Lunch Report Tuesday 2011.06.21

[Aussie]

Welcome back my friends ...

Lunch
As we approach the end of financial year I have a few time critical projects, so today I decided to work from home to avoid distractions. No one else was home so I just raided the fridge and threw a few slices of roast beef between a couple of slices of bread. Only addition was some ground black pepper. Washed it down with the usual lemon tea while I checked through the latest repsponses to yesterday's report.


G&L Topic - What Makes a G&L a G&L
I've seen them occassionally in the past but just lately there have been quite a few used Made in Japan Tribute guitars on Ebay AUS - in fact over the last few weeks there have been three S500's. At $500 including a hard case, I thought the prices were reasonable (for AUS) and was almost ready to pull the trigger on one for my son when I noticed the bridge didn't look right. I thought that a previous owner must have swapped it out, but then I noticed that all three that were listed had the same bridge.



From a bit of research it seems that unlike the Korean/Indonesian Tributes that are made for the world market, the Japanse made Tributes sold in Japan don't have the DFV or Saddle Lock bridges but use a Gotoh bridge. More research and it looks like the G&L Premium range sold in Japan also uses the Gotoh bridge. The basses do however seem to use the saddle lock.

I don't know what the rationale is for that but for me it was a deal breaker and I didn't bid. Wasn't so much an issue about the bridge as it was about the guitar just not being "G&L" enough.

So what makes a G&L a G&L? How much can be swapped out either by the manufacturer or an owner before it's not really what we'd consider to be a G&L


General Topic - Fives and Sevens
I've posed this question before - maybe here maybe somehere else, I can't recall for sure - but we have quite a few new folk here and I'm into recycling .

There have been a few discussions lately about the number of strings on guitars and basses. Traditionally, most people would think of guitars as having six strings and basses having four. However five string basses are now commonplace across all genres. The idea of an extra string on guitars, however, hasn't received the same level of support outside the metal players - although jazz player George Van Eps did play a seven string Gretsch in the '60s.

Why do you think 5 string basses have won more general accepatance than 7 string quitars?
Is it an issue of playing chords vs playing single notes?
Or perhaps simple ergonomics and the limitations on fretboard widths and string spacing for the average player?

For the bass players - what are your thoughts on 4 vs 5 strings? My bass player mate flat out refuses to use a 5 string.
Guitar players - Have you tried a 7 (or even 8) string guitar? Thoughts?


A Brief History of .... Mine (1972)
Yesterday I posted a clip of my most recent piece. Today is what I consider to be the first real song I wrote. I had just turned 16yo at the time and the girl who sang it was 15yo. There's a lot about this that makes me cringe but overall I'm still pretty pleased with it - after all it is my first born . Excuse the audio quality as it is salvaged from a long lost cassette tape.

Empty Streets.mp2

The girl who sang on that track has gone on to a respectable career as a singer/songwriter/producer ... Here she is now

[youtube]KXvr6QkiR6Q[/youtube]

Time for bed here so .... until tomorrow.
cheers, Robbie

[sirmyghin]

Just getting breakfast myself after a very late night, lots of work and a good book is a bad combination in tandem.

Strings and things. I play a 5 string bass, but lately, it just isn't enough. I would like to get a 6, I even tinker with the idea of getting a 7 string bass. That one is getting a bit outside a band setting, but my goals lately have been solo touch style playing, chords and melodies simultaneously. Think Stanley Jordan if you will, chapman sticks (which I might not mind getting ahold of either). You gain a whopping 3 note choices (and 5 semi tones, typically) per string, so I can't understand the opposition from other musicians. The big thing is that you have 3 more note choices PER position too, that part is huge. I am pretty good at running around the fretboard, and there have been a few cases where I have actually run out of fretboard on my bass (5 string, 24 fret), fortunately I am fairly accurate with harmonics beyond the end of the fretboard on the fly (Eric Johnson does this irrc, fret a note, hit the 1/2 way node is easiest, so fret 24, strike and place a node at 36 for example).

