Lunch Report Monday June 27, 2011

[willross]

Ok, day one. I live (most of the time) in a suburb of Minneapolis. It's nice here, but the humidity/temp swings are steep; approx -100°F to 105°F with lots of humidity mixed in. It's crazy that 200 miles away it could be parched and on fire! Lunch today will be compliments of a local French bakery: Chez Arnaud http://www.mygourmandise.com/

Now, onto sound and how to find it. Despite my age...uh experience, I'm still hunting for tones. I've already gone the whole "stripped-down to the basics" approach and this forum got me going again. King Of Tone!!!!! So I'm back to finding out what people use to get what they get.



Today, I'd like to start with Alex Lifeson's guitar sounds. "Middletown Dreams" and the reverb guitar make me want more. I know he was using Dean Markley amps and some type of delay at the time(MicMix, ADA, Lexicon Prime Time?). Also, he was using Charvel Strats with Bill Lawrence humbuckers http://www.billlawrenceonlinestore.com/ in the bridge. Can you believe that they recorded "Power Windows" in a stone room??? He used a 100 watt Galien Kruger combo w/ built-in reverb on that album too. Love that mid... I listened to "Something the Boy Said", by Sting and it has a similar guitar sound. Great stuff!

In the early 1970's, his main squeeze was a cream-colored Gibson ES-355 with various phaser and flanger pedals, a Cry Baby Wah Wah, along with Marshall 100 watt Super Lead amplifiers and 4x12 cabinets. For acoustic work, he used twelve-string guitars (acoustic and electric) and used a Boss CE-1 Chorus Ensemble then the Boss Dimension C. Then he went from passive to active pickups & solid-state amps. You know, the whole eighties arena rock route. This is where I depart. Although I like PRS, Les Pauls, etc., the TC Electronics G-Force rack multi-FX, TC Electronics 1210 spatial expander and a Loft 440 Delay Line/Flanger and what ever he had built into his Switchblade heads are not where I'm headed. Hey, I saw the Snakes & Arrows Tour in 2007. I'm just trying to get away from digital...at the moment.

So, what do you think? I have been going thru the various products from BBE, but need a lesson. Can these sounds be replicated with G&L/BBE products?

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It's time for: hideous pictures from the past! Past! Past! Here's one of mine (it's not the one with the iguana on my head).



Not exactly "Vintage", but as close as I could get. This was from my days with Levi John, my second teacher and band leader. good times and $$$. Look at that shirt! Wool & silk. I still have it and the Ovation. Tomorrow, I will dive a bit into my past as well as another artist I'm trying to steal some mojo from...


Cheers,

Will

[willross]

Just added:http://wildepickups.com/ for Bill & Becky Lawrence pickups. The other website notes that it is actually "Jzchak Wajcman" DBA'ing as "Bill Lawrence". What's that all about????


Cheers,

Will

[sirmyghin]

Ah Lifesons gear, as big a Rush fan as I am, not something I have really looked at parsay. I hard on the earlier albums ,the marshall back staged to some variety of Boogie, a early recto or something, but only for the studio side. A stone room sounds like a fun time, it would certainly get around a recording being 'too dry' in a hurry. I do the 'stripped down' tone thing by default. I don't have much in terms of pedals, mostly modulation. Chorus, as I am sure you know is pretty ever-present in Lifesons guitar work.

Snakes and Arrows was a great show, probably my favourite of the 3 I have seen (R30, S&A, Time Machine). He has recently returned to LPs, my only complaint is I forgot my earplugs and his tone was a bit trebbly, so it shredded my ears. The 80s tones were probably the worst of his imo, the whole wiry rack tone is not for me. It worked well with the sonic clusterfark that the synthy albums were I suppose.

Digital aversion, is becoming a bit less popular nowadays. Not to mention a bit less sensible, given the quality of ADA converters out there. Stuff like Strymon and Axe-Fx are good tokens as to what can now be achieved. I can understand early digital gear did some nasty stuff but nowadays it is easily transparent. I don't like racks and nonsense personally, as I hate wading through menus and like knobs, so I don't go for the Axe-FX personally, but will not let a pedal not being analog deter me in the slightest.

King of tone eh? I don't have a single drive/dist pedal on my board surprisingly. Wouldn't mind a TS type to use as a strong mid range boost though. It can give a tighter more singing quality to the boogie I keep around.

A lot of replicating Lifesons sound is to do with how he constructs arpeggios and uses open notes (whether they match or not, strictly speaking) to fill out the sound. I can get similar sonic feels plugging direct in to the boogie, or close enough for me. I have never been too picky about copping tones, and settle fairly easily with same 'vibe'. If you listen to early Dream Theater you can hear a lot of reminiscence to Lifeson, particularly tunes like Innocence Faded, Learning to Live and the like. The biggest thing I am missing (in both cases) is the chorus. I really need a chorus pedal and a new pedal, the Corona Chorus by TC electronic looks like it will fit the bill very very well. Drooling over a Strymon BlueSky too.... My amps reverb is good but I would like more control.

