Lunch Report - Friday, March 25th

[Halowords]

First off, thanks for having me! It has been a lot of fun. You have given me both a warm welcome and some interesting conversation.

Second, because I'm bassackwards, I'll fill out my Intro in the proper section later. So you have that to look forward to (maybe).

Lunch: You know how you have certain foods you could practically eat all the time and feel like you'll never get sick of it? Well, one of those foods is in the cafeteria at work today. White Chicken Chili! So a bowl of White Chicken Chili (of which we're making a big pot from the exact recipe at home in the next few days) with a few packets of wheat crackers.

G&L Topic: How Important Are Strings & Picks to Your Style?
Sort of a two-parter. First, just what it says. How important are the type/gauge of strings and the style/thickness of pick to your playing style?

Second, how much range do you think a guitar like an ASAT, Legacy, Commanche, Invader, or electric guitars in general if you want to go that far, can change just from the range of strings? We can say from maybe round wound 8's all the way to flatwound 13's. Given the same guitar and the different settings you can change with an amp, guitar controls, effects, and reasonably appropriate pickups, how much range can you get just by changing the strings and adjusting the settings?

I ask in part because I have seen the same style of guitar (thinking specifically a Tele in this case) literally be used for Jazz, Rock, Country, and in at least two pretty heavy Metal bands that I know off the top of my head. Granted, that is not all just the strings, but still. Additionally, I wonder because I tend to favor the sound of thicker strings and going from 8's to 11's it seemed to make a big difference. However, I wonder as a counter point if that same chance would have been made with some judicious amp/guitar-tone-knob tweaking, so maybe they are not all that important compared to the electronics.

Non-G&L: Music Theory: What Role Does it Play For You?

Short and sweet for this one. How do you use or factor music theory into your playing (if at all). For the Poll, do you find knowing the basics (or advanced elements) of music theory opens up music for you with what is supposed to work, or restricts you with rules?

-Cheers

[sirmyghin]

Picks are pretty imperative, I play with agate (stone) picks. Strings are also there, I have found I prefer 10s to 9s, they 'stop' easier when muting. My ASAT got tighter and a bit bigger with 10s, or so I percieved. I use the ASAT for metal (Judas Priest, Iron Maiden, Dream THeatre), rock (Dire Straits, Cream), country, some jazzy stuff, and my experimenal stuff. Genres are playing styles that do not depend in any way on what guitar and amp you are using. It is how you accentuate, which notes you pick and such that defines the style. Like metal, for example, is aggressive and all attitude. Judas Priest and Iron Maiden did it on stock strats...

I use theory and I don't. I make chord progressions I like, then first leads to them. My current piece, which I just finished writing begins with an unorthodox progression (6 chords long) revolving around C Ionian. Then I have a second part (8 chord progression) which revolves first around arpeggios with a bit of liberty as they are 3 note chords, then I dissolved into octave displaced modal scales (trying to keep it relatively close to either G Ionian or C Ionian diatonically). The return the the first theme is met by shifting the leads to C lydian (still resolving on C, but F is now sharp).

Theory won't ever constrict you, setting 'boundaries' can improve your creativity. It will definitely change how you look at things though. If I want to really stretch myself I set STRINGENT boundaries. To me this will require more thought and process and in the end more creativity to make awesome. You leave yourself too free and you give a bit to be stale. That C lydian switch however was an accident, a very good one. If you are going to be doing something, you should at least be able to explain what you are doing. I had the attitude theory would be a cage when I was younger, but I have out grown it so to speak. The basics are important, the advanced stuff opens a lot of doors and thought processes. I always had the basics due to my big band time (tenor sax), but I recently started on advanced stuff. Very useful.

[Halowords]

FWIW, I find music theory helps give me structure to know what I'm doing AND recognize the basics when I see somebody else using things I know. Sometimes my mind can snag when somebody does something that breaks from the basics of what I know, or I THINK they're basically doing a scale or mode I recognize in whatever key, then they do something (add a # or b, switch keys) and I'm not quite sure what they are intending to do and thus do not quite know how to use it. Which is probably why I am going back to take more lessons. That said, it helps me "read" into what musicians are doing better, and providing a framework for doing what I want to do.

