Lunch Report Thursday 2011.06.23

[Aussie]

Hi all

Lunch
another of those roast beef sandwiches - this time with HP Sause - a banana (which at $5 each are still something of an extravagance after the Queensland floods), with the usual Lemon Tea.

G&L Dealers
To the best of my knowledge its been a l-o-n-g time since there has been a G&L stockist or dealer anywhere in Western Australia. While I was browsing at a local music store a few weeks back I asked the manager why no one in Perth handled G&L and he told me that he had recently entered into an arrangement with the Australian G&L distributor and was now able to take and submit orders for G&L's. When I asked why he didn't have any G&L's on show or amy promotional material visible he oferred two reasons - first, because G&L were an unknown brand in WA it was too big a financial risk for them to invest in the stock, and second it was very clear to them that their major supplier of single coil guitars would be "unhappy" to see him stocking a directly competing product. This certainly isn't the largest music store in town but they are not small either. While I'm not happy about it, I can certainly understand why a dealer might think its not worth the risk.

Do the G&L dealers in your part of the world also stock the most popular brand of single coil guitars? Or is it a case of one or the other? Do they carry a good range of G&L's? Basses and guitars?

Active vs Passive
Seeing JonC's Sabre in yesterdays Lunch Report got me thinking about active pickups. As with the "extra" string discussion on Tuesday, it seems to me that active pickups have been more common in basses than in guitars, although again a general exception being the metal guitars where EMG's have established a strong presence. I have one guitar with an EMG 81/85 pair which I think work well for modern hard rock songs and with modern style solid state amps. I don't like them quite so much with other music or amp styles though

Do active pickups have more to offer for bass players?
Or is it as Brock and Sirmyghin suggested on Tuesday - guitar players are by nature just more conservative than their bass playing bretheren?
Do you have a preference for active or passive? Do you own both?

A Brief History ... (1977)
Fast forward four years and UK punk is starting to raise its head. Perth develops a small underground punk scene lead by one Dave Faulkner and his band The Victims. Aussies will know Dave who later went on to found the hugely successful pop rock band the Hoodoo Gurus. Anyway, in our 21st year my bass player mate and I decide to tap into this new scene and set up a side project dabbling in the gothic punk area.

Quite different from what we were doing with our "main" band but in retrospect we weren't all that punky really. I'm still not quite getting the rock thing though

black river.mp3

night time.mp3

Time for me to hit th sack ... so I'll catch you tomorrow.
cheers, Robbie

[gitman001]

Hey Aussie,

Sorry not to chime in earlier in the week, things are crazy as the last week of school is upon us (woo-hoo)

G&L Dealers,

In the town i live in we have a great dealer, they have been selling G&L's almost from the start - for like 25 years i think. They always have 4-5 american and a ton of tributes, but the town i am in is not huge some sometimes the american ones are around for awhile. From any of the shops over here in canada, it is usually a case of one or the other - if they have the "most popular" they generally don't carry G&L's.

Active vs Passive,

I have yet to play an active guitar system, i just don't see them around that much. I would hope they don't sound that much better or i have been missing out all these years! I am mostly a single coil player, i think EMG does make a single coil option but i imagine that is even more rare than the h/b's.

Thanks for posting the tunes, they have been a nice diversion form the insanity of the week.

Scott

[sirmyghin]

Hi all
G&L Dealers
Do the G&L dealers in your part of the world also stock the most popular brand of single coil guitars? Or is it a case of one or the other? Do they carry a good range of G&L's? Basses and guitars?

The dealer I got my G&L from deals Ibanez,PRS,G&L,Godin, and some others ans Mark Bass, Peavey, Trace, Orange and Buddah on the amp side of things. So a very different store in many ways, he seems to do well enough though. I had a guy at Long and Macquade tell me they did not have G&Ls but they had 'Real Leo Fender Fender's'. I believe my retort was something akin to no thanks, the G&L is a better guitar.

Active vs Passive

Do active pickups have more to offer for bass players?
Or is it as Brock and Sirmyghin suggested on Tuesday - guitar players are by nature just more conservative than their bass playing bretheren?
Do you have a preference for active or passive? Do you own both?