7 strings are another interesting thing, I am firstly not a metal player, although some metal elements do find their way into my playing. I listen to it, but do not sit down and play it parsay. I have what I hope will be an exquisite custom 7 string being built, it should be complete in a few weeks, and I await it anxiously. Playing a 5 did something for my bass playing, it opened a world of possibility and it also changed slightly how I approached the instrument, in a very good way. In a short time I made leaps and bounds of progress which I hadn't had in years, and delved deep into other styles (like touch style as mentioned). I am hoping to capture some similar effects with the 7 string guitar, and think of the voicings and embellishments you can pull off. I have gone so far as to get a tremol-no and piezo pickups on the 7, so I can toggle between drop A and standard B for chord voicings, Drop A facilitating slightly 2nd inversion chords (which are pretty simple as is but are not weak /passing chords like 1st inversions).


What makes a G&L a G&L, for me it is the superior hardware and the pickups, so I guess we are about in the same boat. Oh and the headstock being 25% more dangerous than a run of the mill fender.

Seeing as you are throwing something older out there, I'll follow suit today I guess and swallow my improvements for the time being. I wrote this one for the wife some year or so ago as she wanted a tune. This one turned out pretty good except for the quickly laid improv bassline (leads were also improv, I used to do my recording very off the cuff. My work is mostly instrumental, infact everything currently recorded (or at least anything post teens) is. There were some years in there I was away from playing.

http://soundclick.com/share.cfm?id=8714966
(oops wrong song at first)
That chick has a high voice for certain . There is something about female singers that usually rubs me the wrong way in music, not sure what it is but I rarely enjoy a female lead.

[Brock]

So what makes a G&L a G&L?

1. MFD pickups
2. Bridges

That's oversimplified, but that's what makes a G&L to me.

[CGT]

Duh! The name on the headstock makes it a G&L! But seriously, it's the quality. As a Legacy player I have to say that, along with Fender's Mark Knopfler signature model, the Legacy is the best Strat on the planet.

With respect to more strings, I tend to defer to a friend of mine who says, "Learn to play six first." I'm a traditionalist. I like my basses at 4 and my guitars at 6. A ten-string Stick though can be a lot of fun, but I've only logged a few hours on one of those.

[Ahryn]

Both Brock and CGT are right but I believe that the build quality goes into it as well because lets face it you put Kinmans and a Glendale bridge with Callahan saddles on an ASAT classic it will still be a G&L through and through.

It is only with tribute series that I can see the lines start blurring...

[shawn500]

I have to agree with what was said above.....The MFD's are a masterpiece. Not sure if that's what makes a G&L a G&L, because you can put them in other guitars. A combination of the pickups, plus the unique G&L hardware, and top it off with the workmanship and attention to detail, and that my friend, is a G&L!!!

I'm not much on 7 string bass. I've seen a few bands with them, and it competes too much with the guitar. Sounds too busy.
5 strings are cool though!

[sirmyghin]

I'm not much on 7 string bass. I've seen a few bands with them, and it competes too much with the guitar. Sounds too busy.
5 strings are cool though!

The frequency space is a fair bit different, the ratios of fundamental to harmonic content are pretty drastic. While I would be using it as a solo instrument (for 1 man compositions) they do quite well when guitars start digging deep, they go down, you go up and over and have some fun . Bass need not be below guitar (jazzers have know this for a very long time), that is the point really, but the guitar (electric) you get a lot more overtones (due to shorter scales, smaller strings, and less tension on said strings). But guitarists love to boost their bass (near useless with the weak fundamental) and play lower, so a little devils advocate can't hurt. A regular 4 string bass, at its lowest is only 1 octave below guitar as it is, a 7 string to a standard bass is only a 5th lower, but the timbre is nowhere near the same.

The long and short of it is, is it the same note? Yes, is it the same sonically? No, not even close.

[shawn500]

I think the bands I've seen had their guitars tuned down, and were playing similar parts, thus making a big sonic soup!!

[darwinohm]

Robbie, Ginny made me an excellent sandwich for lunch today. I spent most of the day working on her scooter.

Nice cut your first song. Sweet guitar work and the lady has a sweet voice although much more mature in her video.

I play mostly 5 string bass now. I like the low B and if you have a good amp it really gives a solid low note. Strictly 6 sting on guitar and I have no interest in 7.

G&L to me is quality woods and quality build. The pickups and bridges are a bonus. I have a 2003 Asat Special in a Tribute and I believe that it was made in Korea. It is a nice guitar although I have replaced the tuners. Workmanship is quality.-- Darwin

[sirmyghin]

I think the bands I've seen had their guitars tuned down, and were playing similar parts, thus making a big sonic soup!!