On the flip side, I DO find I often rely too much on strict (and linear) scale progression. Somewhat in chord progression, but I'm better at getting beyond a three-chord I-V-IV (or whatever) than I am breaking out of some variant of a Pentatonic Scale run. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but I do find when I just end up playing nothing but the Pentatonic Scale in my two or three favorite keys it gets a bit predictable (for me at least) and I find myself wanting more. That's my limitations in what I KNOW of music theory and the guitar in general, not necessarily any limitation in theory or whatnot (which really was not meant to be a super-strict stay-in-one-key/mode/scale straight jacket so much as from what I gather a way to communicate what works for musicians).

But again, that's why I'm reading a (rather thick) book on Jazz theory and going back to taking lessons once the allegedly awesome local guitar teacher guy bothers to call me back.

-Cheers

[sickbutnottired]

Picks and Strings..

They both matter a lot, but there is usually not just one way to get where you want to go. For picks on electric guitar, and I want something that doesn't affect tone that much, so I prefer to use basic nylon picks. Plus I go through hundreds so they gotta be cheap.

Strings matter a lot, they are a huge thing to feel, I don't like a light touch so I use .10 minimum. On some guitars getting heavier than that can add fullness and sustain, on others it doesn't matter as much. I play with a guy that Rocks an HSS strat, just owns it; and it sounds so much better when he plays it with huge strings--real cables. (which he always does, but he and I learned together so I know he hasn't always!)

Theory can only help. I have never learned something and then been like well I can't think about it the way I used to. I have only added skills. I find that doing some drills and stuff just makes me own the fretboard that much more, even if I end up not really adding that particular discipline to my playing. I enjoy noodling around and making chords out of scales and finding approaches to things, but i also just know a lot of shapes and know that they happen to sound pretty good and use them.

I am also trying to educate myself about timings and classic rhythms and fooling with stuff like that. Also working on playing just ahead or behind the beat on purpose. This is all driven by playing with another good guitarist--we can do so much more together, but we both really have to work at it!

[sirmyghin]

We interupt this lunch report for gratitous G&L porn. (couldn't resist).



This just in. check the general forums if you want more

[Halowords]

We interupt this lunch report for gratitous G&L porn. (couldn't resist).

Nice!

-Cheers

[nabo1er]

Hello everyone!

Lunch: Boring ham sandwich. But with real good goowey bread that sticks to your palate, Parisian white ham and a slice of proscuto, home made spread (mayo, dijon mustard, herbes de provence, saffran, maple syrup...), crispy lettuce and swiss cheese.
No wine.

Picks and strings. I have only been playing guitar for 3 years but I must have tried them all (PIcks that is). I have finally adopted the Jazz3 pick by Dunlop. It is small and I have much better control on how I want my fingers to touch/stroke the strings when I pick or strum. It has made a real difference on my sound as well. My first guitar is an Epi Dot Studio on which I added a Bigsby, giving it incredible sustain. The small pick allows me to soften the twang-iness of the sound when I need it to be muted.
I still have not found my set of strings yet. I know I prefer 9 or 10-46 but I have tried the depp frozen ones, coated, non coated, flat, oval, round, stainless, copper, iron, nickel, cat-gut etc. No cat-gut. Just a joke. I love cats.
It amazes me how each time I used a different set of strings I ended up with a different instrument, especially for the sounds of the 4th, 5th and 6th string. My Dot being a semi-hollow, bass heavy string sets were way too bassy and unbalanced. Completely on the oposite I had tried the Blue Steel and the guitar sounded like a lapsteel. So I am still looking for the perfect strings to give me that perfect tone.

Theory. As soon as I got serious about learning to play I structured my playing around mastering the i-v-iv progressions and its derivate. As I played piano, I had to shake its linear vision of chords to learn the 3 dimensional shapes of the guitar. Like you I feel confined by the boundaries of the limited chords and voices but I do not feel confident enough yet to go beyond that now. So yes, I find that theory helps me to visualize the guitar as a whole instrument as opposed to a set of strings and frets.

Bon apétit!

[sickbutnottired]

Sirmy, the pickguard is complete. It looks great! Nice Job!

[KennyE]

David, I knew you'd do a great job this. Didn't disappoint!

