String action height & tone

[Dr B]

I've heard a few people around talking about getting their action height as low as possible and how easy it makes the guitar to play. I am sure it does, but I've been told by one musician that it can alter tone.

He said to me (and he is a knowledgable chap) that you need to trade off two opposing forces - the need for easier playing with the need for as good a tone as you can get. Having the very very lowest action is not necessarily good for tone (he said) as the string cannot move as far between finger and fretboard. However, if the action is too high it generates other problems.

When my USA Legacy came the other week I noticed the action was just a fraction or so higher than I was used to. However, it will be a few weeks before I get to my guitar man so I have been playing it and actually, I think I have accomodated to it and some aspects of my playing have become easier for my hands. I might not alter it after all. I would have struggled with it if I were a complete begininer - but its actually quite easy to accommodate to it.

Where do you stand on the issue of action height for tone as well as playability? Do you just set it as low as it goes and be done with it, do you experiment with it, do you like it high? when was the last time you tried a different action height for a period of time to see if you could accommodate to it and it might bring benefits?

[suave eddie]

Unless I'm missing something I would think that no matter how high or low your action is, assuming you use the same pick attack, and there is no buzzing, your string would be vibrating the same.

[jonc]

i like a factory or slightly higher action using either 10's (or sometimes 11's) on my electrics. i find this provides a somewhat rounder sound and better sustain although i'm not sure why this is so. i do know that i like the feel of getting under the strings and the bit more of a bounce against the fretboard that a higher action seems to provide. i'm partial to "piano-like" tones and a higher action gets me there though it's obviously not for everyone.

[Ahryn]

All of my guitars have the same action as when I got them, My Norman apparently has medium high action I have been told, I like the feel of dominating the string when chording.

(also on acoustic I can understand the tone thing as higher action can drive the top better, or so I've heard)

On my Yammy 12'er the action is much higher than my Norman, great for slide work with it in D minor, very spooky.

My classic vibe has the lowest action but it doesn't bug me at all.

On a very low action guitar it feels like I am not doing anything, some people like that.

I prefer the fight although from what G&L necks I have played the action and the size of the frets creates the perfect balance for me I look forward to leaning a finer technique when mine comes in.

[Dr B]

Unless I'm missing something I would think that no matter how high or low your action is, assuming you use the same pick attack, and there is no buzzing, your string would be vibrating the same.

Actually - I'm not sure that's true. The string travels further with a higher action and the physicall forces and impacts to the neck wil be different (we are not talking huge differences - but different). So hammering on from things linke an open string to a fretted note would be different (for example).

[sirmyghin]

Unless I'm missing something I would think that no matter how high or low your action is, assuming you use the same pick attack, and there is no buzzing, your string would be vibrating the same.

Actually - I'm not sure that's true. The string travels further with a higher action and the physicall forces and impacts to the neck wil be different (we are not talking huge differences - but different). So hammering on from things linke an open string to a fretted note would be different (for example).

What you get with high action is bad intonation, not different tone. For a note to sound at a pitch, it needs a length, a mass, and a tension. You have to stress the strings more to fret a note, and the guitar already has imperfect intonation by default. Gibson Les Pauls are famous for this, due to having a nut that is too high on the G string. This causes terrible intonation and really off sounding chords, very noticable in the lower register, and as we are only talking about the nut this obviously doesn't take a whole lot. Unless your strings are so low they choke out, this one has a good home in internet myth wars (along with satin vs gloss, nitro vs poly and various other finish vs tone debates and let's not forget capacitor material!). This one is fueled by a lot of older players using high action, but they use high action as they needed it with vintage radii. Otherwise all your bends choke out and then yes, the tone sucks, as the string isn't vibrating. Otherwise, it isn't going to do a thing (except screw with pitch if you take it too extremes, which guitarists are very prone to doing as they 'hear the difference').

Big strings, big tone is another very popular one. Jimmy Page and Billy Gibbons use .008s.... What does that tell us?

[Dr B]

What you get with high action is bad intonation, not different tone.

I guess it all depends what you mean by 'high'. Mine has perfect intonation, but its got 'higher' action relatively speaking to my Tribute. However, it might still not be what you would describe as 'high'.

