S-500 or Comanche

[rockworthy]

Hi, I've been learning guitar for just about a year. I have three guitars. A Martin D16GT, USA G&L Legacy Standard, and an Epiphone DR500m that I won in a contest. Anyway I'm coming up on a mile marker as far as my learning goes and I'm thinking I want to treat myself to another guitar. I fell in love with the USA S-500 but didnt have the money when I bought my Legacy so I've been lusting after one ever since. Now I've been looking at a few vids of the USA Comanche and I like it as well. Can someone explain the differences between the two to me?

[guitar_ed]

Hi RW,

The difference is the pickups. The S-500 has single coil MFD pups, that give you a traditional single coil type of sound. The Comanche pups, while MFDs, are a split single coil design, similar to the split pup in a SB-2 or P-Bass design. The result is a different kind of sound. Kind of humbucker-ish to some people. Clean and almost sterile to others.

The comanche is the superior choice if you have to deal with a lot of electronic noise such as fluorescent lights.

There is a lot more info here: http://guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=1329

Take care,

edg

[ChrisPcritter]

I have both, I think the Comanche is more versatile but I get the exact tone I want from the S-500 most of the time so I play it more. That being said, you are asking because you're unsure so if I were you, I'd get a Comanche. It gets closer to a humbucker sound and does a decent job on strat tones, also with the PTB system it is pretty easy to dial in...

[pico peachy]

I know you just asked about the differences but to throw in my two cents-if you plan on keeping your Legacy for a while, go for the Comanche. More of a different beast than the S-500. And I wouldn't say that I have a great ear but I really notice all the variety of tones I can get out of my Comanche.

[El Fug]

Can't comment on the S-500 'cause I have only very limited experience with them. But I own a Comanche and it absolutely kills. The tone is clean, not sterile. It also doesn't have a humbucker-ish sound; it will however kick the front end of your tube amp into overdrive 'cause these Z-coils are beasts. I like trying to get my own sound, and the Comanche is perfect for that. I didn't like how the Z-coils looked at first, but at some point I really started to dig them. Fantastic guitar, but not for everyone.

Search out Boogie Bill's "Comanches for Dummies." I think it might be in the "Knowledge Base" here. Or just google it. (Edit: I see now that guitar_ed above already provided the link)

For a sample of my Comanche, listen here to the first three songs. Pretty much straight into my Victoria Tweed Super. You'll see that they don't sound like humbuckers.
http://www.myspace.com/shotgunbreak

[Boogie Bill]

I have eight Legacys; and two each of the Legacy Special, Comanche, and S-500 models. I would rank them in that order, for me, and my current band situation..

The Legacy is my Number One, and it's everything a vintage strat wishes it could be. Got that bright, spanky tone that has proved to be the most versatile and beloved guitar of the last 50+ years. Can't live with out it. And it's a much better guitar for the modern player and my style than my 1960 vintage Strat was.

For me the Legacy Special is kind of my secret weapon. The Gotoh Blades have a thicker, almost PAF-ish tone. When I had my vintage 1960 Strat back in the day, I used to dream of a having one guitar that would give me both Gibson and Fender tones all rolled into one. This is the closest I've ever come. I usually gig with a Legacy, a 2HB guitar (335 or LP) and the Legacy Special. The LS has the uncanny ability to back up both my 2HBs and my Legacy. The PTB controls are capable of wide ranging changes. The LS, with the volume and PTB Bass rolled down gets really close to Legacy Alnico tones. With my Mesa Boogie amps, I'll use the neck pickup with the volume up, Treble on 7 and the Bass on 5, and have enough woman-tone to make Santana envious.

The MFD pickups can be kind of an aquired taste, and that's true of both the S-500's single coils and the Z-Coils of the Comanche. Both of them are powerful, wide range pickups--with lots of treble and bass. The more powerful pickups make the PTB controls work even better. And if you're using a tube amp, they will unmercilessly expose ANY AND EVERY tonal weekness in your preamp tubes because of that high output and wide range.

Even though the Comanche's Z-Coils are humbucking, the don't sound like a PAF, at all. They don't sound like a vintage Alnico either, so forget about copying vintage strat tones. I set my amp really dark when I use a Comanche, but they still have incredible clarity and string separation. I still have enough top end to cut through, but the tone is really ballsy and powerful. NO mud here, at all! Dead quiet, too--which is great when working in a bar with lots of neon and fluourescents; or if you are recording. The Comanche is a great guitar for developing your own unique tone; perhaps not as good at copying SRV, Eric, Mark, David or Jimi. While I normally will take several guitars to one of my band's gigs, I've done some gigs with other bands where I took only a Comanche and didn't feel the need to use another guitar during the whole night. I love taking a Comanche to jams--everyone goes ga-ga over the Z-coils, and I always seem to get compliments on my tone.

The S-500 is similar to the Comanche, but I feel that the tone is slightly more aggressive. Strat on steroids, in-your-face-tone. Great for blues and hard rock, and also works well with lots of pedals and rack gear, keeping that top end. Some find the top end too aggressive (see my remark about preamp tubes), but I find I can get closer to a vintage tone (if I want to), by using a graphic EQ and dropping the 2K slider about 3-4dB. The MFDs can be noisy, though the RW/RP middle pickup makes for silent operation in switch positions 2 and 4. They sound nothing at all like P-90s, but they sometimes make me think of P90s because of all that power. Turn the PTB Treble way down and the tone can get very sweet indeed, yet it will still have that clarity and cut. I haven't been using my S-500s that much lately, but in a different band situation I could see myself using the S-500 as my main guitar, as I did with my Seattle band years ago. I have zero intention of selling the two I have.