Yeah a lot of folks grab ERGs tune them as low as they can and make mudd pie out of music. The more range everyone has the more work EQing to keep everything great becomes, I mean 2 electric guitars can be enough work as is.

[blargfromouterspace]

Great tune Robbie, I really enjoyed it. Cool vibe going on in it and the guitar playing is fantastic.

For me a G&L is a guitar that was made in the G&L factory, be it the one in California, Japan, Korea or Indonesia. I've swapped the MFD's out of all of mine, and one has a replacement bridge. They're still G&L guitars.

One of the bass players I play with wants a 5 string so he can get lower notes on songs where I use drop-D tuning or the other guitarist is using his baritone guitar. I agree with Sirmy that while the notes on the bass and baritone might be the same, they're different sonically. However when this happens on stage it can cause a certain degree of confusion to the ear and is best avoided.

[zapcosongs]

I really enjoyed your youthful song, Robbie. Because it was a bit difficult to discern the lyrics, I would like to see what the heck she was singing. Your playing and writing though were clearly beyond your years. For me, it was kind of a cross between Stairway to Heaven and Renaissance (which I think is cool).

Regarding the Japanese Tribute with the non-G&L bridge, it would be a deal-breaker for me too. The only G&L I have without a DF or Saddle-Lock (Lock Tight?) bridge is my Bluesboy. While a favorite of mine, I've often though that the Bluesboy might be a better model (and more G&L) with a REAL G&L bridge.... - ed

[Brock]

I was in a hurry and missed some choice questions for the day.

Why do you think 5 string basses have won more general acceptance than 7 string guitars?

Bass players are on average less tied to the past than their guitar playing counterparts.

For the bass players - what are your thoughts on 4 vs 5 strings?

I think the low B needs more than 35 inches, so I'm not a fan of typical implementations. Once the B gets to around 38 inches (whatever the Dingwall scale is) it starts to work correctly.

I have a 5 string, and it is tuned EADGC.

-Brock

[Brock]

For me a G&L is a guitar that was made in the G&L factory, be it the one in California, Japan, Korea or Indonesia.

...but what if the factory in Korea or Indonesia was actually Cort's factory, because there is no G&L owned or operated factory in those countries?

[Philby]

Hi Robbie,

That's a pretty impressive tune (and playing) for your first one, even more so for a 16 y.o. When I was 16 I was busy copying riffs from 80's big hair bands, playing sport, and wondering how to talk to girls .

I've seen those MIJ Tributes on Aussie E-Bay and thought they looked like pretty good guitars. I didn't realise the bridges were Gotoh till you pointed it out. Even so, Japanese quality control is always high so I imagine they'd be well put together.

As far as what makes a G&L, I tend to agree with Jamie - a G&L designed guitar made in a G&L approved factory with G&L oversight. I've taken the MFD's out of my S-500 but it's still a G&L, though probably not strictly an S-500 anymore.

I'm happy with 4 strings on a bass and 6 on a guitar. The thought of any more or less kinda makes my head hurt.

[blargfromouterspace]

For me a G&L is a guitar that was made in the G&L factory, be it the one in California, Japan, Korea or Indonesia.

...but what if the factory in Korea or Indonesia was actually Cort's factory, because there is no G&L owned or operated factory in those countries?

It still says G&L on the headstock, and they're made to G&L's specifications and therefore, IMO, they're still G&L guitars.

[Aussie]

Wow ... some really interesting comments and discussion today. Thanks to everyone who participated.

G&L Topic
Seems to be a common view that what defines G&L is more than just the component parts but an overall commitment to quality and workmanship

General Topic - 5 and 7

Bass players are on average less tied to the past than their guitar playing counterparts.

Ouch!

Empty Streets
Thanks for the comments quys.

I would like to see what the heck she was singing

In the early '70's post hippy era Perth was awash with cult groups offering comfort and enlightenment to young folk looking to find themselves. This song was the story of a friend of ours who was something of a lost soul (first verse) and hooked up with one of these groups who offered her answers and fulfilment if she joined them (second verse).

cheers, Robbie

[sirmyghin]

General Topic - 5 and 7

Bass players are on average less tied to the past than their guitar playing counterparts.

Ouch!

[/quote]

I think Brock makes a good point there, from my experiences anyway guitarists were much more likely to make snarky comments regarding such things.