Amp settings

[Dr B]

I'm a beginner (or early intermediate). One of the things I have found frustrating is information for how to get your anp configured to give you some classic tones to play with. I know we all have a different set up and different amps, but most will be united in that they have a treble, middle, bass, reverb, gain, volume and master (and possible effects if you have them). Its not impossible to provide tips for certain tones

I have found the Vox toneroom useful (on the vox website) - but when i watch things like tutorial videos - few, if any, show you how to set up the amp to get that distinctive Cream sound, or whomever it is for you. Obviously this is not going to make you sound like the greats per-se, but i think there is a lot to learn about amps that for us newbies we rarely explore.

For example, the relationship between 'Master' and 'Volume' on most amps can help you with some sounds etc, but it took me a long time to realise this. Do you have any basic amp tips - combinations - settings?

[blargfromouterspace]

That's a tough question Doctor. It's one of those situations where you just have to play around with what you've got. I personally don't have any default settings for anything. I set everything to half way and adjust to taste. Like you mention there are a lot of variables - not least temperature. We rehearsed in our drummers garage the other night when it was about 0C and my amp sounded noticeably different than in the rehearsal room.

For a good clean sound on an amp with bass-mid-treb, I roll the bass on the amp back to the point where it stops being 'woofy' and go a fraction further. For treble I do a similar thing, turning it up until it gets to the point where it just starts to stab you in the ear and bring it back a bit. The mids are more complicated but around half way is a good stop to start. Depending on the amp you might need to crank them or wind them back. YMMV.

[sirmyghin]

I can't give many tips, aside from dealing with a mesa Mark. The EQ on these amps is very interesting, in that it is interactive (the parametric anyway).

Treble not only controls highs, but it also acts as a gain stage for the channel. The higher the treble gets, the less signal gets fed through to the bass and the mids also. So if your treble is around 3 o clock, highs will dominate, around 12-1 pretty level. The bass comes down as gain goes up, this works for most amps but especially Mesas, otherwise you get huge amounts of sag. You can bring in more bass if you feel the need in the graphic EQ/poweramp stage, but in the preamp it will just flub out. Mids are the entire character on this amp, your singing qualities, and overall on most amps are your 'voice' . For clean voices I like to keep the mids pretty scooped, distorted voices to do it all very dense. Your high mids are where you really cut through the mix on a guitar, your 'middle' mids are not overly crucial and can contribute to 'honk' and your low mids (120-240ish) are where your punchiness is, so generally when I play bass I boost that area (with my mid sweep and active preamp).

A lot of guitar players are right obsessed with 'getting more bass' from their tone, that being the frequencies less than 100 Hz as they feel it adds thickness. A lot of players boost their amp with a tube screamer too, to get a nice tight sound. This tight sound is due to the screamer bumping mids and reducing bass, it also bestows a bit more singing of a quality. Whenever I mix (and I am far from the only one) guitar tracks for a piece, the first thing I do is put a high pass at 90 Hz on guitar, that is cut everything under that, the 'vital' bass frequencies are gone immediately. There is very very little audible difference, a common misconception about guitars is they possess bass frequencies, but given the string guages and scale lengths (and string tensions), they are a midrange instrument. That is to say you are hearing much more harmonic overtones than you are the fundamental (which is surprisingly, extremely weak). But scooping out this weak part in the range ,you also make room for the bass to really shine and fill it in without muddiness. The basses longer scale and much higher tension strings are much less harmonic in comparisson, and have a stronger fundamental. Given this the bass knobs Q likely overlaps to low mids some.

Lastly your treble effectively will govern your attack, clarity, and even to some extent volume for legato. Your treble rolled back heavily? Better believe your legato runs will die on your fingers, without that snap of the hammeron there isn't too much there. This goes especially for the wound strings, which above 15 are going to have a much harder time being used for legato. Presence is kind of your extra treble, above even those highs, it gives the sound a much more open tone overall, but be careful as it will get very bright.

Knowing what frequencies you need to improve to get the sound you are chasing is more important than what amp you are using and it's interaction really. All amps (aside from cheapos, and even them to some extent) is designed to sound good. A lot of times it is people trying to apply generic eq settings to something engineered entirely different that make them sound terrible.