Most basses I have seen do not have active pickups, but active preamp systems onboard. The pickups themselves are your run of the mill passive pickups, but the onboard preamp functions as a EQ at your finger tips. These are different from your standard active pickups, which typically have a preamp built in, and are non adjustable. The preamp in my Carvin is great, and don't sound much different than passive (on pull) when running it all flat, given the volume is set at unity. Between playing styles on bass, I feel the need to alter my EQ fairly often comparatively, and having that power at my fingers is a very nice tool.

On guitars, I don't feel the need to switch this EQ at all while playing different styles, it is a lot closer to one size fits all, at least the way I set things up. I have seen some guitars with similar preamps to the basses, but not many, and mostly Carvins again. I can't really understand the aversion to active pickups that many players intrinsically have, I mean they have had 35 years to get used to the things (EMGs came out in the mid 70s afterall). I feel they all have their place, the really weak magnets and such of EMGs reduces a lot of the downsides such as string damping a fair deal. My stable is currently all passive pickups however, as I don't much like batteries in my instruments. My bass is 18V, my incoming has a 9V for the piezo.

[Ahryn]

The only local G&L dealer I know of doesn't really stock any big names like Fender or Gibson, they mostly deal in G&L, Eastman, Eastwood, peavey and samick.

So no real competition there.

Active Vs Passive now there is an interesting question, same one I asked my self when I first started looking at electrics.

I found that what I really liked about active pickups was that sort of glassy clarity they had with the ceramic PuPs but i didn't like the idea of changing batteries all the time (now with my ASAT I get the best of both worlds!) but they do strike me as being real "metal friendly" guitars if you catch my drift...

Can't really comment on the bass side of things.

Night time is a real groovy track, too bad it was just a side project

[suave eddie]

Do the G&L dealers in your part of the world also stock the most popular brand of single coil guitars? Or is it a case of one or the other? Do they carry a good range of G&L's? Basses and guitars?

The dealer I ordered from said that Fender would not allow him to stock both. I'm not sure what G&L's position is.......possibly the same.

[glvourot]

There are three G&L dealers in town here and none of them stock Fenders. They are all small shops, and sadly one of them didn't even know about SC-2's. Despite the fact they had a big G&L banner in their front window. I mentioned that maybe they should bring themselves up to speed on products they sell. Pretty weak.

[suave eddie]

I mentioned that maybe they should bring themselves up to speed on products they sell. Pretty weak.

That wouldn't be Deep Cove, would it?
They couldn't even tell me what the specs were on the guitars that THEY ordered when I was attempting to try different neck shapes.

[bassman]

Active electronics are more popular for bass players because we have more to deal with in terms of room acoustics, etc..
Bassists tend to want a clean distortion-free sound more so than guitarists.
Guitarists don't like the brittleness of active guitars. They are very different than traditional passive guitars and active pickups don't distort in predictable ways for guitar players.

G&Ls are hard to find new around here. Fender does dominate and I can't really blame some small shops for carrying Squires and Mexican Strats over G&Ls. these guitars tend to be priced lower than comparable G&Ls.

[sickbutnottired]

Nice week going.

For me, active guitar pickups are a solution without a problem. I have no experience with them, and don't know why i would experiment with them, at least over all the other stuff I want to try.

G&L dealers? Not within a 500 miles....

[Philby]

Hi Robbie,

Did you guys beat Nick Cave to the whole Gothic thing? Black River sounds like something Nick would be proud of.

Remind me what a banana tastes like again? Damned natural disasters. I miss bananas.

Re. active pickups - I've never tried them. I've been intrigued by the active mid-boost circuit Eric Clapton used in his strats during the mid 90's but I've never gone as far as investigating active pickups. Apart from EMG, I don't really know who makes them. And I don't like the idea of batteries in a guitar.

Neither of the G&L dealers I've found here in Melbourne stock the 'other' Leo brand, tho you might see the odd S/H one on the wall sometimes. They generally have a US Legacy, S-500, ASAT and ASAT Special on the wall, and the same again in the Tribute range. Would I buy from either of these dealers? Not unless their prices dropped by 50% to reflect the current buying power of the Oz dollar. One of the dealers is genuinely into G&L and recommends them at every opportunity. The other dealer couldn't really care less and seems more content to push their high volume brands. Sadly, the second store is probably doing more business.

Thanks for mentioning Dave Faulkner. The Hoodoo Gurus were one of my favourite Aussie bands during the 80's.

[youtube]cepSg0HswdE[/youtube]

[zapcosongs]

Hey Robbie -
Long day here, so while I promise to be brief, I may not make much sense. (more of the same, in other words).

