Lunch Report, Wed., April 27, 2011, Lowender Day

[darwinohm]

Lunch today will be leftover pizza from when the grand daughters were here this past weekend. The Dr. didn't red tag me so I should make the rest of the week okay!

G&L question for the lowenders. I recently looked at An ASAT bass in honeyburst. It was a beauty and I later went back to buy and it was gone. I noticed that it had the same control and switch configuration as my L-2000. I find this control setup to give a lot of different tonal possibilities. However, I find that I set up the tone that I want and end up using it all night. Are you guys using the controls a lot? Maybe Timothy B had it right when he had only a volume knob on his signature bass. Another question, My Roland synth has a setting to use for bass guitar. What would you use it for? I am still in the 60s.

Bass project. I have a bass which I have stripped and am going to paint Baby Blue.

Front


I may clear coat the neck using a vintage tint like GOT.


Does anyone have any ideas how to remove the finger marks on the fretboard. Solvents will not remove them.

As many of you know, the stripping of the original paint is the most difficult part of this whole process. It took many hours with a stripper (paint!!!). I would have done a natural finish but the body is not perfect. I will post pics when it is complete.



Continuing with the music today, the first cut is a Floyd Cramer piano tune that Steve made into a guitar song. We also have Lonesome George doing the steel work. Lonesome George sneaks in on several of these old songs. Steve plays his original 88 Strat Plus with worn out frets. The frets don't seem to be a problem.

03 Last Date.mp3

Next is Little Sister. Steve does dirty guitar on this, hum and all--who needs noise gates?? Jerry does the vocals. I do a different type bass track. A good shot of Geritol got us going on this.

12 Little Sister.mp3

And, this is a favorite of mine. I wanted a special sound on this and Jo did background vocals like I think the Andrews Sisters would have done. This song was once done by Jo Stafford. How many of you young dudes remember her? How many of you old dudes still remember her??? Mike does the vocals.

07 You Belong To Me.mp3

We have spun enough old tunes for today, but if you like 'em, tune in tomorrow and we will spin some more and thanks for the comments and participation!--- Darwin

[BadJaxx]

i'm stuck in the 70s...

cool version of Last Date...i have the original on one of my playlists...

[Aussie]

G&L question for the lowenders . .. I find that I set up the tone that I want and end up using it all night. Are you guys using the controls a lot? Maybe Timothy B had it right when he had only a volume knob on his signature bass.

Not a lowender myself but our bass player thinks that as far as tone goes us guitar players are lazy, dependent creatures. He argues that where guitarists tend to consistently strum or pick in the same place and rely on electronics such as tone controls and switching between pickups to vary tone, bass players are more likely to create variations in tone by moving their picking closer to the bridge or the neck. They do say that tone comes mainly from the players fingures so maybe there is something to his arguement .... not that I'd let him hear me say that

cheers, Robbie

[sirmyghin]

I make use of a pickup blend and 3 band eq with a mid sweep when I play. As well as piezo vs mag. I tweak bassed on mood, setting, song, technique being employed, etc. Not a fan of single cut basses though, and I am VERY picky about string spacing (my 5 is 19mm spacing). Never played an ASAT bass, not sure a G&L would do it for me though.

What do you use a Roland synth for on a bass, no offense intended Darwin, but that is a bit of a bad question. The exact same thing you would use it for on guitar . I am not kidding in the slightest however, all a roland does is extend the timbre of your instruments (while butchering the respective timbre it is supposed to present ).

[klokker]

I definitely gig with pretty much a single tone.......but my main bass is a P bass and it does exactly what I want it to for the stuff we play. I usually run it through a VT bass pedal for a rare overdriven distortion......most of the time its off.

With my l-2500 I prefer passive mode with both humbuckers on.

[darwinohm]

Thanks Jaxx, I think it is a cool version to. When our keyboard player is with us we have her do a Floyd piano verse.

Robbie, I tend to agree. Point well made. Timothy B. uses his amp for tone control. He is no slouch in my opinion.

