Lunch Report - Monday February 21, 2011

[KenC]

First, thank-you to Bill for last week's wonderful discussions and the nomination to be this week's reporter!

I'm Ken, and I'll take a much overdue turn as lunch reporter. I was about to volunteer - really, I was - back in 2000, but things got too hectic due to school and an impending move and I kept putting it off. By the time the dust from the move had settled I had completely forgotten about the discussion page. Fast forward to last month, and a chance encounter with a fellow G&L enthusiast in a music shop brought me back to the list.

I recently moved from Ohio to Maryland for a new job. I'm living and working on the outskirts of Washington DC. Due to the terrible housing market in Ohio and not wanting to deal with two mortgages, I'm living as a "geographical bachelor" in a small apartment while my family stays behind in the house we're trying to sell in Cincinnati. Not an ideal situation, but at least I have a lot of vacation time built up and have been able to spend at least one week out of every month at home with the family. I decided to fill the down time when I'm in Maryland by working on my guitar playing, which has re-sparked a love for G&Ls.

Lunch:
It's going to be a bowl of pasta with shredded pork and feta that one of my neighbors in Cincinnati made. It was supposed to be dinner after driving from Ohio to Maryland yesterday, but freezing drizzle in Ohio and downpours the rest of the way turned an eight-hour drive into a twelve-hour nightmare. Visibility was down to fifty feet or less at several points in the Appalachian Mountains (they can be much better for hiking than for driving).

G&L Topic:
This is a follow up discussion from one of Bill's reports last week. G&L's highest price for a new instrument right now is a $5000 Jerry Cantrell artist model Rampage, which is a thing of beauty. The Signature model Rampage lists for $2000, and non-Tribute Rampages seem nearly unobtainable on the used market. Used Superhawks, on the other hand, seem to go for around $500, despite being identical to Rampages in all respects other than having a second pickup and a tone control. The original Rampages and Superhawks had the same length of production ('84-'91), and neither are "rarebirds". I've even seen postings on the web about Superhawk owners "converting" their instruments to Rampage specifications by removing the bridge pickup and and extra controls, filling in the cavities and repainting. Question of the Day: Aside from association with a major performer, what could drive two very similar and non-rarebird G&L models to opposite ends of the pricing spectrum?

Non-G&L Topic:
The thought of heavily modifying a Superhawk to make it look like a Rampage reminds me of a discussion on a Lunch Report from back around '99. It's every owner's prerogative to modify his or her guitars. I certainly went through my share of modifications in my pre-G&L days. A few were bad ideas poorly executed, but others worked out well and still bring me playing enjoyment decades later. My worst modding experience was as a teenager in the early 1980s. I had just purchased a mid-70s Fender Jazz Bass which had suffered serious abuse and wouldn't produce any sound. A thorough disassembling revealed the control and neck pickup cavities were packed full of beach sand (to this day I can't figure out how that could have happened). After buying a set of aftermarket pickups and a quick trip to Radio Shack for soldering supplies and new potentiometers, I was ready to correct the situation. I couldn't get the grounding wires to hold to the copper foil, so I asked my uncle (who knew nothing about guitars) for advice. He explained that I just wasn't heating the foil enough and offered to do the job for me. Fortunately I stuck around to watch and learn. His idea for heating the foils was to use a blowtorch, while they were still in the cavities. I was able to smother the flames with towel, and limited the charring to a minor amount of discoloration. Question of the Day: What was your worst experience (or the worst you've seen) with modifications? I'm making this the non G&L question in hopes that we won't hear anything about bandsaws and ASATs...

Ken

[KenC]

Correction to the lunch report: It was goat's milk cheese, not feta. I wouldn't have thought of pairing it with pork, but it was a very good match.

[RampageFan]

Hi Ken, very interesting topic today! I'm also from the Cincinnati area and understand full well about the housing market here. Good luck to you and your family, I hope it's a smooth transition for you!

