NOISELESS G&L ASAT SPECIAL

[tkeiningham]

I own a 1995 ASAT Special (that I LOVE)! Recently I created my dream guitar setup to play this through: a combination Digidesign Eleven Rack and a fully refurbished complete Scholz Rockman Rockmodule system. Unfortunately, the gain from my system caused my beloved G&L to be a constant hum machine (Rockman enthusiasts advise against single coils for Rockman systems). I was very upset, as my G&L was now a piece of furniture. As this guitar holds special meaning for me, and I refused to do anything that would damage the signature G&L sound (no different pickups allowed), I thought that there was nothing I could do. I looked everywhere online until I was directed by the engineers at Suhr guitars to ILITCH ELECTRONICS (IE)... I don't even own a Suhr guitar. IE created a noise cancelation system for Suhr that kept the same sound of their single coil pickups, and suggested that IE might do the same for me. I contacted IE, and they made a system for me hidden under the pick guard. NOW I AM COMPLETELY HUM FREE AND MY G&L SOUNDS EXACTLY THE SAME!!! I AM ECSTATIC! I don't know why this isn't an option with G&L.

[Darth Invader]

The guy that designed that contacted us just the other day and I referred him to Paul. I had a glance at the website and I think there was some kind of dummy coil you can stick on the back of the guitar, or route out something under the pickguard for it. If it's a dummy coil, there's always a trade-off with tone, as you're loading the pickup differently, but there could be some new twist to this setup. Anyway, I'll probably hear more about it from Paul soon. Could be really cool.

Dave

[tkeiningham]

I checked standard dummy coils, but that wasn't going to work for me (for the tone reasons you describe). In this system, a special coil is placed around the pickups (needs routing to hold the coil, which they did for me). There is an adjustment made to get the proper balance between noise cancellation and tone for each pickup. Honestly, I cannot hear any difference in tone at all. I could not be happier.

[sirmyghin]

My 2010 ASAT special just doesn't make noise, I don't understand all the people complaining about them.

[tkeiningham]

It's great that your system and environment doesn't create noise for your ASAT. But my Rockman system is "high gain," and there is no way it is going to work without noise cancellation. (If you have any doubt, check out Video 1 at http://www.perfectsoundrockrefurbs.com/ ... asics.html). After spending over $10,000 for my rack (in large part buying and having vintage Rockman equipment refurbished), I don't want my favorite guitar making this sound like a bunch of junk equipment. IMO the G&L ASAT Special is the best guitar money can buy, but I hold the same opinion of my rack...I would like them to play well together.

[Xochitl]

I haven't tried it but they have a nice reputation:ISP Decimator - http://www.isptechnologies.com/index.ph ... &Itemid=65

[tkeiningham]

I use an ISP Decimator ProRack G in my rack. It is fantastic and I highly recommend it. Unfortunately, without a noise cancellation coil in my ASAT, I had to gate the signal so much that all tone and sustain were gone. After adding the noise cancellation system (in combination with the ISP Decimator) I have no loss of tone or sustain, and when I am not playing (with the volume knob still on full) there is no sound whatsoever coming through my speakers. It is perfect!

[brianr0131]

EHX Hum Debugger should settle your issues. Put it first in your chain. I am new to single coils and I couldn't stand the hum at all. I have a 1986 ASAT and my new Legacy that I use the EHX HD with. I have no problems with it at all. YMMV

edit: just read your WHOLE post How much was the system you installed and how difficult was it to put in? Glad to hear you're all set!

[sirmyghin]

It's great that your system and environment doesn't create noise for your ASAT. But my Rockman system is "high gain," and there is no way it is going to work without noise cancellation. (If you have any doubt, check out Video 1 at http://www.perfectsoundrockrefurbs.com/ ... asics.html). After spending over $10,000 for my rack (in large part buying and having vintage Rockman equipment refurbished), I don't want my favorite guitar making this sound like a bunch of junk equipment. IMO the G&L ASAT Special is the best guitar money can buy, but I hold the same opinion of my rack...I would like them to play well together.

My amp is a Mesa Mark V, I have run a lot of gain and the result is the same as with my buckers. The only hum/noise I get is when I have my polytune plugged in daisy chain along with other pedals. ISP are indeed great pedals though.

[tkeiningham]

brianr0131: The system I used is a Large Coil Noise Canceling System designed by Ilitch Electronics (http://ilitchelectronics.com/cavityncs.htm). IE designed a custom system installed under my pickguard for $250. I did not, however, want to do the routing in the guitar myself (as it is in mint condition), so they agreed to do it for me for $125. As the pickguard covers everything, my G&L ASAT Special looks exactly the same, but now works and sounds beautifully with my system.

[sirmyghin]

so just a loop of wire, what is it connected to to just it the cannceling?

[tkeiningham]

Actually, I believe it is a large cooil of wire. The design, however, is patented, so I don't know much more than this.

Ilitch Chiliachiki (ilitch@ilitchelectronics.com) is the best person to speak with regarding the specifics of the system. He was really great to deal with, and I am certain he would be willing to speak with anyone who really wanted to know the details.

[ilitch]

Hello G&L forum

The wire you see on the first photo is only to locate the channel I need to machine and fit the Large Noise canceling coil (LNCC).
The actual LNCC is a low Impedance, Low inductance coil designed to pick a noise we need to be subtracted from the pickup regular noise.
The LNCC doesn't affect the tone and the level of the single coil pickup.We need both (all) single coil pickups on the guitar same polarity and same winding direction in term - same LNCC to be used for all pickups on the guitar.