The ovations like that are cool looking guitars. Snazzy shirt too.


The Bill Lawrence thing is that they used to work together at some point, and split iirc. Both wanted to keep the Bill Lawrence name for brand association, and someone, both did or the like. A very confusing matter. Bill and Becky is typically regarded as 'the real deal'.

[willross]

Yeah, digital is so much further along. The "old school" 8bit stuff is cool too. It's everything in between that blows... KoT? Yeah, that pic is of me testing combinations, etc. Unless I'm going for a specific effect (delay, phaser, Lex, etc.), my guitars sound sweet alone or with a sprinkle of a clean drive... That Ovation went thru a transformation in 2003:




Cheers,

Will

[sirmyghin]

Carbon fiber, sweet. I have my eyes on a carbon fiber acoustic if I decide I want to start doing acoustic stuff again. Company called 'Emerald Guitars' in Ireland takes custom orders, and has very good prices overall. The idea of a guitar impervious to weather is very appealing. I like how tunable the actual material is too, in the hands of an experienced builder you can get near any tonal response.

[sickbutnottired]

I can't help with the Lifeson setup, but I have been working out of a long episode of running a totally stripped down rig.

It seems to me that there are a lot of quality digital products, but they often take a lot of detailed tuning. Which requires patience. Which I don't have.

[willross]

The Ovation's top split by the bridge and had to be replaced anyway. It is still the only one like this they ever did*. The CVT top was for Adamus, but they hooked me up yo!

I'm love/ hate with digital, but I know it is the future and now of recording...


Cheers,

Will

* I called recently about a graphite clip and they mentioned it. Ovation needs to make non-cutaways again...

[repoman]

Can't help you with the Lifeson setup. I'm a casual Rush fan but tend to favor his early tone. Saw them live only once in the early 80's. And although I suspect digital will continue to grow I can't provide much help there either. I favor/need the Keep-It-Simple-Stupid setup.


But I will contribute with an embarrassing photo from the past. Recently came across a stash of some old photos and this one certainly fits the bill. That's me in the high school jazz band fumbling my way thru the charts. We were probably playing the theme from the first Rocky movie as that was pretty standard fare on the school jazz band circuit in those days. Sadly, the bass was stolen a couple years after this photo was taken. And the shirt, thankfully, is also gone. I don't know what it was made of. Probably some form of polyester that would have burst into flames if I went anywhere near an open flame.

[blargfromouterspace]

I have no intention of ever getting into rack gear. Far too expensive and confusing for a simpleton like me. I reckon that you'd get close to that sound with a good amp and a couple of pedals without having to spend billions of hours learning to tweak your rack While I wasn't there, I'm willing to wager that you can get a better phaser/flanger whatever today than you could in the '70s.


I'm stuck at cotton shirts and polyester suits. One day soon I will step up the luxury ladder to a wool blend

[darwinohm]

Will, great start. Had a busy day as I have been perusing guitar shops for my next one, a difficult task as it has to be the perfect one and I am down to two to choose from. Then I helped Ginny with some gardening.

I am not a pedal guy and do clean stuff so It saves a little setup time and less to carry.

Nice Ovation and an interesting fix. Ovation has had top customer service. I bought a new Adamas 3 years ago that had loose bracing (in store damage) that looked perfectly new and bought it for next to nothing and sent it back to Ovation. They fixed it better than original and the cost was extremely reasonable. It is a sweet guitar.

Some great early career pictures from a couple of you today. Most of us wish that we had kept some. Darwin

[willross]

Repoman: I agree with you in regards to simplicity. I try to achieve the tones I want(I occasionally settle for close enough...) as simply as possible. I've done a bit of hired gun work and walking in and playing with minimal set-up is key... for me, at least.

Blarg: Some great work from you BTW. Really. Keep that up; we all may be seeing more of you soon enough. Silk or plastic; it's about the skills...

Darwin: I prefer clean unless I'm wearing more that one hat, so to speak. The New Hartford shop redesigned and rebuilt that one. Due to the deep bowl and no cut-away they had nothing to work with Ovation-wise. So they went Adamus instead. I love it...


Cheers,

Will

[Boogie Bill]

Rush is one band that I have never gotten deeply into. They do have some songs I like.

"Good" tone is just so subjective. There are a lot of ways to get it done--just look at how many different pedals there are that the "stars" use. I check out some of the gear diagrams in Guitar World Magazine, and I'm always tickled to find that many of them are just using basic Boss, Dunlop, and E-H effects on their boards.