That's it in a nut shell. Which one would I recommend for you? Why, one of each, of course!

Good Luck!

Bill

[rockworthy]

Thanks for taking so much time writing that reply Bill.

[ieso]

The Comanche is so good and so versatile that I dare say that a person could get by easily with just a one of those and nothing else. I currently have 5 different G&Ls and, though I like them all, I'd have to keep my Comanche if I could only keep one.

[zapepper]

I've owned my Tribby Comanche for six months now. I read Comanche for Dummies redux, and I thought it was a great article; but isn't the point of having a "non-traditional" axe to create your own sound? I've was able to adjust to my guitar's sound at the Music Store where I bought it. I tried it out, and went back a couple of weeks later and tried it again. I figured "Yep, That's what I've been looking for for over 40 years", and brought it home.

I live south of the border cause everything's cheaper but guitars and amps. I'm retired military on a fixed income. I tried a Line 6 tube thingie Mark I initially, and the sound was sweet, but no headphone jack for apartment living. I bought a (please don't laugh) Fender Frontman 25R and a Digitech RP255 to go with it. I've actually grown fond of that little amp and the effects box. By tweaking and twisting, I've managed to find good blues and rhythm sounds.

I thought I was over my long period of GAS, but I would really like to try a Bluesboy.......Will have to wait until the end of the rainy season here though.....Sleeping on the patio is ok, but wet really isn't my thing. If I find one, here, it is guaranteed to cost at least 25% more than it would in the States, and I would be looking at a Tribute anyway, not rich or good enough to justify buying a USA model.
If it's as good as my Comanche, I won't have any regrets. I'll just set up the hammock until the wife is over being miffed.
Doc

[vulpesoutfoxed]

You mentioned that you fell in love with the S-500 when you had the opportunity to play it, I think if I were in your place I would still get the S-500. You could get the Comanche, but I suspect that no matter how much you like it you will still think about that S-500 since it is the guitar that you connected with. I haven't had the good fortune to get to play an S-500 yet but looking forward to the day I do. I do however own a Comanche and will say that if that is the route you go the guitar will not disappoint. It is capable of some amazing sounds, from almost piano like cleans when playing finger-style, and I can get some very satisfying distortion sounds through my BBE Crusher pedal. Really, haven't found any sort of effect that those z-coils didn't add extra depth and coolness to.

[thunder100]

I am a bit late here,but there is little to add on what has been said
(Among 6 guitars 3 Strat/2Tele/1 Jaguar-->/I play an ASAT Deluxe SH&a Comanche(Mahagonay/ebony)

Apart that the tone you want to achieve comes first,there are following additional considerations:

With the Comanche you can never swap pickups unless you change pickguards and a lot other stuff.There are the only the Z-coils you have on the guitar because the only other one (Will Ray bridge,even hotter) was discontinued.

Z-coils drive low headroom amps immediately to distortion

Z-coils are (very) picking sensitive-->Mistakes a SC Strat forgives,Comanche's will make it audible for everybody

In a mix with more guitars the Z-coils will always shine out.Your co-gitarerro can use what he wants you can always get stronger in the mix

Still i will never split with my Comanche but as Bill said(the dummy thread) its not for everybody

Roland

[blini]

Hi there,

Nice forum!

I'm looking closer at buying a G&L Tribute Comanche, but am concerned about this comment about low headroom amps,

Z-coils drive low headroom amps immediately to distortion

and also point 9. from the Comanches for Dummies redux http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/FORUM/viewt ... =12&t=1329 thread

9. Again, make certain that you are using a good quality, non-microphonic pre-amp tube in the V1 socket of your amp, as well as in the socket for your lead channel, if any. Some brands seem to work better than others. The extended high frequency response of the z-coils can drive some tubes crazy.

The reason for my concern is that I'll be playing through a Crate V8 Palamino amp which hasn't been modified at all, and that does get referenced as not having great headroom.

I've found a thread that deals with "swapping the 12AX7 for a 12AT7" to give more headroom to the amp, but not being familiar with technical stuff I'd rather not have to do this straightaway -http://acapella.harmony-central.com/sho ... rging-a-V8

Does anybody have any experience of this combination of Comanche and Crate V8, or be able to suggest whether I'd be able to get any clean sounds out at all either before or after making extra headroom?

Thanks in advance for any help

[meowmix]

Different 12A_7 tubes have different gains.
The 12AX7 is the highest gain, all others are below.
The 12AT7 is the next step lower and from there you get the 12AY7, then the lowest 12AU7

[thunder100]

The MFD pickups can be kind of an aquired taste, and that's true of both the S-500's single coils and the Z-Coils of the Comanche. Both of them are powerful, wide range pickups--with lots of treble and bass. The more powerful pickups make the PTB controls work even better. And if you're using a tube amp, they will unmercilessly expose ANY AND EVERY tonal weekness in your preamp tubes because of that high output and wide range.

And they will expose any of your playing weakness.It makes a difference how you fret a string!!.Could be good but bad as well !!(I own most of G&L's range)

If you go for the Comanche what I highly recomend you(taking the Legacy in account) PLEASE read here a thread mentioned above

Roland

Even though the Comanche's Z-Coils are humbucking,

-->Bill not true they are MFD and to certain extend constructed like a Jazzmaster with VERY DIFFERENT VOICING

[blini]

@meowmix - ok, that's useful thnx