Lunch: Don't do lunch on Fridays. The wife is bringing a pizza home, so that'll be lunch/dinner later this afternoon. Ham, pineapple, onion ... yummy!

Strings and Picks: Picks, I use 1.12mm if I buy off the shelf. I had some picks made at Clayton for me. The image came right off, so he suggested some new material he was testing. Closest it came was 1.22mm, which you wouldn't think it too much. But it did take a week or so to get used to them. Plus, the material felt very strange. Almost soft to the touch while still being 1.22mm thick. I could feel a nappy sort of texture on the surface. But, got used to that fairly quickly. Strings - I like 10's, on everything. Brand? I prefer Pyramid, but can't always afford them. Cleartones get close. But recently my tech has been suggesting Ernie Ball. It's what he's put on after working on my guitars. Ones I don't really like are D'Addario anything or most Fender strings, name brand-wise.

Theory: Studied Jazz and Theory for 3 years. Really helped me out.

[westsideduck]

For many years I used one type of strings and one type of pick, Ernie Ball Slinkys and Fender thins for picks, then about 6 or 7 years ago I bought out the stock of a small mom and pop music store that was closing down, I tried lots of strings and lots of picks and guess what, I still use Ernie ball Slinkeys! The slinkeys to me sound the most natural or acoustic and let the tone of the guitar come through without masking the tone, they don't last long but they can be had pretty cheap if you buy in bulk as I do. I can't stand any of the coated strings for electric or acoustic, they really mask the pure tone of any guitar I've tried them on YUCK! Now for picks, that's a different story, I never realized what a difference in tone the pick material had and have three or four different styles I use regularly.





I play by ear and have no background in theory.

[blargfromouterspace]

I can't add any more to what sirmyghin has already said in the first response. He's hit the nail square on the head.


I'm probably the most boring person in the world for strings and picks. I use Ernie Ball 'regular' slinky strings, and Fender 'medium' celluloid picks. So it's regular and medium for me I've tried a lot them and these are what I like best.


Theory: I have to learn more. It really helps. What I know get's me by just fine, but there are times where I wish I could play jazz. Comping is something that still escapes me. Tedgreene.com is very helpful website I found recently.

Where is that quote in the poll from? It's very good.

[Halowords]

I can't add any more to what sirmyghin has already said in the first response. He's hit the nail square on the head.

Yeah, I thought there was some good stuff in there.

Theory: I have to learn more. It really helps. What I know get's me by just fine, but there are times where I wish I could play jazz. Comping is something that still escapes me. Tedgreene.com is very helpful website I found recently.

I'll check out the Tedgreene.com site. Part of my interest in Jazz and music theory is to add Jazz-y stuff, or just more interesting chords/phrasings/melodies/sounds to my general everyday playing, regardless of style. Not necessarily true Jazz Fusion, but just to add Jazz-based sounds or their great improvisational skills. Kind of a Modeski Martin & Wood meets Megadeth, Opeth, and Red Sparrowes for lunch sort of thing (or to be honest, probably what John Lennon and the Beatles did before I was even conceived, I gather they used some Jazz chords & phrasings in their stuff).

Where is that quote in the poll from? It's very good.

It's from a guy named Roy L. Smith. I don't know much about him, but the quote is pretty good.

-Cheers

[Boogie Bill]

I play around a little with picks, but mostly I use Dunlop 1.12mm--Gators, Tortex or Ultex. I like the Clayton Ultrem too, but they come a little thicker. Picks really do change your tone--even the thickness affects it. I like the smooth, mellow tone and the control I get from the picks mentioned above.

Strings make a difference too. I use D'Addario for most everything: acoustics get EXP or J-Series Phosphor Bronze in Light, Bluegrass or Medium gauge--depending on the guitar. G&L electrics get Fender Super Bullets in 10-46. Everything else is D'Addario XL in 9-42, 9-46, or 10-46.

I have several sets of Elixir Strings that I've won as door prizes at Taylor Roadshows, but I really don't care for Elixirs. I also like Martin SP Series, and I think a couple of my dreads have SP4200s on them right now.

I think your tele example is right on. I'd be a set of flatwounds with a wound 3rd on a Comanche would turn that guitar into a jazz machine.