[Dr B]

That's a tough question Doctor. It's one of those situations where you just have to play around with what you've got. I personally don't have any default settings for anything. I set everything to half way and adjust to taste. Like you mention there are a lot of variables - not least temperature. We rehearsed in our drummers garage the other night when it was about 0C and my amp sounded noticeably different than in the rehearsal room.

Thanks man. I've been using the 'set everything to half way and then tweak' approach but I am sure I am missing out on something. I read somewhere about the differene between master and volume, but have long forgotten what it was...I think one was the gain into the tube and the other is the output from it - or something like that.....

Tempreture - never thought of that - so thanks for the suggestion. I have noticed how my amp crackles more (in a good way) after its been played for about 10mins. I put it down to the tube warming up - but I'm no expert on that.
I have a Vox VT valvotronix thingy for practice. Its a hybrid with a tube. Its a nice entry level amp - some nice tones and a wide range of styles are possible - so me being a bit of a bedroom player - its fine. But so many knobs i rarely touch....

For a good clean sound on an amp with bass-mid-treb, I roll the bass on the amp back to the point where it stops being 'woofy' and go a fraction further. For treble I do a similar thing, turning it up until it gets to the point where it just starts to stab you in the ear and bring it back a bit. The mids are more complicated but around half way is a good stop to start. Depending on the amp you might need to crank them or wind them back. YMMV.

Cheers for that mate - will give it a go.

Check out the Vox toneroom on their website as well - let me know your thoughts on it. It will apply to most amps as its just about the main basic settings (treble, bass, middle, gain, master, volume, delay, reverb)...

[Dr B]

I can't give many tips, aside from dealing with a mesa Mark. The EQ on these amps is very interesting, in that it is interactive (the parametric anyway).

Treble not only controls highs, but it also acts as a gain stage for the channel. The higher the treble gets, the less signal gets fed through to the bass and the mids also. So if your treble is around 3 o clock, highs will dominate, around 12-1 pretty level. The bass comes down as gain goes up, this works for most amps but especially Mesas, otherwise you get huge amounts of sag. You can bring in more bass if you feel the need in the graphic EQ/poweramp stage, but in the preamp it will just flub out. Mids are the entire character on this amp, your singing qualities, and overall on most amps are your 'voice' . For clean voices I like to keep the mids pretty scooped, distorted voices to do it all very dense. Your high mids are where you really cut through the mix on a guitar, your 'middle' mids are not overly crucial and can contribute to 'honk' and your low mids (120-240ish) are where your punchiness is, so generally when I play bass I boost that area (with my mid sweep and active preamp).

Cheers man - much appreciated. I can see I've got a lot of experimenting to do. Thanks for tips. If you know of any youtube links to people mucking about with settings and sounds - let me know. I think its a neglected area in terms of online tutorials

A lot of guitar players are right obsessed with 'getting more bass' from their tone, that being the frequencies less than 100 Hz as they feel it adds thickness. A lot of players boost their amp with a tube screamer too, to get a nice tight sound. This tight sound is due to the screamer bumping mids and reducing bass, it also bestows a bit more singing of a quality. Whenever I mix (and I am far from the only one) guitar tracks for a piece, the first thing I do is put a high pass at 90 Hz on guitar, that is cut everything under that, the 'vital' bass frequencies are gone immediately. There is very very little audible difference, a common misconception about guitars is they possess bass frequencies, but given the string guages and scale lengths (and string tensions), they are a midrange instrument. That is to say you are hearing much more harmonic overtones than you are the fundamental (which is surprisingly, extremely weak). But scooping out this weak part in the range ,you also make room for the bass to really shine and fill it in without muddiness. The basses longer scale and much higher tension strings are much less harmonic in comparisson, and have a stronger fundamental. Given this the bass knobs Q likely overlaps to low mids some.

Cheers for that. I can see i need to think about my amps as much as i do about my guitar. I need to explore what it can do and try and get as much out of it as I can.

[sirmyghin]

Cheers for that. I can see i need to think about my amps as much as i do about my guitar. I need to explore what it can do and try and get as much out of it as I can.

One thing I forgot to mention, is that when playing alone at home, it doesn't hurt to turn the bass up a bit more, it will give at least a percieved thickness (which can be lacking at bedroom levels). In a mix or jam/band setting though, best to let bassists have some space lest they get fed up at the mudball.


