote to "No". I have to; no lefties allowed...

[Philby]

Suave Eddie is right. John Hiatt employs some of the coolest sidemen in the business. I've got most of his stuff on CD (showing my age) and the playing is exceptional on all of them. I particularly enjoy the album that Michael Landau plays on, Stolen Moments.

I've got a few albums where Jerry Donahue is a sideman, and for a tele virtuoso he plays very sympathetically and in context with the song. i.e. no overbearing guitar heroics.

Steely Dan come to mind too when I think of bands with great sidemen.

I'd really like an ASAT Jr in korina, but my wife would make me sleep in the car for a whole year.

[darwinohm]

Philby, I can understand why she would make you sleep in the car for a year. The Korina in that color has no appeal to the ladies, another boring guitar. Now, if you showed up with a beautiful Red guitar like that Cole Clark you showed us last night , you would probably be in bed immediately with her and not to sleep. You just have to understand these ladies. Look at the Gizmos that Blarg has hanging on his guitar. They are not a boring Amber over Korina. They are Red!! Pretty soon I will have to start charging for all this wisdom!-- Darwin.

[Philby]

Ahh, I see your point Darwin. I need to start looking at the world through red coloured glasses.

My 2 y.o. daughter is attracted to the red Cole Clark like a bee to honey. 'Where's Daddy's red guitar?' is often heard around the house after it's been moved out of her reach. So maybe you're onto something there with red and the ladies, Darwin.

I could always shoot a trans red coat over the korina.......

[blargfromouterspace]

Sidemen - James Burton. Played with Ricky nelson, Elvis Presley, Emmylou Harris you name it. A certified legend.

Adrian Belew. PLayed in Zappa's band as well as on King Crimson's awesome 'Discipline' album. He has a fantastic, pure voice and can play guitar like a demon.
[youtube]OQTezHnMtQQ[/youtube]

Jim Campilongo. Made a big splash playing on an album by the Little WIllies, Norah Jones' country music side project. Inimitable, unique
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Sidewoman - Cindy Cashdollar. A woman, a pretty one at that, who plays lap steel guitar. Awesome.
[youtube]r9KVuLRRnUI[/youtube]


Korina guitars: I was happy to see these guitars, I'm a sucker for Korina. I'd go for the Bluesboy. While I'd love an ASAT Jr and Deluxe, I'd only ever get one with the saddle lock bridge on it. For me the tune-o-matic bridge is nothing but problem-o-matic. My main gripe with them is string breakage. Back in the day when I had a Les Paul and an ES335 I'd break strings at least once a month, but what can you expect when your strings are passing over what is essentially a blade at significant tension???

[sirmyghin]

Blarg coins new bridge prob-lo-matic!

[sam]

sidemen? Gotta go with Philby on Steely Dan and add the Eagles as well. Both of these bands had a revolving door of players that made their sound unmistakeable.

Korinas...the Jr and the Deluxe are very tempting. I do wonder why there are no saddle locks but understand trying to be unique. At least throw in a semi-hollow of some kind. How about a Z-3 version or hey why not a Will Ray version and call it a KorinaRay

[CGT]

Okay, explaining my none-of-the-above in the poll: I want to develop my own style on a single guitar so I am sticking to my one Legacy, mastering it and learning all its intricacies rather than getting distracted by other instruments.

[sirmyghin]

Okay, explaining my none-of-the-above in the poll: I want to develop my own style on a single guitar so I am sticking to my one Legacy, mastering it and learning all its intricacies rather than getting distracted by other instruments.

An interesting idea CGT, but to play devils advocate, what happens when you realize the instrument itself isn't important? Everything comes from upstairs, not the instrument. It your your approach and your ideas that make your style, not a guitar.

[CGT]

Okay, explaining my none-of-the-above in the poll: I want to develop my own style on a single guitar so I am sticking to my one Legacy, mastering it and learning all its intricacies rather than getting distracted by other instruments.

An interesting idea CGT, but to play devils advocate, what happens when you realize the instrument itself isn't important? Everything comes from upstairs, not the instrument. It your your approach and your ideas that make your style, not a guitar.

I agree with you that everything comes from upstairs, however the instrument is both a conduit and a medium. Fighting a guitar that doesn't play or sound the way one likes is not conducive to artistic and technical growth. In some ways, the Legacy is like an ideal Platonic guitar that is allowing me to play what I hear in my head. Unlike you, who is having his ideal guitar custom-built, I was lucky to find the find the perfect instrument ready made.

In essence, the guitar is like any other tool. Craftsmen and artists of all stripes prefer certain tools to others because they facilitate the end product. I feel that way about the Legacy, for now, it is the right tool for what I'm doing. And, as one friend put it so well before I bought the Legacy, I was spending far too much time looking and thinking about guitars that I didn't have, which cut into my limited playing time.

Right now, I am concentrating on improving my playing and using a single instrument provides a consistent platform that I can use to diagnose issues and to measure my progress. Sure, I can switch it up and play on the Gibson when I want to mess around with overdriven tones, but playing the Legacy without any effects through a clean solid state amp (or a good Twin Reverb simulation) is the best way I've found to improve my technique. Also the variety of tones offered by the Legacy allows me to explore a number of styles and inspires me to be more creative. It gives me plenty of headroom to grow and the neck is simply superb.

