Anyone using non G&L pickups in an S-500?

[mlauden]

I have a stock 2009 S-500 (Mahogany body with rosewood fretboard) and was wondering if anyone has (or tried) other pickups in their S-500 with the same wiring (i.e., same pots and switches)? I love the sound of the MFD pickups in my ASAT Classic, but find the S-500 to be a bit shrill and lifeless in the 2 and 4 positions (compared to a standard Strat).

I'd love your opinions. I'm thinking I might change the pickups in my S-500, or look for a Legacy instead (I love the playability and feel of my G&L guitars much better than my Fender Strat).

Thanks!
Mark

[Craig]

I have a stock 2009 S-500 (Mahogany body with rosewood fretboard) and was wondering if anyone has (or tried) other pickups in their S-500 with the same wiring (i.e., same pots and switches)? I love the sound of the MFD pickups in my ASAT Classic, but find the S-500 to be a bit shrill and lifeless in the 2 and 4 positions (compared to a standard Strat).

I'd love your opinions. I'm thinking I might change the pickups in my S-500, or look for a Legacy instead (I love the playability and feel of my G&L guitars much better than my Fender Strat).

Thanks!
Mark

You mention positions 2 and 4, is that with the expander switch on or off? See What is the expander switch used on many of the models?
if you are not familiar with the expander switch.

Before doing any pickup swapping, I'd suggest reading this post: Comanches For Dummies Redux by BoogieBill.

Hope this helps.

[sirmyghin]

You mention positions 2 and 4, is that with the expander switch on or off? See What is the expander switch used on many of the models?
if you are not familiar with the expander switch.

That is a really weird switch. I suppose it is to get minimum movements required from position to position but it is effective a bridge add AND a neck add relative to where the 5 way is.

[mlauden]

Thanks Craig. By positions 2 and 4 I mean in standard mode (bridge/Mid and Neck/Mid).

[Philby]

I love the sound of the MFD pickups in my ASAT Classic, but find the S-500 to be a bit shrill and lifeless in the 2 and 4 positions (compared to a standard Strat).

Interesting topic and I completey agree with the quote. Unfortunately I can't help you but will be keeping a close eye on the responses. I have a real love/hate relationship with my S-500 MFD's. I've tried adjusting them up/down and have experimented with cap values etc. but have come to the following conclusions - the neck pickup is fantastic, the mid pickup is average and the bridge pickup is meh. The best 'in-between' sound IMHO is the neck-bridge combo using the expander switch. It really does sound like a good tele and has some of the sparkle missing from positions 2 and 4.

I'd like to hear the MFD pickups with standard strat electronics. I'm suspicious of whether the PTB wiring contributes to some of the qualities I don't like in the S-500 sound.

[Chuckfan]

Wow. I am going thru the exact same dilemma. I was always a Fender Strat player. For 15 years my main guitar was a 1993 Am stnd strat. Inexplicably, I sold it and bought a 2000 USA hard tail S-500. I've been trying to like the pickups but am realizing that I am just in love with a classic strat sound. Here's the problem though. I had the s-500 for sale but have changed my mind. The reason is simple. I've been to several music stores the past 2 weeks and have played just about every Strat on the wall...from MIM to custom shop and they all felt inferior in overall build quality to the G&L. They all left me feeling cold. I never felt this way about Fender's until I got a G&L. So now I am wondering if I should just swap PUPS...maybe throw a nice set of Fralins in there. This is a good thread....I second the thread starter's question....has anyone done this with good success and if so, what adjustments had to me made as far as electronics/pot values ect. and how is the PTB system affected if at all.

I just can't see dropping a grand on an American Standard strat...it feels like a toy compared to my G&L. And the Classic Vibe Strats don't feel 600 bucks worse......If I want a Fender feel I'll just get one of those.

[SouthpawGuy]

I found the same with my S500, great for rock or blues but those in between positions on a clean sound were a bit lifeless, especially compared to the alnico Vs' in a Legacy or Strat. My solution was to lower the pickups right down, with the bass side further away from the strings than the treble side. That brought back a lot of of the "quack" in positions 2 and 4. Rolling off the bass on the PTB also thins the sound out, I usually leave mine on 10 though.

[Lazer]

Very interesting discussion. I have been playing a 2004 mahogany S-500 for over 3 years now.
If it is something it's definately not it's shrill. Mellow but not lifeless, a lot more responsive than
any strat I ever played. I am very picky and I hate over bright guitars. I can't stand a standard Tele.
Single coils I almost never run on their own. The S-500 basically only see the 2 and 4. position,
mostly 4. The "expander" I find kind of useless, never use it. One of theese days I may turn it
into something useful.

If one expect strat tones, get one. I get a real nice mellow tone (compared to a strat).
It doesn't do soaring lead tones well, then again I haven't found any G&L that does.
I have yet to explore one with humbuckers.