Sirmy, you make a good point. I am certainly not the most creative bass player. I will relate a story here. There is a fellow who has his own PA system for his bass and is an outstanding player. He is almost a one man show. Most of the bands do not like to play with him. Last New Years Eve, I was called the day before to play bass at a gig in Brainerd with our lead player and two brothers who played the Holiday Inn circuit for many years. They are a keyboard player and drummer, both vocalists and fantastic. I was given the song list before the gig with the keys. I play solid, steady and right out there. The bass player and drummer should drive the band in our style of music. I have been asked to play with them on the fourth of July weekend this summer. Solid, steady and driving beat is my style, anything but fancy. I wish I could do slap and a lot of other things but having said that, the reality is that I will never get there. Back to the synth. I plan on using it for Sax and Strings background, it also does a nice flute. I will bet that some of you bass players could really make something out of it. I hope that some of you come up with some ideas. I am stuck in the 60s but I am happy with that. So my question was serious as I honestly don't know what you could do with this thing on bass. Thanks Sirmy, I've heard some of your work and I'll bet you could make that synth cook on bass. Thanks all-- Dawin

[sirmyghin]

Sirmy, you make a good point. I am certainly not the most creative bass player. I will relate a story here. There is a fellow who has his own PA system for his bass and is an outstanding player. He is almost a one man show. Most of the bands do not like to play with him. Last New Years Eve, I was called the day before to play bass at a gig in Brainerd with our lead player and two brothers who played the Holiday Inn circuit for many years. They are a keyboard player and drummer, both vocalists and fantastic. I was given the song list before the gig with the keys. I play solid, steady and right out there. The bass player and drummer should drive the band in our style of music. I have been asked to play with them on the fourth of July weekend this summer. Solid, steady and driving beat is my style, anything but fancy. I wish I could do slap and a lot of other things but having said that, the reality is that I will never get there. Back to the synth. I plan on using it for Sax and Strings background, it also does a nice flute. I will bet that some of you bass players could really make something out of it. I hope that some of you come up with some ideas. I am stuck in the 60s but I am happy with that. So my question was serious as I honestly don't know what you could do with this thing on bass. Thanks Sirmy, I've heard some of your work and I'll bet you could make that synth cook on bass. Thanks all-- Dawin

Thanks Darwin, I would love a synth on my bass, I just can't believe I would be willing to attach a GK3 to my LB75, might consider carving up the side a bit to add a hexpander and 13 pin though. I am oddly more interested in getting one on a guitar if I go that route. I have a EH bass micro synth pedal that does my synthy sounds. With strings you are really going to want to watch the attack, make sure you set the pedal to even it out. I can do this on my micro synth to get a bowed type sound, I find some nice vibrato (slowish, a bit wide) helps the overall effect. Sax is trickier as you just cannot mimic the attack and whatnot, I am a bit overcritical when it comes to sax as I know how to play one (albeit it has been years), bag pipes are another people like to use that the synth does an exceptionally bad job on (you can't separate bagpipes notes with gaps, you need to play grace notes). My personal uses for synth stuff would likely not be with actual instrument imitation, but more pads, soundscape and 'digital sound' type things I can't access otherwise. Real instruments just aren't often 'real' enough for me, even with fancy toys like breath controllers.

I know what you mean about bassists that are overly showy, and in a band they are the bane of the universe. There is a time and a place for everything, but some bassists are just constantly trying to solo from the pocket, regardless of what the rest of the band is doing. There is a pretty fine line there, and it can be tricky. Egos are often a bit part of it, which is why I am sure that other guy has some issues with bands. If he is taking the approach it sounds like he is, it is more due to being an immature MUSICIAN, he can be a great player all he wants but a bad musician is hard to cover on. My current vice is getting into more touch style bass playing, my current goal is to write and record an etude of sorts, a melody and rhythm piece on a single track, just me and the bass. Generally speaking your approach to bass playing is the 'right' one, it will never let a band down, and keep everything moving. Some songs just don't require spice, and some of those 60's and even 50s basslines already have a good walk to them. Something I picked up from Victor Wooten "You can't loose the groove to find a note". It is all about priorities. If we want to start getting flashy, we need to watch guys like Geddy Lee, The Ox, and Chris Squire as reference, those guys knew how to blister but never break the tune, in a rock context. I feel nowadays I have a good grasp of what would over do it, can't say the same about my teens. I get a little wild now and then but who doesn't.