I am a big fan of the Rampage. I have searched the internet almost daily since August looking for one, and I've only come across 1 that was in bad shape that sold for over $700. The Invader and Superhawk are basically the same guitar like you said and are easier to come by for better prices. I would love to know what the production numbers are for these guitars. I posted an Invader a while back that was in bad shape. The neck was perfect so I made an offer and ended up with the guitar. I stripped the finish and had to decide whether to mod it like a Rampage or try to restore it. I fell in love with the single coil MFD's, so I decided to restore it as it was originally intended. I really came to respect the build quality of G&L, so that was a huge factor in my decision. The only mod I made was I stripped the poly finish from the neck and finished it with Birchwood Casey Tru-oil like the original Rampages were made. I love the feel of the oiled, raw neck. That Invader is now my favorite guitar that I own. My USA Jackson hasn't been touched since I bought the Invader and a tribute Rampage . I am still searching for a Rampage and a Superhawk. There's just a lot of mojo in the Leo era superstrats!

Thanks,
Dave

[darwinohm]

Ken, thanks for doing the LR this week. It is good to hear that at least you have the job situation under control and the rest will eventually work out.

First of all I was shocked at the price of the JC Rampage. I had no idea that G&L had something in that price range. I have a F-100 Return edition that sells for less than $2000 and it is a quality build and wood. Artist models do not really influence me but I do own some. I have a Clapton Custom Shop Strat, A Mary Kay reissue Strat , and a Johnny Hiland PRS. I play the PRS and not the other two. The Mary Kay has appreciated considerably since I bought it and the Clapton is an OK investment. The Hiland is a cool guitar and plays very well.

I do not mod in general however I recently purchased an as new Bluesboy and installed an F Bigsby on it. This is a major, permanent mod. The Fender Bigsbys that I have done have all appreciated and are being played by pro musicians. Another was recently purchased by a collector. It has been 3 weeks since the BB mod and it is a sweet guitar and every time I play it I am impressed with the guitar. It is a bit heavy but it has tone and sustain. Darwin

[KenC]

Dave,

I've toyed with the idea of having the finish on my Superhawk repaired. The front is just what love in an old instrument - it's worn through in a couple of contact spots, but otherwise free of major dings. The back, on the other hand, has the worst case of belt buckle rash I've ever seen. There are a few major chips down to the wood which I can live with, but it also looks almost like somebody carved their initials with a car key and then tried to fix it by painting over the gouges. If I was certain I could match the paint and get a perfect blend, I would seriously consider having the back refinished just to repair the cosmetic damage.

Ken

[KenC]

Darwin,

Your ASAT looks great with the Bigsby. Does it affect the balance very much? I've never used one.

Thanks,

Ken

[blargfromouterspace]

Hi Ken, love the blowtorch story!

I can't think of anything beside performer association to put prices up. I admit that I didn't know that the sig. model Rampage sold for so much, that really is a lot of money.

My worse mod story is embarrassingly recent and for something which should have taken five minutes. When I received my custom order Bluesboy SH in 2009 the screw holding the top strap button on broke (the first time I put a strap on it, btw) and needed to be drilled out, so I did that. I decided to put locking strap buttons on it. My dad came into the shed to see what I was up to (I was at his house) and offered to help, so I got him to hold the body and drill bit whilst I searched for the new screws. He tested the size of the hole by putting the drill bit into it and letting go, releasing a 3mm bit into a 4mm hole, which fell into the cavity of the guitar. There is no other hole into the top cavity of a SHBB except the one for the strap button - not by the bridge or pickup routes. I set about shaking the guitar to try and get the bit to fall out, but that didn't work. I even bought six small 5x3mm neodynium (?) magnets which, when attached end-to-end, could be inserted into the hole in the hope of grabbing the bit to extract it. That didn't work either. I ended up having to drill a larger hole than I would have wanted to in a brand new guitar to remove the bit, and doweling it up.