I think the difference is that the MFD's do not colour the tone so much, i'ts a truer
represention of the guitar than an old alnico pup's.

Cheers
L-zr

[choppydave]

I'm also interested in this thread quite a bit. I agree with Philby's run down of the three pickups, ending with the bridge being "meh". I've had my S-500 for one year, and I still haven't fallen in love with the pickups. I have totally fallen in love with the build quality, feel, and even the expander switch, but there is something strange about the MFD's that I haven't figured out.

As a less open-ended version of the question - has any one taken the Legacy Alnico's and put them in an S-500? Am I right in saying that the only two differences in the two guitars are the pickups and the expander? So switching out pickups might solve the one concern that several in this thread seem to share?

thanks,
dave

[Philby]

As a less open-ended version of the question - has any one taken the Legacy Alnico's and put them in an S-500?

Good question ChoppyDave. I have a spare set of Legacy p'ups that came with my S-500. Perhaps the previous owner didn't like MFD's, but didn't like the Legacy alnicos either, so he put the MFD's back in.

Anyway, I'll try to pop the Legacy p'ups in this weekend and report back.

I must concur with your assessment of the S-500. I love everything else about mine, just not sure about the MFD's at this point.

[offplanetfilms]

Besides the pickups and expander switch, is there any differences between an S-500 and a Legacy otherwise?

[Craig]

Besides the pickups and expander switch, is there any differences between an S-500 and a Legacy otherwise?

Yes, there is another cap on the bass cut pot on the S-500.



Hope this helps.

[Philby]

Yes, there is another cap on the bass cut pot on the S-500.

What does the additional cap do Craig?

[Boogie Bill]

Okay, I'll play.

First thanks to Craig. It is SO cool to be quoted by not only another member, but by the administration, too! My ego has just been boosted!

I think many of the points I made with the "Comanche For Dummies" post applies to the S-500. And a lot of the "mental" aspects apply to any guitar you might be having problems with. Sometimes, it's YOU who is the problem, and not the guitar. If YOU is the problem, changing the guitar won't really help. I'm trying to go from a mental place of, "This SUCKS!", to, "Hmm, this isn't what I expected. Now how can I use it to my advantage?"

Couple of reminders. If using a tube amp, you may ned to swap out your V1 preamp tube. MFD are merciless, and will expose any flaw in that input tube. It has to be noise-free, non-microphonic, super smooth without harshness, and it has to be able to handle the high output. Experiment.

I have my bridge pickup fairly high, and graduate the bridge and middle pickups down from there. I start with the PTB controls normalled to V-7, T-10 and B-5 on the guitar, and THEN I set my amp controls. From here, rolling down the T will give me dark, jazzy tones. Rolling up the B will add more "punch" to solos. I typically set my amp a little darker than I would for my Legacys. You can use a graphic EQ to tame some of the 2K (say -3 to 6dB) and it will take out some of the "screech", yet leave the "air".

Try stainless steel strings...or pure nickel. I found that with stainless steel strings on the Comanches, I could drop the treble on the amp even more for really deep and complex mid-range tones--a VERY powerful tone. Pure nickel might have the smoothness you want, without the need to adjust your amp. Even picks make a difference: I'm always shocked at how much brighter a celluloid pick sounds compared to the Dunlop 1.14 Gators, Tortex or Ultex picks I normally use. The gauge of the pick makes a difference, too.

If you're thinking about just swapping out the bridge pickup, I can tell you that I have an S-500 with a Duncan JB, Jr. in it that was installed by the previous owner It's a nice, thick, rock and roll sounding pickup; but it really has trouble keeping up with the output of the neck and middle MFDs, and they are almost all the way down. (And ZERO quack from Position #2!) One of these days when I'm feeling better, that original bridge MFD is going back into that guitar.

I'll admit, my Number One is a Legacy, and I have nine of them. But I have two Comanches, two S-500s and two Legacy Specials. And probably, the S-500s get played the least; mostly due to the type of band that I'm in, and my owning several 2HB guitars that give me thicker tones. I often gig with a Legacy, Legacy Special, Les Paul or 335, Taylor acoustic, 5-string banjo, DanElectro Innuendo electric 12-string, and even one of my Takamine acoustic-electric 12-strings. It can get a little crowded...hell, it's INSANE (LOL!), but it is fun. If I can only take ONE guitar, the S-500 and the Comanche are my best options.

When I'm using one guitar, the S-500 can do the job. The S-500 is one of my favorite guitars to take to a jam session. It is a killer guitar for agressive, Texas roadhouse Blooze. I like is for some of the fusion-type jazz things I've done, as it has a clear voice that really sings with distortion--keeping that clarity--totally mud-free. And in a jam session, I may be overwhelmed by player who can "draw" faster than I can, but I am never going to be out-gunned with my S-500. The S-500 has a powerful tone.