Sorry if I came accross a little crass, I have been described as 'eclectic' in my musical preferences, which has led me to consider about every possible appraoch to getting the job done.

[sickbutnottired]

I don't have to worry much about my bass sound, cause as soon as I pick one up, someone will shut me down for the public good.

I will say this, though. Everyone plays guitar. A good bass player is a gem, and much harder to come by.


Darwin, I am enjoying your tunes. Although today I am batting a very low percentage on getting your references! Thanks for sharing!

jeremy

[BadJaxx]

regarding Aussie's Bass player's comment...i for one DO pick and strum in different areas for tonal and/or attack variations...i do it a lot...frequently, when playing lead, will change my picking area several times during the course of a song, as well as choke up on the pic and change my attack to get specific tones...

and since we guitar and bass players at least have a few things in common, i submit the following...

what do you say when your drummer shows up at your front door?



nothing...just tip him a dollar and take the pizza....

[Muleya]

Looks like an interesting project, Darwin. I had to strip my kitchen cabinets several years ago (just the shell and facing, we replaced the doors). It had been pickled with a white stain and really got down into the grain. So I used solvents to get as much out as possible, then lots of sanding! And the shells were plywood, so couldn't sand too far, though fortunately very little of the shells were exposed, it was mostly the facing, which was solid oak and I could sand to my hearts content! But we were pleased with the results. Anyway, I look forward to seeing the completed restoration...makes me want to find a guitar to restore!

Sorry, no advice on the fingerboard, though I am interested to hear if someone has an idea!

[blargfromouterspace]

I'm not a bass player either. I had a Japanese tribute L-2000 for a little while but couldn't afford the rest of the rig.

I will say this, though. Everyone plays guitar. A good bass player is a gem, and much harder to come by.

Too true. Same goes with dummers... oops, dRummers. I've found that drummers are either really good or really bad, with very few in between. I guess its because its a purely feel based instrument, and if you don't have a good feel for music in general then you aren't going to be a very good drummer.



The fingerboard.: Back when I was working painting houses we'd occasionally have to do renovations of really dirty oiled-board places. We'd apply a product called 'Reviva' which served like a bleaching agent, removing virtually all of the gunk from the boards making them look brand new. I'm sure you have a similar product in the US. Just make sure to check it's effect on metals before you start. The stuff we used was fine, but you don't want to put something on there that will eat away at the frets.

[Philby]

Bass project. I have a bass which I have stripped and am going to paint Baby Blue.

It's not too late to do her in a nice shade of red Darwin .

But sonic blue is great colour if there's no red lying around......

[Ken Baker]

G&L question for the lowenders. I recently looked at An ASAT bass in honeyburst. It was a beauty and I later went back to buy and it was gone. I noticed that it had the same control and switch configuration as my L-2000. I find this control setup to give a lot of different tonal possibilities. However, I find that I set up the tone that I want and end up using it all night. Are you guys using the controls a lot? Maybe Timothy B had it right when he had only a volume knob on his signature bass. Another question, My Roland synth has a setting to use for bass guitar. What would you use it for? I am still in the 60s.

I tend to use most of the capabilities of my L-2500. It is modded a bit, adding SC mode as well as a different preamp. The onboard EQ settings don't get changed much, but the pickup select and coil select switches get used a lot (depending on the tune).

Does anyone have any ideas how to remove the finger marks on the fretboard. Solvents will not remove them.

??? What solvents are you trying?

Ken...

[darwinohm]

Ken, I have used traditional paint solvents, oil based, and a Formbys product, a gentle remover. I haven't tried anything to harsh yet as I didn't want to change the color of the wood. I had also considered clearcoating over the finger marks to preserve as a form of relic. I am considering steel wool or very fine sandpaper to remove it, but prefer to chemically remove it. If you know of a product that works, I would like to know. I want a new restoration if I can without sanding. The finger oils have soaked into the maple. Thanks Ken.-- Darwin

[Ken Baker]