That hurt to drill a 'big' hole in the new guitar. It didn't stop there though. The replacement buttons I got came with screws to install them and they got rounded when I tried to screw them in. I couldn't find any screws to fit them and the guitar went into its case for two whole months - I had end of year exams and was gigging a lot so didn't have the time or mental energy to deal with it. Eventually I sought advice at a great shop called 'Metro Bolts' where the guy gave me a couple of screws and told me to file the heads until they fit the button - brilliant!

The button itself covers all signs of the goof and I don't think about it either. Except sometimes.

[Ken Baker]

I had just purchased a mid-70s Fender Jazz Bass which had suffered serious abuse and wouldn't produce any sound. A thorough disassembling revealed the control and neck pickup cavities were packed full of beach sand (to this day I can't figure out how that could have happened). After buying a set of aftermarket pickups and a quick trip to Radio Shack for soldering supplies and new potentiometers, I was ready to correct the situation. I couldn't get the grounding wires to hold to the copper foil, so I asked my uncle (who knew nothing about guitars) for advice. He explained that I just wasn't heating the foil enough and offered to do the job for me. Fortunately I stuck around to watch and learn. His idea for heating the foils was to use a blowtorch, while they were still in the cavities. I was able to smother the flames with towel, and limited the charring to a minor amount of discoloration.

For next time... FWIW, I've soldered to copper shielding foil using the iron in the linked tutorial. It helps a LOT if the foil and the wire to be attached are clean and free of gunk. For work inside a guitar or bass, even a soldering gun is too big.

Question of the Day: What was your worst experience (or the worst you've seen) with modifications? I'm making this the non G&L question in hopes that we won't hear anything about bandsaws and ASATs...

I broke a coil wire on a humbucker made by EBMM. It happens. Sent it to Nordstrand, where Carey repaired it very quickly and inexpensively.

Ken...

[zapcosongs]

Hey Ken. Very glad you circled back to this place.

I don't have much to contribute with respect to your questions of the day. I don't modify guitars (if they're not pretty much as I want them, I don't buy them) and I have no personal familiarity with the Rampage or Superhawk models. I will say that if someone offered me one, I'd take the 'Hawk any day of the week.

I'm actually writing to say that I'm also here in Maryland, and I used to go to school near Cinci, so hey, what are the chances?
Also, our very own Bassman lives in the area as well, and his band RAGS is playing in Germantown this weekend if you're interested. I think he posted details in the Public Service Announcements section here. I'm going to try to stop in. Maybe we'll meet you soon?! Anyhow, nice start!
- ed

[Boogie Bill]

I'm not one for modifying my guitars; and I really don't liek to buy a guitar that has been modified. Here's pretty much the total mods I've done over the years.

I did have a Leo Quan Badass bridge installed on the 1975 LP '55 Special Reissue I had, and it turned out well; professionally done. I experimented with adding a preamp to my 1960 Strat, a popular mod back in the 1970s; but returned the guitar to it's original form.

I've installed some pickups and RS volume and tone pot kits; and some aluminum tailpieces to my current Les Pauls, but nothing major. Gibsons always get Schaller Strap Locks and usually metal jackplates, too.

I suppose the biggest mod was to a Music Man Sabre I bought from a guy in California back in 1985. I vacationing with my girlfriend at Disneyland and heard of a guy who had MM parts from the end of business auction. He assembled a complete guitar for me. I had the guitar for a few months, and then had luthier Mike Lull from Bellevue, Washigton, add a third pickup and rewire the guitar with a 5-way switch. Mike had a set of Sabre pickups that he'd removed from another customer's guitar. The work looks factory, and was an awesome and very functional mod.

I've seen many hack jobs over the years, and they make me cringe. I' just looked at a very nice Gibson ES-335, that had a Graph Tech Ghost piezo system installed, and now it's for sale with the Ghost ripped out, leaving six holes under the bridge and two holes in the top that were for mini-toggles. Good price, but I know those holes would drive me crazy! I passed.

Bill

[Ken Baker]

Hey Ken. Very glad you circled back to this place.

Who? Me? I stop by daily looking for bass stuff. I don't catch 'em all, but I try.

Thanks!

Ken...

[yowhatsshakin]

Welcome back Ken. I hope you can solve your residency conundrum soon.