But in the final analysis it all comes down to one thing: the Legacy feels and sounds just right. After years of looking and trying a number of guitars (The legacy is my fifth electric) I have found the perfect beast. I can choose to accept that or I can obsess over tweaking, changing pups, or swapping for something better (more likely different than better, actually) or I can like Frank said and shut up and play my guitar.

[yowhatsshakin]

Thanks for all the vids folks. Loved them all. Suave Eddies last video showed a stellar band: Nick Lowe on bass, Jim Keltner on drum, and the aforementioned Ry Cooder in the other guitar seat. Reminds me of Joni Mitchell's band on her 'Shadows and Light' Tour: Don Alias on drums, Mike Brecker on sax and Lyle Mayes on keys. Oh, and a certain Jaco Pastorius on bass and Pat Metheny on guitar! Luther Dickinson I have also seen tearing up the guitar next to Rich Robinson while on tour with the Black Crowes. No slouch indeed. Adrian Belew I first heard not in the mentioned settings of Zappa and/or King Crimson but as the guitar player on David Bowie's Stage live album. Great player and I am always amazed about the kind of sounds/noises he is able to get out of a guitar.

On the Korina's: I agree G&L aims for the LP guys. The 'problem' of having to entice these people to buy a guitar with a long scale was mentioned already. Other problem in my opinion is that still very few people actually know about G&L in the first place and that they build these remarkable special instruments. Guess that just leaves more for us aficionados!

- Jos

[sirmyghin]

Okay, explaining my none-of-the-above in the poll: I want to develop my own style on a single guitar so I am sticking to my one Legacy, mastering it and learning all its intricacies rather than getting distracted by other instruments.

An interesting idea CGT, but to play devils advocate, what happens when you realize the instrument itself isn't important? Everything comes from upstairs, not the instrument. It your your approach and your ideas that make your style, not a guitar.

I agree with you that everything comes from upstairs, however the instrument is both a conduit and a medium. Fighting a guitar that doesn't play or sound the way one likes is not conducive to artistic and technical growth. In some ways, the Legacy is like an ideal Platonic guitar that is allowing me to play what I hear in my head. Unlike you, who is having his ideal guitar custom-built, I was lucky to find the find the perfect instrument ready made.

In essence, the guitar is like any other tool. Craftsmen and artists of all stripes prefer certain tools to others because they facilitate the end product. I feel that way about the Legacy, for now, it is the right tool for what I'm doing. And, as one friend put it so well before I bought the Legacy, I was spending far too much time looking and thinking about guitars that I didn't have, which cut into my limited playing time.

Right now, I am concentrating on improving my playing and using a single instrument provides a consistent platform that I can use to diagnose issues and to measure my progress. Sure, I can switch it up and play on the Gibson when I want to mess around with overdriven tones, but playing the Legacy without any effects through a clean solid state amp (or a good Twin Reverb simulation) is the best way I've found to improve my technique. Also the variety of tones offered by the Legacy allows me to explore a number of styles and inspires me to be more creative. It gives me plenty of headroom to grow and the neck is simply superb.

But in the final analysis it all comes down to one thing: the Legacy feels and sounds just right. After years of looking and trying a number of guitars (The legacy is my fifth electric) I have found the perfect beast. I can choose to accept that or I can obsess over tweaking, changing pups, or swapping for something better (more likely different than better, actually) or I can like Frank said and shut up and play my guitar.

Good answer, the incoming custom however, is not ideal, but I guess it is about as close as you can cram in a single guitar . Just another tool in the box really, a very versatile one however. I have plans to get a similar S-S-S one to go with it eventually, depending on how it goes maybe from the same builder. I tend to keep drastically different guitars around only for their sonic qualities, I don't play better or worse on any of them. It is all about when it comes time for me to record, high output vs low output, single coil vs humbucker timbre. My amp is pretty versatile so I can dial in close with any of the guitars just about, it is a judgement call on my part.

I am glad you found 'the guitar'. That is a serious accomplishment. I think had I not had the desire to get a 7 string the ASAT would be similar for me, do I greatly enjoy how it feels. Clean is good for most techniques, stuff like sweeping/raking and muting however, not so much. Those are almost better practiced with the gain up, because any failures in them will stand out, hard. Oddly I have been getting more into Jazz playing, so now I have started to use sweep techniques.

And incase you are wondering what is missing from the custom, I wanted to go H-S-P90 (H sized) with the pickups, but the is pretty much no such thing as a 7 string p90 out there.

[darwinohm]

GCT, you make a good point on how to focus on improving playing style. Sirmy's point is also valid. My experience is that I bought my first solid body guitar in 2006 and I I not played regular guitar in decades. I purchased a Fender American Deluxe V neck. It was a dream to play and my skill were anything but proficient. I kept working on it and suddenly I find myself at a new level. I made a CD of my own work three years ago. It did two things, It forced me to learn Pro Tools and It forced me to become a better guitar player. I started doing some lead work with our band last year. I have to admit my level of accomplishment has grown dramatically from 2006 and when I listen to my CD from 3 years ago, I am amazed how much smoother I have become. My CD is pretty decent and is Ginnys favorite between that and Senior Class which I posted during my last LR gig. What I notice is that I can hear stress in my playing at that time and now I am much more relaxed and you can hear it. The point is that I really developed on that guitar. As I have become more proficient I now setup a guitar and they are all set up pretty much the same and they all feel good. Radius , neck finish and other things do not bother. I may have preferences but these things do not get in the way. -- Darwin