I can't help you on master volume vs volume ,as they differ amp to amp. Mine has 3 volume, 3 gain and a master volume. Master volumes are usually the last in line and only change settings in the power amp section. I may be wrong but the gain and volume in the channel controls have only to do with th e 'gain stages' and 'drive stages' in the preamp section. At least on mine.... Master volume, when done really well is pretty much just an attenuator, or a very similar effect (without as much tone suck, when done well).

[Boogie Bill]

Every amp is different. Fenders typically have more bass than Mesas or Marshalls, and that bass can get too boomy, especially with humbuckers, in a live situation. Marshalls seem to have tighter bass, shifted to a different frequency. I'm familiar with the JCM 800 series; and compared to Fender, they have almost no noticeable bass, and they sound crappy at low bedroom levels. That is, until you plug into a Celestion loaded 412 and crank the volume. Where the Fender would start to get flubby, the Marshall stays tight; and it's the 412 that provides the low-end push.

Mesa's Mark Series amps are deliberately designed with less bass. Smith wants the amp to be a solo instrument, and it's voiced with a strong mid-range and less bass to stay out of the range occupied by the bass guitar and the lower end of the keyboard. I use a Mesa 112 EVM Theile-ported cabinet with my Mesa Mark Series combos to help add back a little of the bottom end with more punch and projection. The Dual and Triple Rectifiers stacks though, are designed for crushing low bass and dropped tunings--and at volumes that will pulverize your internal organs.

Every amp will have different sweet spots, and the numbers will always be different. Everybody has their own way of doing things. They are fun to play with, though it's best if you can do your experimenting at home and not have to be fiddling with knobs on the bandstand. And remember, what sounds good in the bedroom might not work well on stage, and vice-versa. You'll definitely will want to back down the reverb and the echoes--it gets muddy fast. You may need to use less gain, too. As you crank up the volume on your amp, try backing down on the gain for less fizz and noise, and a more singing tone. The great tones that Angus and Malcolm get with AC/DC aren't from the preamps--those are the sounds of really great 100 and 50 watt tube Marshalls cranked to within an inch of their lives. Great tone!!! And since you're a VOX user, listen to Queen's Brian May for some unbelieveable VOX goodness. He's cranked, but his gain really isn't over-the-top, either.


++++++++++++++++

I can leave you with one tip for you Legacy and the PTB controls. I normally set mine at T-10 and B-5, with the volume at 7-8. This is my basic rhythm tone. I set the amp for the bridge pickup for the maximum brightness I will want for leads from that pickup--almost close to Tele spank and twang. The bridge pickup is set the highest, and the middle and neck are progressively stepped down for close to equal volume at all switch positions. The amp should have enough bass on it to give you a full tone from the neck and middle pickups, without excessive bass. The neck pickup with the volume down and a clean amp setting will almost sound like an acoustic guitar. There should be quack from Position 2 (bridge+middle) and Position 4 (neck+middle). My goal for #4 is SRV; for #2 is Clapton, Cray or Knopfler (though I think the "Eric Clapton" solo album (with "Let It Rain" and "Slinky" is too bright).

Obviously I roll the volume up for solos. If I want to add more "punch", I can also easily roll up the bass. If I need more "Tele" brightness, I can roll the bass all the way off. If I want a jazzier, darker woman tone, I'll leave the Bass at 5 and simply roll the Treble down. This system has always seemed to work better for me. It's a fast way to get from my normal tone to either end of the scale with the simplest movements. I've done this since 1979, starting with my Music Man Sabre IIs with their active preamps.

You may notice that the guitars with the hotter pickups like the Comanche, S-500 and Legacy Special have even more control and shading with the PTB controls. I like to get some harmonic feedback with my Comanche, and then I can actually dial in various harmonics with the guitar's PTB controls. It is a very cool effect.

Good luck.

Bill

[blargfromouterspace]

Check out the Vox toneroom on their website as well - let me know your thoughts on it. It will apply to most amps as its just about the main basic settings (treble, bass, middle, gain, master, volume, delay, reverb)...

