Lunch Report - Monday March 14

[KennyE]

Hey All, Happy to be here as the Lunch Reporter this week. Thank you, Southpawguy for roping me into, er .. asking me to this. I've been lurking for a while, and Mr. SPG sorta made me come out of the woodwork. So, off we go!!

I'm hungry early. Thought I might just start it up and see what happens.

Lunch: I think it's going to be tuna, today. Probably with some mayo (yep, mayo) and some relish. Tuna salad, I guess. Crackers and maybe some Iced Tea. I'm stuck at home today, so may even watch the last episode of Shameless while eating lunch.

G&L Topic: Birdseye Maple vs Regular Maple necks.
I have a Legacy that I bought based solely on the neck. A beautiful Birdseye Maple. I’ll try to find a picture, but my photography skills rival my ice skating skills: I’m very good at watching ice skating. My question would be if anyone can tell the difference between good Northern Maple necks vs Birdseye Maple necks? Is it just aesthetics? The reason I ask is that I can’t keep that neck set. It keeps moving, requiring adjustment. And my guitar tech has mentioned seeing the same phenom with other BE Maple necks. Did we just run into some oddities? Or is there something going on here?

Non-G&L: And speaking of adjustments – how many here do their own guitar setups? If you are, did you learn it all by doing? Buy a book? And if you’re not – why not? As for me, I hate doing my own set ups. Not sure if it’s a confidence thing or what. But I never feel I get the optimum out of the guitar when I do my own set ups. I understand string height, setting intonation, etc. But I always think my guitars come back better after having someone else set them up. Kinda like painting my own house – hate doing that too!

[supereiv]

hey,
for me it's dinner time, so it was gnocchis and olives, spanish cheese + camembert, the end of my daughter's banana, and my wife and I drunk champagne for some reason (I DON'T drink champagne every day )

G&L topic : I always heard that the so called bird's eye maple was default in the wood structure that could weaken it... for what it worth. I don't care much for bird's eye myself.

Non G&L : I never set my guitars up myself, I know exactly what I want in a setup, but I know exactly how bad I am at hand labor !! And I'm pretty lucky as I know a really good luthier in Paris.

[yowhatsshakin]

Hi Kenny,

Thanks for picking up the LR duty. And you're off to a great start:

Bird's Eye Maple necks
I love these things. Here some pictures of a couple of BEM necks in my collection:


But you'll notice they're all Bi-Cut necks. Fortunately, I have not experienced any problems with any of these necks. So is yours also a Bi-Cut neck? I know G&L is not providing the same warranty on BEM necks as before the switch to the non-compression truss rod.

Setting up guitars
Doing it myself now. Was nervous like hell the first time I adjusted a neck. But with help of some of Dan Erlewine's books, I finally convinced myself I should be able to do it. Now I don't even think about it. Pull necks off, adjust necks, (tremolo) bridges, intonation, etc. whenever I want to. I never brought any my guitars to a respecetd luthier so I don;t know how well of a job I do in comparison. But ity is good enough for me. And sometimes it's easy to forget that 'perfection' is the greatest enemy of 'good-enough' in terms of return of invetsment (ROI)!

- Jos

Edit: fix image link after album was lost.

[KennyE]

Now that is one tasty looking birdseye maple right there. It truly is my favorite maple board. Especially for fretboards. I wouldn't have a clue mine is bi-cute or not. But, I did take a couple of pictures. Here's mine.

[yowhatsshakin]

Yours is also good looking. And you have a Bi-Cut neck too. Look at the pic of the back of your headstock and the one of the back of the neck. You clearly see the seam run lengthwise across it. The modern necks have the fingerboard 'sliced' off which is reattached after the non-compression truss rod is inserted.

Wonder why you have to readjust the neck so frequently. The Bi-Cut neck is supposed to be very resistant to warping, but I do not know about relief. And yes, it is less stable as e.g. quarter sawn necks but still many of the Limited Edition and special models released by G&L have (had) BEM necks. Among the necks shown above, you find a Leo-era ASAT III, Commemorative, George Fullerton Signature, 20th Anniversary, and Deluxe. If BEM is/was really that problematic, I would not understand why.

- Jos

[blargfromouterspace]

Hi Kenny.

From what I've gathered BE maple is a fault in the wood, and that's why it isn't covered along with the usual warranty. Apparently there are frequently (well, more frequently than rock maple) serious issues with it twisting or otherwise warping. I'm no expert on woods, my knowledge is based on anecdotal here-say. It's a shame because it does look nice!