[sirmyghin]

What you get with high action is bad intonation, not different tone.

I guess it all depends what you mean by 'high'. Mine has perfect intonation, but its got 'higher' action relatively speaking to my Tribute. However, it might still not be what you would describe as 'high'.

Depends where you are on the fretboard, 1mm at the nut might be a lot. I would think as long as you aren't skirting much higher than 3-4mm it won't do much (at 12). I have a bad habit of letting my bass get really far out of whack because of that old first bass. I just don't notice how far the neck has moved.

[Dr B]

Good point

One of the things that has struck me is mow much I seem to be enjoying the higher action. Imagine the following scenario. I'm playing a solo and my first finger is on a low string (say A for the sake of discussion), straight after I need to play a high E string with my pinky for a big bend. To do these big bends I really need to get right on and even under the string. The higher action helps my hands get on the strings under scenario's like this and I am far more consistent with the higher action. The bends flow better.

So one thing is, I've had my eyes opened as to what my hands (now I can play alittle) might be best suited for. I used to default to a 'lower action is best cos things are easier' mode of thinking - I think that's over-simplistic.

Chords are fine to, at least so far

[sirmyghin]

Good point

One of the things that has struck me is mow much I seem to be enjoying the higher action. Imagine the following scenario. I'm playing a solo and my first finger is on a low string (say A for the sake of discussion), straight after I need to play a high E string with my pinky for a big bend. To do these big bends I really need to get right on and even under the string. The higher action helps my hands get on the strings under scenario's like this and I am far more consistent with the higher action. The bends flow better.

So one thing is, I've had my eyes opened as to what my hands (now I can play alittle) might be best suited for. I used to default to a 'lower action is best cos things are easier' mode of thinking - I think that's over-simplistic.

Chords are fine to, at least so far

One exercise I recommend, that is very good but quite difficult is to play some without your thumb on the neck. What this will do is really train your fingers to when a note is fretted. You may not have the issue, but a lot of players do where they overfret, slightly sharp notes, or just resign to playing on small frets so they can push to the fingerboard without any issues. G&Ls however, have big frets (they look identical to my other 6100 fretwire axes), so if you push hard the notes will sharp. This can be really good for training your finger to realize when a note is fretted, and not needing to go further as you will end up have the neck run away on you. As I said, you might already do this fret lightly/properly, but if you don't think will help your playing become a lot more fluid, because you aren't tensing muscles heavily. It is properly more important a skill with higher action, as you need to differentiate between string tension and feel more finely.

[blargfromouterspace]

To do these big bends I really need to get right on and even under the string. The higher action helps my hands get on the strings under scenario's like this...

I would imagine that it is the larger frets that are helping you get 'under' the string more than high action. My reasoning is that regardless of how high the action is you still need to have the string on the fret to perform a bend.

[Dr B]

That's a very good point. The neck is a joy to play. If you were to tell me, say a couple of years ago that bigger frets and a slightly higher action would suit my hands I would not have believed you.

I played vintage frets on some guitars and they are really nice as well - so i was thinking that might be the way to go. I guess it just underlines the fact that you just have to play these things to discover what works for you.

I am glad I tried a Legacy before I ordered this one, but the one that came is way better than the one I tried - for reasons I have not worked out.

[sickbutnottired]

One exercise I recommend, that is very good but quite difficult is to play some without your thumb on the neck. What this will do is really train your fingers to when a note is fretted. You may not have the issue, but a lot of players do where they overfret, slightly sharp notes, or just resign to playing on small frets so they can push to the fingerboard without any issues. G&Ls however, have big frets (they look identical to my other 6100 fretwire axes), so if you push hard the notes will sharp. This can be really good for training your finger to realize when a note is fretted, and not needing to go further as you will end up have the neck run away on you. As I said, you might already do this fret lightly/properly, but if you don't think will help your playing become a lot more fluid, because you aren't tensing muscles heavily. It is properly more important a skill with higher action, as you need to differentiate between string tension and feel more finely.

I have trouble doing this (bending a note(s) sharp) when playing unfamiliar chord shapes with large stretches. I will try this exercise when learning a new in the near future.