If you have any additional questions - please post or email them and I will be glad to answer.

Regards,
ilitch

[sirmyghin]

I think I see it. First thing I notice, he made your pickups 3 conductor, aka separated the shield from the ground at the baseplate. The red wide is coming out of that coil and is spliced into that little PCB looking thing. Both pickup colds also go into it, then go to ground. I see 2 trim pots, meaning variable resistors and a cap. If I had to guess the system works like this.

The variable resistors are used to adjust the level of trebble lose (effectively it is a second tone knob) so is cutting the high end, but trying only to cut enough high end to lose the hum (which is higher frequency than any note, but you may lose a few overtones). So a second coil of wire, and a bit of a tone knob to home in on the rest. An interesting system to say the least. I can't help but feel you will be losing a bit of high end, thankfully your G&L has no shortage of that. This is my guess ofcourse, it may very well be tweaking with resonance of the system and such with capacitors.


Edit: The capacitors go through ground, not hot, but I think the same principals apply, even if I botched the explanation a bit. Fun brain problem. Very neat idea Illitch. I would be interesting in test driving it should I ever get a noisy guitar.

[tkeiningham]

I had a request via email to this forum to see the guitar after adding the large coil noise cancelling system. The basic question was "is there any visible change to the guitar." The answer is, "NO"...I would never to ANYTHING to my guitar that would alter its appearance or sound.

The channel for the coil is made under the pickguard (see picture below).



I took this photo today to show the appearance of my guitar now. It looks exactly the same as when I got it in 1995. [If there is any interest in the specifics on this guitar (no, it is NOT for sale at any price), it is registered in the database ... G042998.]

[brianr0131]

I may be ordering one of these. Looks like the routing could be done with a dremel even. How exact do those lines have to be. For example, does the "coil" fill that entire outline all the way around completely?

[tkeiningham]

The coil fits completely around this line. Ilitch Chiliachiki (ilitch@ilitchelectronics.com) apparently used a wire to design the best outline for the routing so that the coil would fit properly. As he did everything for mine, I would recommend that you contact him. He was extremely responsive to me...I feel certain that he will help you through the process should you do this yourself.

[brianr0131]

FYI I am ordering this. I will be doing a self install including the routing. Ilitch and I spoke about 10X through email and 3 times over the phone for quite a bit. He is extremely accommodating. I will report back when I have it installed fully. I will edit this post if I figure out how to post a mp3 because I made a "before" clip clean and dirty.

I will have to remove the 4 way switch I installed to achieve the noise free operation because series connections are apparently a "no no".

Edit: Try this link
http://soundcloud.com/brianr0131/asat-hum

[meowmix]

Looks cool.

So this thing works for all single coil guitars like my S500?

[brianr0131]

Looks cool.

So this thing works for all single coil guitars like my S500?

Yes as far as I know. I think you may need to change your middle pup if it's rwrp. Are your #2 and #4 positions hum cancelling?

What I have to do is flip the magnet on my neck pickup and reverse the leads to make both pups the same polarity and wind direction.

[meowmix]

Looks cool.

So this thing works for all single coil guitars like my S500?

Yes as far as I know. I think you may need to change your middle pup if it's rwrp. Are your #2 and #4 positions hum cancelling?

What I have to do is flip the magnet on my neck pickup and reverse the leads to make both pups the same polarity and wind direction.

They are cancelling. Now the more I think about it, it looks to be more of a hassle for what it is worth. Changing polarity or direction...mmmmm...no thanks.

[Thumbs]

Did you try shielding the pickguard with copper foil? Would an aluminum pickguard be a solution here? I'm asking cause I don't know the rig/set-up.
I do know that aluminum pickguards were used by Leo for decades; to cut the noise from single coil pickups quite successfully. Yes, I do have a bias, but I"m also curious about your solution. I love tech!

[brianr0131]

Did you try shielding the pickguard with copper foil? Would an aluminum pickguard be a solution here? I'm asking cause I don't know the rig/set-up.
I do know that aluminum pickguards were used by Leo for decades; to cut the noise from single coil pickups quite successfully. Yes, I do have a bias, but I"m also curious about your solution. I love tech!

I'm assuming this question is really for the OP. I'll take a crack at it anyway in case it was for me.

I sheilded my Tribute ASAT Classic to the hilt, even connecting the foiled cavities to one another etc forming a faraday cage. This did nothing to help my situation and I went with noiseless pup in there instead. I have florescent lights in my basement where I play so that's my main problem. But, even in other areas in my home the noise is pretty unbearable to me. I guess I may have "dirty" power.

But my ASAT with the Big MFDs is such a great sounding guitar that I can't make myself mess with the pickups. So, I bought a hum debugger and that makes it great. But, at high gain settings I can sense a good deal of changes in the tone. Nothing horrible, but it bothers me some.

Also, I have a small 5 watt silvertone that it would be nice to just plug into without a pedalboard etc and jam out with my ASAT. So when I learned of this solution I was intrigued. The owner of the company is really a great guy. He has the best communication that I have experienced in the "gear" industry. He even offered to skype with me to get the installation and setup correct. I think I will take him up on that when I recieve the item.

[brianr0131]

They are cancelling. Now the more I think about it, it looks to be more of a hassle for what it is worth. Changing polarity or direction...mmmmm...no thanks.

I hear ya. Maybe you'd be more like the OP and just send the guitar to him? I like to save money any way possible, as well as learn more about this kind of stuff. That's why I opted for a self install.