I do my own setups. I've had a book - the Guitar Handbook by Ralph Denyer - since I started playing. It's a great book which covers virtually every aspect of the guitar - playing it, setting them up, live sound etc. A book is only ever a reference point, and so are measurements given on spec sheets. I do it all by feel and it's only with practice that I've got good at it. I used to own guitars with all sorts of bridges which was handy with learning how to set each of them up. The easiest, by far, is the standard t-type bridge. Floyd-Rose types, while not too difficult in principle are just a royal PITA. I say give it a shot and if you mess it up take it to a tech. Just do mess around with the truss rod too much and you'll be fine!

[KenC]

Welcome, Kenny!

My '98 ASAT has a very nice BEM neck. It's the best feeling neck of any of my G&Ls, but it is very sensitive to changes in string gauges and tunings. I had been playing jazz mediums before I got this guitar and strung her with 12s at first, but gradually I've backed off to 10s and she's gotten much happier with each change. If I had stuck with the 12s, I definitely would have needed to adjust the truss rod.

I've never tried my hand at guitar making, but from a furniture making perspective BEM is very difficult to work with. The grain tears out very easily when you shape or plane it. My experience working with maple has been that boards with erratic grain tend to warp pretty badly when the internal tension in the grain is released. I'm guessing that would carry over to guitar necks as well. My first attempt at building something out of maple ended with over half the stock fit for nothing but firewood.

My other G&Ls are all old ones, but the hard maple used for their necks was all very tight-grained. Two of the four are currently in alternate tunings, with absolutely no problems or need for adjustment.

Ken

[SouthpawGuy]

Hi Kenny,
Fancy meeting you here !

Birds eye maple: I have a couple of G&Ls with bem necks and I must say I really like them, I wouldn't say I prefer them over a regular neck but they do look excellent.









setting up guitars: I don't set up my own, if I did I'd be forever tinkering with them and they'd never play right !

[sam]

Happy Monday to ya!

Glad to see that you jumped in this week, you will see it will be fun.

G&L Topic: Birdseye Maple vs Regular Maple necks.
BEM necks... got what I consider a nice one on my ASAT Deluxe. Unfortunately unable to pull the pic right now. Can't say I like it any better than any other neck in my pile o' ASAT's, and do not think it is any less sturdy than other necks. I do like the way they look!

Non-G&L: And speaking of adjustments – how many here do their own guitar setups?
I try to do some basic stuff, but p-up changes and any heavy lifting is left for those that know more than me.

[astutzmann]

Great question

About 15 years ago, we put a new kitchen in to our home at the time (can you tell I like to move every few years and renovate). The kitchen we put in was birds eye maple cabinets, in a tint that looks like those necks. The cabinet maker told us that he could not warranty the work since the birds eye was so fragile. We needed 11 sheets of birds eye veneer and he ordered 25, we picked the best 11 and he sent the rest back, so the cabinets were STUNNING when they were done.

But alas, he was right, they didn't last and after a year or so, we started to see the veneer start to buckle and pull.

When I ordered my G&Ls I wondered about the birds eye, especially with their disclaimer on it, so I decided against it. I would be upset if such a beauty would go bad in time (I guess it could be replaced). Not sure if they do the birds eye in quarter sawn, that might be interesting to make the neck stronger.

SETUPs, I have taken them to my luthier and they come back perfect, but with the humidity issues here, it pisses me off that a perfect guitar starts to buzz after its here a few weeks. I'm not going to take it to a luthier every 3 months, so I am building my partscaster mostly to learn and I have ordered a book on guitar setups and I want to learn. Playing around with pickup heights etc, non issue, but intonation and setup has me nervous, but willing to try.

[darwinohm]

Kenny, finally back from a bout with the flu. Lunch has been liquids!

I like Birds Eye necks but I believe I prefer Flamed. I think that the neck has to be cured properly before the finish is applied. Here is a photo of one of mine.


and,


The guitar is 6 or 7 years old and the neck has been very stable.

Yes, I do my own setups and all my guitar work. It is a source of entertainment for me. I just went through my F100-Return last weekend and am very happy with the stability of the neck. It is one that I never have to adjust. Great start on the LRs.-- Darwin

[KennyE]

Wow!! There have been some beautiful necks shown here. Regardless of the "problem" I have with mine (and it's not all that bad), I think I'd still prefer to have BEM necks for maple. My thing is I have to have pretty guitars to make up for the lack of talent.

[sickbutnottired]

I think the birds eye maple necks are beautiful! Darwin, let's see a picture of a flame maple neck!

I don't have a preference as far as playability goes, for me I don't really want to pay much for a prettier neck. But sometimes you just fall in love with the whole package. I only have 1 BEM neck w/ rosewood fretboard!??? I guess some people prefer the feel of rosewood, but this guitar has pretty beefy frets, so I don't know--it just kinda seems like a waste to me not to have the maple showing on the fretboard with the beautiful wood.

I have had to adjust it a couple of times. But that is not unusual when you move a guitar from the midwest to MT. And I do all my own setup. If there is something I am unsure on, I read up or ask one of my more experienced friends about it.