I could have swapped in new pickups into the S-500 or into my Comanches and that would have been easy. But it was SO rewarding to be able to figure out these guitars and learn what they could do for me. It was all about learning how to give up a lot of my expectations, and learing how to make the guitars work for me. Like I said, a lot of it was internal--not in the guitar. YMMV. And in the process, I've developed something I think unique to me. I keep saying these are not run-of-the-mill guitars--they are blank slates that allow you to create your own signature tones. I've heard Will Ray on a Commanche, and I have a totally different tone than he does, and it works for me.

When I play the S-500s, I don't sound like Eric, Jimi, Stevie Ray, Jeff, Ritchie, David or anyone else that plays a Strat. I sound like me.

And that's where the joy really is.

Bill

[Chuckfan]

Well...I took my s-500 to band rehearsal tonight which was the first time I've played it in a live band situation and I have concluded that this thing is a rock and roll machine! Sure, it doesn't chime exactly like a strat but it screams with thick rock tones. There is pure magic in the PTB system and I agree with Boogie Bill that it's an individualistic guitar that will allow you to be you...to shape YOUR tone. I have my eye on a nice lake placid blue Legacy in the local craigslist but I have determined this S-500 is a keeper...as is...stock MFD's and all.

[mlauden]

Boogie Bill - I appreciate the insight. Very true. I often get caught up in trying to emulate my favorite guitarist at the time instead of being original. When I play live (mostly at church and occasionally with another band) the S-500 seldom lets me down. It's usually when I'm practicing at home that I begin to over-think everything (which, as you pointed out, is when my *amp* is not at it's best).

Thanks for the kick in the rear!

[fendertweed]

I have 3 Joe Bardens in my S-500. I have more G&Ls than any other brand but the MFDs in the S-500 are not my favorite G&L pickup (prefer large MFDs & Zs)... they're good, to be sure, but not my favorite.

So I put 3 Bardens in and it is fantastic, with a bit more clean to it than the stock pickups but lots of power, too.

cheers,
Jon

[zedsnotdead]

Could it be out-of-phase signal?
I mean, i had the same problem when i changed bridge pickup to a dimarzio, position 4 got somehow "weaker"...
if it's out-of-phase, a simple procedure will solve the problem. It solved mine and now pos 4 bites hard

[Scotti]

I am thinking of swapping out the stock pickups in my Legacy Deluxe HSS.
I had a custom strat a couple years back and it had Suhr pickups in it.
I couldn't believe the difference after removing the stock Fender pickups, it really brought out extra dynamics and life to my tone. I love my Legacy and playing live it howls, its more at recording and jamming volume that I notice a little lack of that open chimey sound.

I agree that these things are not Fenders and that is great, I just want to see if I get a noticeable improvement at lower levels.

[choppydave]

I wanted to give a quick update to my MFD journey referenced earlier in this thread. This forum has been super-helpful in regards to all things G&L, and the Boogie Bill posts continue to be a source of learning (and resultant tweaking) in my tone quest.

I used two inputs to get out of my MFD funk. The first was the G&L YouTube vid by Steve Grom comparing the Legacy vs S-500 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fVR7zt08SK4). Listening to this once again yielded the phrase "the MFD is gonna be a little bit darker sounding, a little bit more low end...and the alnico will tend to be a little brighter".

The second input came from the Boogie Bill MFD Bible (http://www.guitarsbyleo.com/gldp/messages/7648.php3), where I focused on this specific line: "Now set the amp for best tone in all positions. Do this by setting the bridge pickup tone with the maximum amount of TREBLE on the amp that you'll need for that pickup with the PTB controls NORMALLED."

Putting these together, I realized that I had done a good job of having the "normalled" PTB controls per Boogie Bill's guidance, but somehow over the last few months I had lost sight of the fact that my amp might not have been set optimally, specifically, I needed to take a look at my treble settings on the amp. This yielded the "Duh!" moment that said that I probably needed to roll up the treble on my amp in order to counteract the "dark" tendency of the MFD. That allowed me to get a sharper attack (via the high end frequencies), which I think is what allows the MFD to get into the "quack" territory that the alnico excels at.

I play a Princeton Reverb Reissue and I had the Treble around 4, while the Bass was up around 6 or 7. I had this setting either due to the Pro Guitar Shop video, or my four year old had moved things around and I never inspected them. :) In the case of the Pro Guitar Shop video, he had these settings with a Tele and Strat...definitely different animals than the S-500, and that realization dovetails with the difference described by Steve Grom in the G&L video.

Anyway, just wanted to share two references out there that allowed me to get an improved and more pleasing "Strat-like but definitely uniquely S-500" tone. I'm sure future tweaks are needed as well, but this was the step I needed to get back on track.

thanks,
dave