Ken, I have used traditional paint solvents, oil based, and a Formbys product, a gentle remover. I haven't tried anything to harsh yet as I didn't want to change the color of the wood. I had also considered clearcoating over the finger marks to preserve as a form of relic. I am considering steel wool or very fine sandpaper to remove it, but prefer to chemically remove it. If you know of a product that works, I would like to know. I want a new restoration if I can without sanding. The finger oils have soaked into the maple. Thanks Ken.-- Darwin

If the fingerboard is unfinished, meaning no clearcoat, then I'd go after it with 4-0 (0000) steel wool and orange oil. Maybe even Murphy's. The steel wool won't hurt the maple and will clean the frets up to a nice satin finish. If you have a Rockler or Woodcraft shop nearby, you might take the neck in to them and ask for a pointer or three. EBMM recommends Tru-Oil (gun stock oil) for the back of the neck, and I'd go with that.

I use Orange Oil on all the bare wood fingerboards here. It does a decent job of removing grunge and protects the wood better than some of the lemon oils available.

Ken...

[zapcosongs]

Hey Darwin.

I'm writing mostly to apologize for not particpating more this week, in spite of your most excellent Lunch Reports (yesterday was leftover pizza day for me. Canadian bacon. Porky and less fatty. What's not to like?)

I like your recordings a lot. So much so that if you lived closer, I'd approach you with a project I have in mind that's been too long in the tooth...

Anyhow, I can't help you with your bass fretboard issue - or with anything, really. You (and Ginny) seem to have most of your basses covered, god bless you both (pun not intended).

I do agree with your premise that bass player tend to dick around less with their settings than their six-string brethren. I don't play bass, but have a couple of nice Leo-era examples, but I can still relate. When I'm screwing around on my four-strings (five are two strings too many for me, really), I find a sound I like and tend to leave it. On my early SB-2, it's the middle position due mostly to the hum-canceling, with the tone set at seven or so. My L1K I just set on "OMG" and see how many neighborhood dogs I can make pee on the carpet in their respective homes. Good times! ;+) - ed

[darwinohm]

Thanks Ken. I will try orange oil and if I have to I will steel wool. At this point I have not fully decided how far I want to go but i will let everyone know what I find out and if anything works. Thanks again-- Darwin

[cmguitar]

Darwin,

Been too busy to post anything on lunch this week but I have listen to some of the music. Last Date- was one of the first songs I learned or kinda learned.
Good to hear some good music.


Chet

[KenC]

Darwin,

I'll count myself somewhere between the young dudes and the old dudes, but You Belong to Me has become one of my absolute favorite songs. I rarely pick up a guitar without running through it at least once.

I find that I set up the tone that I want and end up using it all night. Are you guys using the controls a lot?

Almost all of my bass playing these days is on the upright, but when I was primarily on the electric bass I kept the knobs set at ten most of the time and let my fingers dictate the sound. Ironically, the hardest thing about crossing over to the upright was learning not to pluck the notes like an electric bassist (perpendicular to the strings). On the upright you have to use everything from the first knuckle - where the index finger connects to the palm - on up to the fingertips, depending on the string and how much growl you want. Not to mention, you might need to move the right hand six inches or more to get the right sweet spot between different notes. When I pick up the electric now, it amazes me how delicate even the most aggressive plucking is in comparison.

Does anyone have any ideas how to remove the finger marks on the fretboard. Solvents will not remove them.

Please forgive a really obvious question: are the marks on top of the finish, or through the finish? Or is it discoloration within the finish? The maple board on my S-500 has some finger marks, but they are actually erosion into the laquer rather than stains or discolorations.

Ken

[darwinohm]

Thanks to all who have commented today. The thing that is great about this forum is that if you have a question, ask it, post a picture or two and you will get an answer. There is an unbelievable amount of knowledge and experience here. Ken Baker, from the bass forum is knowledgeable and heplfull and you cannot go wrong with Kens advice.

Answers for today, Muleya, Blarg , KenC, and Ken Baker, thanks for comments on the neck, Blarg, bleaching is an option but probably a last resort. Kenc, the oil and dirt has soaked into the maple wood.

Thanks, Klokker, SBNT, and Sirmy on bass player comments. They still drive the band!!!