Had a quick look at the toneroom. Again, every amp is different so those setting will sound completely different on another amp. It's good for a quick look around and by trying out a few of those settings you'll no doubt learn how to tailor them to suit you.

[Dr B]

Every amp is different. Fenders typically have more bass than Mesas or Marshalls, and that bass can get too boomy, especially with humbuckers, in a live situation. Marshalls seem to have tighter bass, shifted to a different frequency. I'm familiar with the JCM 800 series; and compared to Fender, they have almost no noticeable bass, and they sound crappy at low bedroom levels. That is, until you plug into a Celestion loaded 412 and crank the volume. Where the Fender would start to get flubby, the Marshall stays tight; and it's the 412 that provides the low-end push.

Cheers for all the advice Bill. My amp has a dial on the back which is really handy for bedroom practice. It allows you to turn down the output ampage (I think thats how it works). Anyway, it allows you to drive the amp hard, loads of over-driven classic crackle, but for it not to be too loud. Its the main reason I got the amp.

Every amp will have different sweet spots, and the numbers will always be different. Everybody has their own way of doing things. They are fun to play with, though it's best if you can do your experimenting at home and not have to be fiddling with knobs on the bandstand.

This is what I am finding. The amp, in a way, needs to be viewed as a separate instrument in its own right really rather than something secondary to the guitar - or at least thats my take on things based on what everyone is saying here with their helpful comments. I guess I am coming to terms with the 'tip of the iceberg' feeling and lots more testing of options to be explored.

You'll definitely will want to back down the reverb and the echoes--it gets muddy fast. You may need to use less gain, too. As you crank up the volume on your amp, try backing down on the gain for less fizz and noise, and a more singing tone. The great tones that Angus and Malcolm get with AC/DC aren't from the preamps--those are the sounds of really great 100 and 50 watt tube Marshalls cranked to within an inch of their lives. Great tone!!! And since you're a VOX user, listen to Queen's Brian May for some unbelieveable VOX goodness. He's cranked, but his gain really isn't over-the-top, either.

Cheers for all this Bill - it's a big help, I can't thank you enough. Yes - I will check out Brian May - great tone (is it true he uses a penny as a pick???)

I can leave you with one tip for you Legacy and the PTB controls. I normally set mine at T-10 and B-5, with the volume at 7-8. This is my basic rhythm tone. I set the amp for the bridge pickup for the maximum brightness I will want for leads from that pickup--almost close to Tele spank and twang. The bridge pickup is set the highest, and the middle and neck are progressively stepped down for close to equal volume at all switch positions. The amp should have enough bass on it to give you a full tone from the neck and middle pickups, without excessive bass. The neck pickup with the volume down and a clean amp setting will almost sound like an acoustic guitar. There should be quack from Position 2 (bridge+middle) and Position 4 (neck+middle). My goal for #4 is SRV; for #2 is Clapton, Cray or Knopfler (though I think the "Eric Clapton" solo album (with "Let It Rain" and "Slinky" is too bright).

Great stuff Bill - great advice. I will take the time to go through your tips over the coming weeks. The legacy is due to land tomorrow (I may even lose some sleep like a 12-year school boy waiting for christmas) and I have yet to learn about the potential of the PTB system (my asat does not have it) - so this advice is both timely and helpful - so thanks.

If you have any sound clips of your researches into the PTB and amp settings do let me know.
I've decided I am not buying more kit until i have a really good working knowledge of settings (guitar and amp) from what i have. Gives me a motivation to practice and explore. Practice is not all about scales and chord changes - but exploring these more technical aspects. Its daunting - but thanks for the advice

[Dr B]

On a very quick follow-up note, i still wish some of my tutorial videos i have went through tbe amp settings they use. I get the odd DVD from LickLibrary. I have Peter Green, Clapton, Guns n Roses, Bon Jovi, and a Santana one - and none of them explain how to get close to the tone. I think this is a shame.

I appreciate all amps are different - but some of the advice could be quite simple (like simply, roll back the bass or treble and use a bridge / neck pickup to get close). I'm not looking for exact answers - but some ball park assumptions for certain classic tones from very generic guitar and amp settings. The rest is up to me and my ear and equipment - but a guiding nod is not impossible (as Bill has so kindly illustrated above).

I think there would be a market for this sort of information on the net.