Question of the Day: Aside from association with a major performer, what could drive two very similar and non-rarebird G&L models to opposite ends of the pricing spectrum?

Good question. Can be a lot of things, artist association only being one of them. Other causes can be number of instrument produced coupled with some nifty thing. That thing can be sonic or otherwise (think a Leo signature in the neck pocket). But for the most part it is popularity. On a forum like this it is demonstrated by the number of people praising certain models whereas other models are hardly ever mentioned. For me, models like the Broadcaster, G-200, and SC's come to mind. Especially the latter have seen a resurgence ever since the SC-2 was reintroduced. Also the Cavalier seems to make a comeback. But one should also be aware that the popularity can be driven up by hype.

Question of the Day: What was your worst experience (or the worst you've seen) with modifications?

[/quote]
I also fall in the non-modify category. Certainly after I 'modified' a friends guitar by putting Schallers on his. The holes had to be drilled out. I planned to drill the holes from the back. On the first hole, I had forgotten to clamp a piece of wood to the front of the headstock. So when the drill bit came out, it splintered away part of the veneer.

- Jos

[cmguitar]

Ken,
I have never been on signature models. I sure don't feel the price of a signature model is worth it. Look at Gibson a signature model for everything.Overkill.
I am not going to buy a just say A Buddy Guy Cry Baby when a Regular Cry Baby will do just as good.
I am glad G&L is picky about whose name they put on it and they have some type of functionality that is different from the standard model. The JC model is out of my price range.
With me saying that. I not saying if I run across a signature model guitar I wouldn't get it if I liked it.

On modifying guitars my main guitars are stock My ASAT III,Legacy,Fender Fat Strat Tx Spl. and my flattops.
I have a Fernandes LE1 I rewired and put a Wilkerson Tremolo and Fender 57/62 pickups in it. A Applause/Kaman GTX 20 I completely rewired made it a HSS have a GFS PAF in bridge and Fender Texas Specials in the middle and bridge pickups.
I got a Tokai TST 62 I have been procrastinating the longest to restore I am going to put RD single coils in it. The tuners and the tremolo are going to stay stock.
I did those for the operation of the guitars.
About 30 plus years ago I had a 72 Gibson Les Paul Deluxe I just trashed!!!
I put Dimazrio Super Distortions and Dual Sound In, Grover tuners on it. Back then I did not have the respect for a instrument I do now. I was young and stupid. When I got rid of it.It had a bad case of belt rash, the finish was peeling off the neck and the truss rod was frozen. Where ever that guitar is now I hope they somewhat restored it.

Chet

[KenC]

Jamie,

That must have been a horrible feeling. One of the reasons I don't play my acoustic much anymore is the frustration of having to turn it upside down and shake the pick out of the soundhole every five minutes. I can't imagine facing a drill bit inside a chambered body.

Ken

[KenC]

Thanks Ken B. for the info on soldering techniques. I've stayed away from it since the burning bass experience.

I generally don't modify guitars any more, and when I do I pay a good guitar tech to do the work. The only mods I've done recently were to a 1970s Japanese Strat copy (replacing tuners that were no longer functioning) and modifying the wiring on an Epiphone Genesis. The Epiphone is essentially a solid mahogany Les Paul, minus one tone control and with the jack on the front where the second tone control would be on an LP (trivia - this was the last electric guitar model Epiphone produced as a separate entity from Gibson). This model has a bad tendency toward having the jack pull out, splintering the top. Since I didn't want to risk that happening, and the electronics had already been modified by a previous owner, I had the jack moved to the side (about where it is on an ASAT) and a second tone pot installed to fill the old jack hole. I have no regrets about that mod.

I have to say I wouldn't consider modifying any of my G&Ls. There's nothing I could add to any of them that would improve playability or sound. The only change I've made to one has been having the original pick-ups reinstalled in the Superhawk (fortunately they were with the instrument when I bought it). It sounded great with the aftermarket pickups that were on it,but it just felt right putting it back to original specs.

Ken