Philby, seriously if the wood were perfect (no damage) , you would see the most beautiful transparent red you have ever seen. Transparent Blue would be a close second.

Jaxx, drummers beat on things, watch out!

Zap, if you were closer, we would record. The best part is drinking beer and listening after a day of editing and mixing. It doesn't get much better. I didn't tell that to the Doc yesterday!

KenC, You Belong to me has been one of my favorites although I am partial. Most of the songs on the CD are favorites of mine. That is why we picked them. I probably never mentioned, but the the name of the the CD is "Notables" By The Senior Class. No pun intended!

Chet, Last Date is true classic. I didn't realize that it had words until I hear Emmy Lous version.

I am glad that some of you are enjoying the tunes. We are going to kick it off tomorrow for the Parrotheads. Darwin

[KenC]

the oil and dirt has soaked into the maple wood.

I'm not sure anything would lift oil and dirt out of the wood's grain. When I've made furniture out of maple, my favorite finish is boiled linseed oil. It soaks in and stays there. I believe the only way to get it out would be to remove wood. You could end up with a scalloped neck by the time the wood is clear.

You mentioned that keeping the marks as "relics" may be an option. If you went with the gun stock oil as Ken B. suggested, you would probably end up blending into the stains to some degree and minimizing their visibility (but not eliminating them entirely). If I were to do that, I would hand-rub the finish in extremely thin coats (as opposed to finishing a maple table top, where I would flood the surface and wipe off the excess before it cured - definitely not the look I would want on a BEM neck!).

[CGT]

Lunch was stuffed red pepper and a cheese sandwich.

I'll jump in on the tone question. I started on classical guitar (which I'm very bad at) so I was taught the importance of varying tone by positioning my fingers up and down the strings, hitting the strings with nail or skin, and playing freestyle or appoyando (the latter meaning resting my fingers on the adjacent string after hitting a note). I tend to vary my tone by fingerpicking (and applying these techniques) or using different picks, as well as by playing with the tone controls on my guitars. I use very little effectification and my amp settings tend to be pretty consistent. While I agree that many guitarists don't vary their picking style, but I'd say that this is an over-generalization. And while I do see bassists using a lot more finger, pick and position techniques to vary their tone, I find just as many to be as "lazy" as most guitarists.

On the other hand, my experience may be biased as I tend to pay attention to more classical/flamenco players than most people.

[darwinohm]

Thanks CGT. There has really been some interesting answers to this question. I do not change settings and at most will switch pickups but am also a sensitive picker on the bass. I also use fingers for muting other strings while note changes. It gives a very clean result Thanks.-- Darwin

[yowhatsshakin]

Like you, I tend to use a single 'configuration' on my L-2500 and ASAT bass. Not much of a switch-master. When I started playing bass in my 'other' band in my teens, Mark King (of Level 42) was the hot thing and all other bass players I interacted with always were proud to show off how well they could emulate him. But whenever it came down to play a tune, which was usually a cover of some classic, all those antics were of little use beyond improving your fingering technique maybe. So in that respect I could keep up easily and was many times the one to fill in an open slot somewhere. In the end, it is your rapport with the drummer and how well you can provide the foundation. But then again, I always loved the Ox going off on some weird ass solo and see his fingers fly on both ends of his axe ...

Interesting to see some Bird's Eye on both the headstock and fingerboard of the neck. But the back of the neck looks more like quarter sawn. Don't really understand how it is possible for both to be there unless the headstock is glued on or an extension of the fingerboard. So is that a glue seam in the pic?

Darwin, keep these tunes coming. I only have time in the morning this week and you have provided wonderful starts of my otherwise hectic (dare I say insane) days.

- Jos

[darwinohm]

Yow, thanks for your comments. I do have an answer on the MM neck. First of all it is a 1999 model. It is a laminated fingerboard and is not visible from the sides. I don,t know if the grain causes that or the slab had a very narrow cut. The only visible seam it at the end of the fretboard, just past the nut, where it blends into the headstock. Good observation Jos. Don't over work yourself. That leads to burnout!--Darwin

[Dave_P]

what do you say when your drummer shows up at your front door?
nothing...just tip him a dollar and take the pizza....

my drummer is a pizza delivery guy!

-Dave