First, I liked Black River lots more than Night Time, but that's probably just a matter of my current mood. Interestingly, I find myself wondering about the drums. Man or machine? (btw, I liked the guitar riff running through Night Time plenty. Just not my song tonight).

G&L Dealers: I don't usually go into music stores much, but I do sometimes and I have yet to see a new G&L on a stand or hanging on a wall. I found G&L by happy accident, and buy carefully on reputation from a distance, and have seldom been disappointed.

Active Pickups: Never tried them. There are guitar and bass parts that I have heard featuring them that I have liked, but one more thing to think about (batteries, for example) makes them both more and less than I need to mess with. Hard to miss what you've never had, anyway.

Anyway, you've got me hankering for Roast Beef and wishing I could play guitar and feel music half as much as you do. Dammit. - ed

[sam]

Hi Robbie,

Busier than a one armed pape hanger so unable to post this week and trying to read all yer other posts.

Three G&L dealers I know of in Atlanta area and two of the three carry the popular single coils and the closest to my house doesn't carry the majors. I guess city population and shop revenue drives what they can carry anyway.

Never had too much experience with passive p-ups but like the EMG's I've pulled off the rack at various shops. I can see them more on the metal side.

Ah... Hoodoo Gurus great band back in the day, oh the angst of "I was the one". More power pop or even low end grunge than goth to me. I still have a Blow Your Cool cassette that recently converted to cd so they will continue to live loud in my car and home stereo.

[jonc]

i had my share of pointy headstock guitars in the 80's, complete with Kahler or a Floyd Rose, and EMG's with the "fat" control . they were good pickups for certain things but they always lacked a certain depth and character that good passive pups have. while i don't have any other guitars with active pups or want any, i view the Sabre as very different from guitars fitted with EMG's or other actives in that Leo designed all the elements in the Sabre to work together as a system. the differently sized neck and bridge pups along with the electronics make the Sabre an extremely expressive guitar and the voice and power on tap are remarkable, but it's the nuances the guitar offers that make it so flexible. truly one of the best Leo designs imho but like guitars with actives in general, one with limited appeal.

[glvourot]

Suave Eddie,

Yeah Deep Cove was one of the guilty parties. They had some G&L's in stock but the only person there was a receptionist who had zero knowledge about guitars. Bone Rattle was the shop that had the G&L banner in the window and didn't know SC-2's existed. I can't remember the name of the shop in Coquitlam, but they were the ones who seemed to know their stuff, although I would have had to order one in. If I was willing to be patient I might have gone through them. I bought my SC-2 from guitar adoptions, and found my S-500 at L&M three days after the owner had traded it in for something else.

P.S. Hoodoo Gurus.... Like wow, wipe out. Forgot about those guys, my brother got me onto them. Maybe its time to revisit !

[blargfromouterspace]

Loving the tunes Robbie, keep them coming! Black River sure is a dark tune. It always surprises me that so much excellent gloomy music comes out of W.A., where the weather is so nice virtually all the time.

I don't think I've ever played a guitar with active pickups - unless Lace Sensors are active (are they???) and I like them. The idea of having a battery in the guitar puts me off. I don't like batteries at all.

[Aussie]

Great discussion from everyone again today, and thanks for comments on the tracks.

Bassman - good comments on why bass players like active and guitarists don't. Makes perfect sense.

Ahryn - Good call on the ASAT delivering the best of both worlds

Ed - Man or Machine? Machine of these tracks but we did add a real drummer and a girl keyboard palyer/ singer at a later date.

For the Hoodoos fans .. I must try and find some of Faulkner's stuff with The Victims for you

Edit: found one
[youtube]NrD6TSprWxc[/youtube]


Cheers, Robbie

[suave eddie]

glvourot
I had the same experience with Deep Cove...it was almost like a front for another business.....I don't know how they sell any instruments.

I'm surprised at your experience at Bone Rattle.....was the owner there at the time (the British fellow)? He is a very enthusiastic G&L supporter. I actually ordered mine from there, but as I am still waiting I won't have a full report until it arrives. My biggest beef with them is that there are no good amps to play through.
The closest store to you with the biggest G&L inventory is Tommy's Guitar Shop down in Everett, WA. He is another G&L enthusiast and stocks several U.S. models with various different options. He also has a great selection of amps, including some vintage. I almost ordered from him but eventually decided to go local for convenience reasons.