I've seen so many guys bring huge racks of stuff to jams and sound awful. They don't understand what it takes to sond good live. You can't figure some of this stuff out in your bedroom--you have to have that experience of playing with others and blending in. Bedroom is different than recording than playing live.

I have a good collection of pedals, old and new. Got some of the BBE pedals from my lunch reports, and they are fine gear. For me, I have about nine pedals on my board, but my goal is to use them sparingly. And for the most part I do that--using most of them for only 4-5 songs per night. For example, I picked up a Boss Pitch Shifter/Harmonizer on my board that I only use for TWO songs. Not exactly cost effective--but it is a tremendously effective TOOL for those two songs. And since I'm not over-using it--it's very effective at creating a "Cool!" response from the audience.

A lot about tone is taste. Having good gear is important; knowing how to get the best out it--PRICELESS! I think knowledge is way under-rated. And I'm not talking about, "My guitar weighs 8.875932 lbs.; and was made on January 12, 1962, at 10:52 a.m. from a Unobtanium tree located 282 km. SSE of Hicksville, with pickups wound by Ed Frumpstein." Might be nice to know from a hobbyist's pont of view, but it means absolutely NOTHING from a PLAYER'S perspective.

At some point, the pursuit of tone becomes a moot point. I think you're better off spending the money you spent on a set of matched gold-plated, holy-grail NOS 6L6s--on LESSONS!!! Look, if you want to get a faster computer--learn to type 80WPM. It's a cheaper and more effective upgrade than anything you can get from IBM or Intel. We don't like that; it's not as much fun as buying new toys, but investing in yourself is always a better option than buying new toys. If you can reach a point where you can just say, "Here I am; this is what I play, and how I play, and this is how I sound." and be happy about it--well then, you've got something special going on.

And if you are doing music as a business, then there is something to be said for buying the cheapest piece of gear you can that will get the job done. Minimize your capital outlay--maximize your profits. And I'm not sure that Harry Dickwad, playing pool in the back of the club, gives a &*$% if a play a $4,000 Les Paul and a $2,500 Mesa amp or a $349 Epiphone through a Crate.

Of course, let me just add--do as I do, not as I say! LOL! I'd probably have a lot fewer guitars if I took my own advice.

I don't want to take the enjoyment out of it, because I enjoy guitars and gear as much as anyone. But using the same kind of easel and brushes that Leonardo Da Vinci used is not going to make me a great painter. Like Lance Armstrong says, "It's not about the bike!"

Bill

[zapcosongs]

Just wanted to stop in to say hi Will - before going off to bed. I was a volunteer today at a Cub Scout camp and while it was fun, well, I'm not as young as I used to be.

I can't really contribute much on your questions. I'm a basement player strictly, and though I own and enjoy a couple of pedals, I mostly plug right in and I've never given much thought to duplicating the sound or rig of any particular guitarist. Even if I had the knowledge, I'd just end up sounding like crappy ole' me - only with a lighter wallet and with less time to actually play.

Great start. Excellent old photo. I'm going to try to dig one up to post later this week (I need to borrow a scanner!) - ed

Repo: We did that Rocky thing too. And my stage band guitar (a '66 Jag) was stolen as well. But I still love polyester.

Blarg: Yeah, wool. That's the ticket!

[willross]

Bill: Good points. I used a Hondo Fame & a F**der Acoustic w/ Dean Markley sound-hole PU to play out for a few years. I had fun spray painting that Hondo more than a few times...

Zap: Scouting rocks! I was in Troop 60. As for specific artist's sounds, some times I'm just curious. Some times I learn something too...

[astutzmann]

Being Canadian, 54 years old and growing up about 3 miles from where Geddy and Alex grew up, we heard alot about Rush, but I wasnt a huge fan back then, mores o now.

What's interesting is that I took my Bluesboy to the luthier I use (and like alot), for a setup. In the back of his shop was a Gibson 355, the neck looked perfect, the body was stripped and was obviously being redone for the owner. I went to look at it, the truss rod cover said "Alex Liefson".

I asked if it was his and he said that he was under non-disclosure, so couldn't say, but had a big grin on his face!

I understand that he has rebuilt several of them for him. The luthier is a good 100 miles from where Alex lives, so he must be good, ha.

The reason I know where Alex lives, is one of my best friends does custom wine sellers and has just completed a wine cellar for Alex's home. Stunning, I have seen the pics. I guess Geddy is a HUGE wine guy and Alex buys whatever Geddy tells him to, lol Small world.

Way cool!

[willross]

Alf, great story. I'll toast to that!


Cheers,

Will