I shudder to think of the possibilities!

Good job!

Bill

[cmguitar]

Picks,
I used Gibson tear drop medium celluloid jazz picks for years. In perfect Gibson fashion they quit making them. So I went on the great pick search and for a while used Dunlop Big Stubbies. I broke down a few months ago and ordered 6 dozen 347 Fender celluloid medium Teardrop jazz picks.Its what I am more comfortable with. I hold my pick sideways so I can get more finger on the strings anyway.
Strings ,
I use EB Regular Slinky or DiAddaro on my electric and DiAddaro on my Acoustics. I used Dean Markley in the late 70s but they seem different to me now. I have tried coated strings and I just don't like them.

Music theory,
I have picked up the violin when I was a kid and drums and learned theory but with the guitar I taught myself. even though what I learned on other instruments has applied to the guitar. Some I think I learned in music theory is by osmosis.

Chet

[darwinohm]

Thanks for LR duties this week. You have asked some great questions.

I am a day late on this because Ginny treated us to a Vince Gill concert last night. She lays some good surprises on me. It was awesome! He mentioned that he had lost 55 guitars in the Nashville flood last year.

Strings and picks. Most of us would be in trouble if we didn't have them. I like .73 picks and yes, picks make a world of difference for tone. My guess would be that the Duck has a lifetime supply unless he has a contest and gives them all away. I like D'Addario 10-46 for most of my guitars. I have some Teles strung in 9-42 as they are easy to bend. I have also used Hybrids (9-46). I buy them in packs of 10 and am not even thinking about coated strings. I have used Fender Bullets and they are okay. I have not tried 11s but am thinking about trying some.

Music theory is something most everyone could gain from. I studied music in college and it certainly helps for arranging and inversions which add to the complexity of what you are doing. It is good to see the new members participating in the lunch reports and thanks again for your participation this week!!!!-- Darwin

[westsideduck]

My guess would be that the Duck has a lifetime supply unless he has a contest and gives them all away.

You're right, I had a couple of guess the # of picks in the jar contests here before you joined, After figuring out which picks I liked best and putting them aside, I took care of all my buddies, sold a bunch of bags of 1 gross each on the bay (not shown) and then gave the rest away super cheap to a couple of young guy's starting starting up a small music store in the village.

[willross]

"westsideduck", any Herco Flex's or Pickboy "Edge" Carbon Nylons? If so, I'd buy a box of each...


Cheers,

Will

[westsideduck]

The're long gone Will!

[BadJaxx]

i'm a noob here so this is the first Lunch Report i've read...
during the work week i rarely do lunch, opting instead for a good breakfast at the cafeteria, sometimes a snack later...dinner when i get home...

while i understand the importance of theory for a lot of things, i don't use any...i'm too simple-minded, i guess...lol
i love the simple beautiful expression in a few nice chords..."Don't Let Me Down" by the Beatles is a good example and i tend to do stuff like that...

i prefer Ernie Ball 9s on most of my guitars, especially ones i'll use for lead...10s will usually be used on guitars that i mostly play rhythm on...that said, i don't change strings right away when i get a guitar so some still have D'addarios...
i use several different picks but like thin nylon ones mostly...i like the flexibility and being able to grip it up higher for soft chording and choke up on it for leads...
yep, thin strings and thin picks....i'm a 'thinner'...lol

[Dave_P]

Crazy busy at work last week so this is a bit late

Picks and strings: I never payed much attention to strings before I knew I liked 9's tried a bunch out and ended up with Ernie Ball's for a while, until the last thread on this topic got me experimenting. I found I like 10's better, still haven't tried 11's but it's on the list, and I've switched to DR Pure Blues. Ernie Ball's still sound good to me and I have a few sets to use up but right now the DR's are winning. I've been using Dunlop tortex picks for a while now, tried a few others not too long ago and came back to the tortex, I alternate between the orange .60mm and yellow .73mm.

Music theory: I played the clarinet back in elementary school and could sight read music, somewhere down the line that all got lost I also took a semester of music theory in college but that didn't stick with me either. What I know I've gotten by ear and through the internet more recently, that being said I've been feeling very limited lately and my lead work is shoddy at best, so I could probably use some lessons, or just some folks to jam with.

-Dave